Reck's Retrospective Rehash - OVER (thx obama)

[Iecerint]

Best case for Dan town really is that he got pressure at all.

[Bella]

My sinuses still feel like they're about to explode out of my face, but I'm keeping up with the game. I am more than ready to not be sick any more.

Aegor continues to look scummy. He jumped right onto the middle of a wagon that formed relatively quickly, despite the fact that he's completely tunneling on ActionDan and claimed at one point his vote wouldn't move off him until he was dead or replaced. The only position he's committed to is a Lynch-All-Lurkers policy vote on ActionDan, whilst his whole thing about PV, who he is voting for, is that he "looks scummy". He also says he wants off the wagon, but stays on anyway. People should really join me in voting for this guy.

[ooba]

People should really join me in voting for this guy.

I was with you on the wagon, but moved.

What are your thoughts on Pere?

[xRECKONERx]

Official Vote Count

PeregrineV

(7): Triforce, 50 Shades of Purple, ooba, Aegor, Untrod Tripod, ChannelDelibird, 4burner

Chevre

(3): Shinobi, Kise, Iecerint

Shinobi

(2): Chevre, BROseidon

4burner

(1): CrashTextDummie

Aegor

(1): Bella

vezokpiraka

(1): PeregrineV

ActionDan

(1): vezokpiraka

Untrod Tripod

(1): Riddleton

Not Voting

(4): Cabd, ActionDan, ZZZX, jmj3000

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-11-18 18:00:00)

[PeregrineV]

@Pere: Could you finish that wagon thing you were doing a couple of pages back?

I was looking at how the Nexus wagon dissolved, to see who may have led or casued that. But, there was no direct effort to do so. It was more that wguerts wagon was pushed more/enough.

You can say that people indirectly calling the Nexus wagon bad/silly/etc. (and me calling him town) may have influenced it's lack of growth, but that would just be a stretch, since I can show/see any direct correlation to that.

I did find 4burners post where about 5(?) of his reads are based on Nexus, which seems out or proportion to the amount of discussion Nexus was actually involved in or the subject of. Usually that kind of associative reads are done post-flip or when a strong read/result is had by a player. 4burners position in 238 looks like he's simultaneously trying to defend/protect Nexus, but also setting up for town credit in case of Nexus flip (1455).

The last 5-7 votes for wguerts could be town or scum just making sure a lynch goes through, so not spending a bunch of time on that section right now.

[PeregrineV]

perv is scum cos no way no how is he going to push for a town!nexus read based on the meta he tried to present. the push on chevre seems like a scum driven cw and is why I am considering that chevre might actually be town.

Since I know for a fact I presented no meta whatsoever, what meta are you saying I presented?

I am sorry but didn't you say that nexus "is always like this" in a post that I posited previously?

cos that was meta.

Other than calling him town, yes, I said Nexus is always like this.

It may be meta, but only in the absolute vaguest sense, but I didn't give (and no one cared to ask) exactly what I meant.

So, I'm now amused about how I gave no info on it, and you are able to say I was wrong (and therefore scum).

If you are not saying this, then please correct me, but it sure looks like it.

[Aegor]

despite the fact that he's completely tunneling on ActionDan and claimed at one point his vote wouldn't move off him until he was dead or replaced. The only position he's committed to is a Lynch-All-Lurkers policy vote on ActionDan,

That is such a reductionist view of why I want AD lynched.

whilst his whole thing about PV, who he is voting for, is that he "looks scummy". He also says he wants off the wagon, but stays on anyway. People should really join me in voting for this guy.

Triforce made an excellent case against PV. I see no reason why I should have to make a completely new case. I would move off the wagon onto AD, but since it is clear that I have no support at the moment for that wagon, I am perfectly fine still voting PV. His recent posting has been far more proactively town, which is why I was/am wavering.

[50 Shades of Purple]

Other than calling him town, yes, I said Nexus is always like this.

It may be meta, but only in the absolute vaguest sense, but I didn't give (and no one cared to ask) exactly what I meant.

So, I'm now amused about how I gave no info on it, and you are able to say I was wrong (and therefore scum).

If you are not saying this, then please correct me, but it sure looks like it.

I already explained this. that isn't what I am saying at all. what i find odd is that you have *so much* experience with nexus that you would know that he is always abrasive because that is a definitive statement that i am trying to figure out how you would have the experience to conclude it. cos I game hunted you, albeit not thoroughly cos I don't have the patience for it that is why I asked for cabd's help cos he is 1 of 3 players on this site who can data mine with any form of accuracy. most people do it wrong but that is how most people meta. I am unsure about about cabd but this will go a long way into mebbe helping me sort him as well as pick up on anything that i might have missed cos I am not seeing that you have THAT much experience with nexus. that is a character judgment and I am trying to figure out how you obtained that information to the point that you would ignore what cbd was saying about him when cbd has much more experience with nexus than you.

you picked up on the subtleties of that nexus can sometimes be abrasive (cos that is what you said, personally I don't find him abrasive at all) yet miss key nuances in the dynamics between nexus and cbd. ffs, we did this in organic chemistry where scum tried to steer suspicion off each other by using bullshit throwaway character assessments.

you can save time by answering what is your experience with nexus? <------ see I don't even understand why I have to ask this question since it is is implicit in my previous posts.

[PeregrineV]

Other than calling him town, yes, I said Nexus is always like this.

It may be meta, but only in the absolute vaguest sense, but I didn't give (and no one cared to ask) exactly what I meant.

