Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Constantine
Because he's Constantine

RVS is over.

Man, already missed RVS
If so, then I guess I'll just
UNVOTE:
Interesting how Constantine gives two separate reasons for joining the game in 34 an 36. Not saying they both can't be true, but this switch is weird.

Why did you unvote directly before providing a reason to be suspicious of Constantine? Your 'random' vote wasn't exactly a bad one.

Alright, never mind, acryon's town, good. Questions for acryon:

1. Can you explain what the deal with Pastro and his getting banned and how that's relevant is? Also, the fact that you're predicting his replacement's play is going to nullify it, you know that.
2. Do you not like the vote on BMWS because you're townreading him for the townslip, or otherwise?
3. On C+A, I think it's generally agreeable that since BMWS (AFAIK) isn't exactly a conniving Machiavelli, his slip is very good proof that he's not scum with C+A. So wouldn't that make pointing out a possible townslip indeed pro-town? (on a sidenote, I think I'm going to be fairly good at reading BMWS this game, considering I know the guy and his style of speech/writing)
4. Can't agree on texcat, very reminiscent of newbtown. It looks like she just didn't want to participate or analyse the bickering between me, C+A, and Constantine. Other than us 3, there wasn't really that much content.

[Mathdino]

I did not intend to quote that. Dunno what's up with the quoting nonsense.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Will do wake
You know, I often get this feeling scum jump up on the slightest mistakes.
Acyron and that other guy jumping on and saying I'm wrong, look like they're seeking cheap town cred.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Why was Pastro kicked?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I would like to hear more from Aneninen now that Day One has officially started. He did post a picture of a pigeon. I think his asking to be in the bloc may have been some joke or comment that I didn't quite get.

I think Aneinen was joking. Some people reacted a little to hard for a pre-game interaction.

[copper223]

@Dino

copper seems pretty good at face value, 137 is cool. 138, a townread on texcat for agreeing, is kinda weird to me. So I'm gonna go with a null but not due to lack of info.

The town tell on him is not for agreeing, it's for thinking along the same lines so probably from a town prospective.

@Acryon

copper223 - I don't like the vote on BMWS, and jumping on that seems a little opportunistic, so this is my first real scum-vibe. The reads-list all seemed pretty legitimate otherwise.

How is that vote opportunistic when most of the later comments I have seen follow the: it was a tonwslip line? The main reason for voting was the vote/unvote posts he made when seeing 1 gram of pressure, I find opportunistic that you don't mention that in your read of BMWS:

blindmewithscience - Town for now because of the town-slip and subsequent questioning about why it was a townslip.

toghether with stating you basically got a scumvibe from one comment but like the rest of the page from me it makes me wonder if you have a vested interest in BMWS getting town red. Switching to null and depending on how the replacement to Pastro comes into the game could change again to leaning scum.

[theelkspeaks]

Why was Pastro kicked?

Pastro was sitebanned for his behavior elsewhere.

[theelkspeaks]

Vote Count 1.3
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Aneninen (2)

- Mathdino, Pastro

Mathdino (2)

- St. Constantine the Hermit, Cane + Able

copper223 (1)

- texcat

Pastro (2)

- acryon, Gravity

blindmewithscience (1)

- copper223

[Cane + Able]

Generally not at all, but something tells me there is a higher chance a person with 10 posts on this site would show consistent character throughout those 10 than others with much more. It's hard to articulate exactly what I am trying to say regarding it, but if you look at his posts this game, and his character outside, it becomes pretty clear this is a person coming in who is bad at mafia. His posts this game are indicative of scum who is bad at mafia.

He might just be bad period, including bad town.

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

[Cane + Able]

acryon, I hate shit logic and will attack it at every turn.

More on this later.

-House

[Aneninen]

I'll catch up soon.
However, I've been looking into the game every now and then. I thought it was obvious that I'd been joking in my post about "joining the town block".
Mostly because so far I've seen the following: town blocks are either forming themselves in a kind of natural way or they aren't forming at all.
I don't think a town block which consists of players who want to join would be a good idea. We should try to get our own reads. After all, the only player whom we can trust are – ourselves.

[acryon]

Alright, never mind, acryon's town, good. Questions for acryon:

1. Can you explain what the deal with Pastro and his getting banned and how that's relevant is? Also, the fact that you're predicting his replacement's play is going to nullify it, you know that.
2. Do you not like the vote on BMWS because you're townreading him for the townslip, or otherwise?
3. On C+A, I think it's generally agreeable that since BMWS (AFAIK) isn't exactly a conniving Machiavelli, his slip is very good proof that he's not scum with C+A. So wouldn't that make pointing out a possible townslip indeed pro-town? (on a sidenote, I think I'm going to be fairly good at reading BMWS this game, considering I know the guy and his style of speech/writing)
4. Can't agree on texcat, very reminiscent of newbtown. It looks like she just didn't want to participate or analyse the bickering between me, C+A, and Constantine. Other than us 3, there wasn't really that much content.

