Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[notreallygood]

I suspect a little about Texcat. He brought out the townbloc topic and all kinds of theories and also posed numerous questions but has never done any follow-ups to them, and at the end of the day he just keeps his RVS vote.

CT hasn't posted much, but I agree with him that there's no scum involved in House/Math/Constantine interaction. I've already explained why.

Aneninen has given his valuable thoughts on Mafia traditions (townbloc, scum fashion etc.), which I appreciate, but he needs to elaborate more about his reads. The same goes for Rudolph.

I understand a little of what BMWS said, but I haven't totally figured out the bits and pieces.

OK, I'm afraid that I have to go back to my work now. I'm look forward to how things go on. Good luck to town!

[Mathdino]

I'm sorry for not making it clear about my case on Gravity. In post 189, I actually tried to give some hints when I was giving my reads on Pastro, but I wanted to avoid redundancy. Now, I'll restate the whole case.

@Gravity

Arguments

1. You suspected Pastro for his following of Math with the exact same reasoning he used, but I'd like you to know that their motives were different.

For Pastro: In 119, He dismissed BMWS' reason of voting Constantine because "that's not a legitimate reason", and in the subsequent post he said the same thing to Constantine, but he had no idea that both of those were joke votes, considering that he wrote in a serious tone. This suggests that he was actually serious when he posted.

For Math: In 55, he asked a rhetorical question and used a very playful word (Ninja'd), so it's highly probable that he was just joking around when he posted.

So it isn't scummy for Pastro to use the same reasons as Math's, as their intentions were different.

2. A number of people happen to have the same opinions. For example, most of us agree that town blocks are unnecessary because people will be grouped together as the game goes on, and policy lynches are ill-advised. So, are we also scummy because of having the same reasons as one another's?

Meta

I'm not suspecting your eagerness to push the ones you regard as scummy. I'm talking about how such act contradicts your meta in previous games. You used to show a relatively careful approach towards your suspects even if you were feeling confident, and you wouldn't repeat why they were scummy. But in this game, you're the total opposite of who you were. You repeated your reasons of voting Pastro in 128 and 196. All these feel really scummy to me.

What even is this? Like what am I reading?
A. Did you just try to psychoanalyse me and assume Pastro and Gravity came to the same conclusion?
B. That question was not rhetorical, it read like a policy vote. 'Ninja'd' means that someone posted right before I did and I'm acknowledging their presence.
C. Having the same opinion is not scummy. A general pattern of sheeping is.
D. You're voting him for being wrong in your eyes? While soft-defending Pastro's slot?
VOTE: NRG
Fishy reasoning, seems like you made all that up to find him scummy and are using the meta argument to get us to believe you.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

It's plausible that at least one of NRG/MathDino is scum. Maybe both. I don't see the interactions between MathDino and NRG as Town vs Town noise.

[copper223]

@Rudolph + anyone with play time with him
Do you describe yourself as a tunneler?

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

No, I wouldn't describe myself as a tunneler. Why are you asking?

[Aneninen]

Hi Aneninen! Can I call you 'Anen' for short?

Many other players do that. And many misspells my name. I don't really care. However, once someone called me "question mark hallway thingy", now

that

was funny.

Regarding your most recent posts, you sound shy. You shouldn't be too hard on yourself with your playstyle. I'm sure it's fine! As for why I asked, I asked you and Acryon specifically because I find you two the hardest to read in this game. I don't know why; that's my fallacy as a human being.

A piece of information: I'm too slow in most of my games. This means, it's no surprise that I've produced very little useful content so far.

Am I the only one who thinks that it's strange to get so solid reads so early?

Why do you think it's strange to have townreads early?

In such an early phase I mostly use only could-s, may-s and might-s...
________

As for my reads.

C+A produces zillions of posts. They don't give me scum vibes, because of, I don't know, the sheer amount of information they give away. Plus intuition. Though, I must admit, that big wall was a TL;DR for me.

Mathdino is similar to C+A. Somehow he seems to be a bit more nervous than C+A but, that may come from a townie too.

Constantine has produced less content than it has seemed. I've just ISOed him and I'm trying to "Missmarple" him. Well, "MissMarple-ing" is a concept of mine: I've seen Player X in a game, who flipped alignment A. If Player Y has quite similar posts, similar style, and they give me the same vibes as Player X, Player Y could have the same alignment. In this case, my problem is the following: he resembles me to

two

players. One of those was scum and the other was town. I need more info here.

Acryon's start was good, but I didn't like 139. Being banned is not an alignment tell at all! Also, I don't know what to think about his list in 149. It might be only my intuition but something's not okay here.

Copper may be town. I've posted about him before.

Rudolph, are you an alt of someone else? Have you played Mafia on another site before? I need these pieces of info for reading.

NRG's scumhunting seems to be genuine, he may be town.

BMWS's "hydra-slip" might have been town-slip but apart from that, there is very little content here... however, he's dormant until someone pokes him. No scumhunting at all and I don't like that.

Gravity has not too many posts but I can see nothing scummy here. By the way, he's "MissMarple-town-positive" now.