So, I'm now amused about how I gave no info on it, and you are able to say I was wrong (and therefore scum).

If you are not saying this, then please correct me, but it sure looks like it.

I already explained this. that isn't what I am saying at all. what i find odd is that you have *so much* experience with nexus that you would know that he is always abrasive because that is a definitive statement that i am trying to figure out how you would have the experience to conclude it. cos I game hunted you, albeit not thoroughly cos I don't have the patience for it that is why I asked for cabd's help cos he is 1 of 3 players on this site who can data mine with any form of accuracy. most people do it wrong but that is how most people meta. I am unsure about about cabd but this will go a long way into mebbe helping me sort him as well as pick up on anything that i might have missed cos I am not seeing that you have THAT much experience with nexus. that is a character judgment and I am trying to figure out how you obtained that information to the point that you would ignore what cbd was saying about him when cbd has much more experience with nexus than you.

Except I don't really keep track of what players have more experience with other players. I can barely keep up with my own.

you picked up on the subtleties of that nexus can sometimes be abrasive (cos that is what you said, personally I don't find him abrasive at all) yet miss key nuances in the dynamics between nexus and cbd. ffs, we did this in organic chemistry where scum tried to steer suspicion off each other by using bullshit throwaway character assessments.

Thus, even when CDB says it, I have no reason to buy it.

you can save time by answering what is your experience with nexus? <------ see I don't even understand why I have to ask this question since it is is implicit in my previous posts.

I'm sure we have many games together (ie Let Cabd do his thing- I want to see what comes up), but the one I specifically had trouble figuring him was (I think) Community Mafia.

[50 Shades of Purple]

I'm sure we have many games together (ie Let Cabd do his thing- I want to see what comes up), but the one I specifically had trouble figuring him was (I think) Community Mafia.

link?

and even before I look you had trouble reading nexus that game but felt comfortable enough to town read him?

[PeregrineV]

I'm sure we have many games together (ie Let Cabd do his thing- I want to see what comes up), but the one I specifically had trouble figuring him was (I think) Community Mafia.

link?

and even before I look you had trouble reading nexus that game but felt comfortable enough to town read him?

For the first day? Yes.

[PeregrineV]

I'm sure we have many games together (ie Let Cabd do his thing- I want to see what comes up), but the one I specifically had trouble figuring him was (I think) Community Mafia.

link?

and even before I look you had trouble reading nexus that game but felt comfortable enough to town read him?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19149

[ZZZX]

PV looks town enough for me to begin trusting imho

[Kise]

Kise's posting is terrible

8 mor vite pls

[Riddleton]

VOTE: Kise

[Kise]

fuk u riltin, not nice

[Kise]

I'm actually becoming bothered by that vote. Have you fully caught up?

[Riddleton]

Yes. I'll explain why later, got other games first.

[Kise]

They can wait. Talk to me.

[Riddleton]

You're fiesty. Very well.

Kise

a) The post by Kise here is golden. The line at the bottom basically says "If my actions aren't incredibly pro-town by responding to cases etc.. ignore it, as I don't want to play like that! Ignore my anti town actions please". I don't like how Kise here sets himself up as an excuse to avoid cases against him.

b) Kise easily set himself up for an easy hop onto the Wgeurts wagon here. Most people sheeped Triforce, and while I can understand that, Kise's responing was one of the worst. "I just realised who Triforce is!" is a bit of a bad statement; it implies he wasn't willing to vote on the wgeurts wagon at first, but upon learning whom Triforce is a hydra of, he'll blindly sheep. In my opinion, it's even worse than the naked votes or the 'I agree' type statements as he blatantly awknowledges he wasn't 100% convinced until he's learned "Oh, you're experienced right? You must be correct then!".

c) Kise's "Anyone want to CC VT?" post is extremely bad. For one, there's not going to be only 2 VTs in a 24 player game. To me it looks like an easy attempt to push a mislynch of someone I townread. I think in this game, the best way to figure out fakeclaims is to look for game counterclaims, as PerV says. That's either terrible logic from Kise or scum, and I'm leaning towards the latter.

d) Your ISO is 90% rubbish. There's a lot of fluff and fake content in there with the ocassional thought sprinkled in for afterthought. Posts like this, this, this, and this are just bad; they're posts which includes a lot of quotes but barely reply back anything in return except perhaps a 1-liner. Not only are they extremely irritating to read, they're usually done by scum to give the false impression of 'activity' when they are actually saying very little.

I've gone through some of Kise's recent scumgames and towngames and his meta supports my conclusions:

Towngames

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34387
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25981

Towngames we see Kise more active, posting and helping out in the game. Although there's fluff, there's not as much as we see in his scumgames, and here, and he's helpful for the majority of the game.

Scumgames

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=31620
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=36072

Scumgames, Kise tends to lurk more, and post big quote walls with one-liner responses to them, ala what I've found in point d) of my case. Kise in scumgames tends to post more fluff and bullshit like we're seeing here, too. Needless to say, Kise's ISO here is matching his scumgame.

[50 Shades of Purple]

riddleton what are your other reads?

[BROseidon]

Best case for Dan town really is that he got pressure at all.

But this doesn't apply to every other lurker?

[BROseidon]

Triforce made an excellent case against PV.

lol

[Iecerint]

Best case for Dan town really is that he got pressure at all.

But this doesn't apply to every other lurker?

I didn't notice anything against other lurkers being disproportionate.

[Iecerint]

ActionDaniel is by this point simply asking for it, though.