1. I think I've already explained it the best I could. Basically, read my initial reasons for not liking Pastro. Then, when I looked through his other posts on this site, I got a very strong gut feeling that he was doing exactly what I thought he was, and the character of those other posts fit with what I was feeling. I'm not telling anyone to jump on it; I'm just explaining how I feel about Pastro.
2. The townslip.
3. Yes and I admitted that it was pro-town. That being said, to be good scum you need to do some pro-town things sometimes.
4. I can definitely see where you're coming from there. It was only 1 post, so it was going to be a pretty loose read either way.

Will do wake
You know, I often get this feeling scum jump up on the slightest mistakes.
Acyron and that other guy jumping on and saying I'm wrong, look like they're seeking cheap town cred.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that town-blocs are bad.


@copper: I didn't mention the vote/unvote from BMWS because it was wholly null to me.

Most of the reads I posted were of course very early, so there shouldn't be a ton of weight put on them, nor my conclusions just yet. They have been very useful for creating discussion though, which is what I was hoping for.

Generally not at all, but something tells me there is a higher chance a person with 10 posts on this site would show consistent character throughout those 10 than others with much more. It's hard to articulate exactly what I am trying to say regarding it, but if you look at his posts this game, and his character outside, it becomes pretty clear this is a person coming in who is bad at mafia. His posts this game are indicative of scum who is bad at mafia.

He might just be bad period, including bad town.

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

No. Why would that be inappropriate? Unless he mentioned elsewhere something about the game, which he certainly didn't.

acryon, I hate shit logic and will attack it at every turn.

More on this later.

-House

There is a difference between attacking bad logic (which I encourage and agree with), and trying to manipulate the town by trying to force it into your mold of play, and I think you're closer to the latter than the former.

[acryon]

Here is a list of times already where C+B has tried (in some form) to tell everyone how they need to play the game. And there were more in the block near the end, but I got tired.

Scum tends to pay attention to pre/early game happenings for scheming and reputation building purposes.

Town doesn't have much to do pre-game and may miss out on details.

A bit early for associative tells.

-House

Never too early for townslip because those are often done in a single derp post.

Associative tells develop over time. Everyone will be interacting in interesting ways until we feel each other out.

BMWS isn't being lynched today, and quite likely not tomorrow unless he derps pretty hard.

-House

Manipulating a player's playstyle to fuel drama and trying to fabricate associative tells on the first page of the first day is pretty blatant scum play.

VOTE: Mathdino

Discussion of ongoing games is not game content. It should be taken directly to the game or list mods.

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods

to avoid this very scenario

.

Cease discussing ongoing games

now

.

No. Outside actions are not alignment indicative.

-House (past three C&A posts)

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

And for that last post, I'll just point you to a post you should be plenty familiar with:

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods to avoid this very scenario.

[Cane + Able]

acryon, I hate shit logic and will attack it at every turn.

More on this later.

-House

There is a difference between attacking bad logic (which I encourage and agree with), and trying to manipulate the town by trying to force it into your mold of play, and I think you're closer to the latter than the former.

An easy mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless. I was attacking Mathdino for using terribad logic.

Observe:

Playerlist + notreallygood = not scum together
Playerlist + Newbie = not scum together
Playerlist + Gravity = not scum together
Playerlist + CultivationTheory = not scum together
Playerlist + copper223 = not scum together
Playerlist + Cane & Able = not scum together
Playerlist + acryon = not scum together
Playerlist + Aneninen = not scum together
Playerlist + Mathdino = not scum together
Playerlist + blindmewithscience = not scum together
Playerlist + Pastro = not scum together
Playerlist + texcat = not scum together
Playerlist + St Constantine = not scum together

The same can be done with any other player in the game. All have the same objective 75% accuracy rating before you bother trying to get a read on a single player. And it doesn't even need the irrelevant excuse of being a first day associative "tell" to be true.

If you really want to buy into that kind of reasoning, I can look town as shit simply by reading everybody as not being town together with everybody. The odds are on my side and I'll look like a genius for getting most of the combinations right after the game ends!

As I said way back on page 1. Shit logic that reeks of fake scum hunting.

[Cane + Able]

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

And for that last post, I'll just point you to a post you should be plenty familiar with:

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods to avoid this very scenario.

I know you feel smart & all for thinking you got me being a hypocrite, but there's a difference between impropriety and rule breaking.

Sorry for taking the wind out of your sails, though.

[Cane + Able]

Here is a list of times already where C+B has tried (in some form) to tell everyone how they need to play the game. And there were more in the block near the end, but I got tired.

It's called communication. Specifically, it's called sharing your thought processes.

In the MafiaScum game I play, information sharing is beneficial to town.

I don't know what kind of MafiaScum game you play if you think it's bad to collaborate.

[Mathdino]

Right, so House, I don't think people get towncred nowadays for being right. And like I said (

which you continue to ignore

) I've already expanded on my suspicions of BMWS. The only reason we keep talking about my association is because you keep talking about it. Also, once again, I never used the word 'tell'. Stop misrepping.

Also your math still sucks. Any given player does not have a 50% chance of being scum. I think I should change my pet peeve from tunnel vision to shit math, considering I seem to get in these arguments a lot.
If anyone had a 50% chance of being scum, there would likely be 6 or 7 scum. That's idiotic.

Beginning to agree with acryon on how your playstyle isn't exactly helping the town. Still not willing to believe you're not just town who can't do math.

Edit: Dude. That's exactly what I was doing with the statement that you weren't scum with BMWS. Information sharing. It wasn't my SOLE contribution, and it certainly wasn't going to be, but I treat the thread as my personal notes on the game. Jesus.

[acryon]

As I said way back on page 1. Shit logic that reeks of fake scum hunting.

And that part was bad logic. And I agree with you for attacking that part, but that's not what I was talking about.

Besides, isn't it

against some rule

to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

And for that last post, I'll just point you to a post you should be plenty familiar with:

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods to avoid this very scenario.

I know you feel smart & all for thinking you got me being a hypocrite, but there's a difference between impropriety and

rule breaking.

Sorry for taking the wind out of your sails, though.

Went ahead and bolded them for you to make it easier.

Here is a list of times already where C+B has tried (in some form) to tell everyone how they need to play the game. And there were more in the block near the end, but I got tired.

It's called communication. Specifically, it's called sharing your thought processes.

In the MafiaScum game I play, information sharing is beneficial to town.

I don't know what kind of MafiaScum game you play if you think it's bad to collaborate.

Again, there is a difference between communication, collaboration, and what you're doing. Telling everyone how they need to play isn't sharing information and it certainly isn't collaborating. It's actually kind of the opposite.

[Cane + Able]

[quote="In post 161, acryon]No. Why would that be inappropriate? Unless he mentioned elsewhere something about the game, which he certainly didn't.[/quote]

It's inappropriate because actions outside the game are irrelevant to the game. Unless he is directly addressing the happenings of the game, anything he says elsewhere means nothing about his alignment here.

Reading his activity outside the game thread as scummy in relation to this game when "outside the game" doesn't even exist in this little corner of the site for the purposes of the game is terribad.

You have no idea what may be happening in his little world. Whatever it is, it is not related to whether his role pm has red or green text.

If you want to PL the slot because a player got themselves banned, that's on you... but at least have the cojones to admit it's a PL.

-House

[Cane + Able]

Why was Pastro kicked?

Pastro was sitebanned for his behavior elsewhere.

Precisely why his slot is null. He hasn't done enough in the thread to be read.

-House

[acryon]

No. Why would that be inappropriate? Unless he mentioned elsewhere something about the game, which he certainly didn't.

It's inappropriate because actions outside the game are irrelevant to the game. Unless he is directly addressing the happenings of the game, anything he says elsewhere means nothing about his alignment here.

Reading his activity outside the game thread as scummy in relation to this game when "outside the game" doesn't even exist in this little corner of the site for the purposes of the game is terribad.

You have no idea what may be happening in his little world. Whatever it is, it is not related to whether his role pm has red or green text.

If you want to PL the slot because a player got themselves banned, that's on you... but at least have the cojones to admit it's a PL.

-House

I did not read his outside action as scummy, because non-game content can't be scummy. But the personal character that that existed within the other posts supported the personal character I already saw acting as the scum in this game. There exist types of people just like their exist types of scum. When I viewed him as the type of scum he is initially, I saw it being played by a specific type of person. This was supported when his ban was stated and I looked at his outside posts. Obviously I can't and won't try to convince anyone to follow

my

gut-read. And that's fine if you don't like meta; I don't generally, but I shared it anyway. And nice try saying I was going for a PL when I was voting him before he even got banned. Come on, at least try here.

[acryon]

I have nothing against him as a person, and hold nothing against him because he got banned. His outside actions just so happened to fit the picture I saw in my head of the person playing scum, making me feel better about my read.

[Cane + Able]

p-edit: noticed the ban info, this makes it more likely he is aware of what RVS is, hence more likely he is mafia, voting on a player that isn't even there to reply though is not my style, I'll leave it on BMWS for now.

His ban actually makes him look really really scummy, because the way he was posting elsewhere on the site and the character it showed seems, to me, to line up perfectly with his posts being mafia this game. This sucks, because that's not how I like to win games, but I think it's actually really likely he is scum.

^ This... is what I was addressing.

•Do not bring outside influences into the game

^ This... is what I was referring to about outside influences. Bad behavior outside of the game = outside influence.

That said, I missed your earlier reads list when I was swooping through the thread to catch up. Thanks for clarifying on your read.

-House

[acryon]

p-edit: noticed the ban info, this makes it more likely he is aware of what RVS is, hence more likely he is mafia, voting on a player that isn't even there to reply though is not my style, I'll leave it on BMWS for now.

His ban actually makes him look really really scummy, because the way he was posting elsewhere on the site and the character it showed seems, to me, to line up perfectly with his posts being mafia this game. This sucks, because that's not how I like to win games, but I think it's actually really likely he is scum.

^ This... is what I was addressing.

Yes, and this makes me think you didn't actually read it. If you just read "His ban actually makes him look really really scummy", then I would totally see where you are coming from. But that's not where it ended.

[Cane + Able]

Done wall bashing. Lynch him if you think earning a ban is worthy of a scum read.

I'll just be sitting on the sidelines with my popcorn to see how it turns out.