Texcat is pretty much null. So is CultivationTheory.

In theory, Newbie would be the same but she has been active elsewhere on this site while she's done nothing here. I don't like this at all and I think it is worth a vote. Let's see what happens.

VOTE: Newbie

In general, I think the scums are trying to "fly under the radar", especially since C+A and Mathdino has filled the thread with themselves. It's so easy to hide in a situation like this, so easy...
By the way, am I the only one who thinks that the "outfit" of the game changed somewhere about Page8...?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Texcat - Uh, pretty much. I think a lot of my vote was done out of spite
I'm not a fan of aneneinen, but I agree with his reasoning on newbie.

It is rude to ignore one game and post in others

[Cane + Able]

It is rude to ignore one game and post in others

Depends on the game that's being ignored, really. Some deserve to die.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I think it's rude to sign up for a game to ignore it. Regardless of scenario.
If you're going to be this inactive, and blatantly post in another game every two hours, then you are being extremely rude.
The only thing stopping me from voting Anen is that he is absolutely 100% right about newbie.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Fishy reasoning, seems like you made all that up to find him scummy and are using the meta argument to get us to believe you.

I'm not getting that feeling. Reasoning, bad or good, isn't really alignment indicative. Motivation and "psychological" tells are.
There are certain ways to detect if NRG was trying to do what you're claiming he is.

I'm not saying he isn't, but it is a bold assumption when there aren't any actual tells to prove it.

[copper223]

@Rudi

No, I wouldn't describe myself as a tunneler. Why are you asking?

Trying to understand if you are giving true reads or faking it. It looks like you are on Dino with little to go on, from what I can see, which is fine since everyone looks at the game their own way, but making associative reads based on his interactions that also imply he is scum looks artificial to me if you aren't usually a tunneller, from which I might expect this.

@Aneninen
Pressure on newbie is not a bad idea but it may also be a way to mask any real scumhunting on your side, as long as you keep posting reads I'm fine with it.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I don't see the interactions between MathDino and NRG as Town vs Town noise

Well... I wouldn't be so sure.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

Rudolph, are you an alt of someone else? Have you played Mafia on another site before? I need these pieces of info for reading.

Yes, I'm an alt. I'm not saying whom of though (that defeats the purpose of using an alternate account; that is, to avoid meta).

I'm a little cautious at Newbie too for the reasons you describe. Posting in other games but not here could be a sign of apathy for this game (ie. he's not interested in this game very much) or lurker scum. Thanks for spotting that!

---

@Texcat - Uh, pretty much. I think a lot of my vote was done out of spite

If your vote on MathDino is out of 'spite' only, and not because you think he is scum, why are you voting him? If you awknowledge it's out of spite and not because he's scummy, then shouldn't that post be accompanied by an unvote? Too many questions and so few answers!


Let's try and co-operate. Whom are your main scumreads this game?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

So I can have that

"Lolz, I killed that jackass who I hate and now he can no longer play"

feeling.
Aneinen is my main scum read. Probably because he reminds me of myself as scum.
I'm holding back my vote on him because newbie is being inactive.

I would rather have newbie replace out than PL'ing her

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Does it really matter if RTR is a hydra/alt or not?

[acryon]

Does it really matter if RTR is a hydra/alt or not?

Some people care a lot about meta. It also does help to know what kind of experience people have playing the game due to certain behavior that can be written off as newbie. Although relying too much on either is generally bad.

[Newbie]

Yeah. I think I should get replaced out. I'm just not into it. Sorry to the game mod if my actions are coming off rude. I don't mean it that way.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

Bah, a cluster of posts have emerged while writing that.

---

The only thing stopping me from voting Anen is that he is absolutely 100% right about newbie.

That's bad logic. Just because you and someone else share a similar scumread doesn't mean that 'someone else' is definitely innocent. For example, scum could be bussing their buddy.

Trying to understand if you are giving true reads or faking it. It looks like you are on Dino with little to go on, from what I can see, which is fine since everyone looks at the game their own way, but making associative reads based on his interactions that also imply he is scum looks artificial to me if you aren't usually a tunneller, from which I might expect this.

Most of your problems with me are playstyle-based arguments. In other words, you're not familiar with someone with a playstyle like mine. That's OK though!

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

Does it really matter if RTR is a hydra/alt or not?

Some people care a lot about meta. It also does help to know what kind of experience people have playing the game due to certain behavior that can be written off as newbie. Although relying too much on either is generally bad.

What do

you

feel about my behaviour, in light of knowing my account is an alt?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Newbie Good idea if you can't be active. I'm not exactly having fun on this game either, but I'm trying my best for the sake of it.
Since newbie is replacing out, we should focus on anen and NRG.

@Rudolf - In case I wasn't clear enough Rudolf, I could use an explanation on your "town vs town" noise argument about MD and NRG.
I reviewed both ISO's again. NRG mentions MD an awful lot since the start of the game, I'm just not sure how confident we can be in what kind of interaction just took place.'

@Everyone - Can we please not do "self meta"?

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

I would rather have newbie replace out than PL'ing her

What the heck is it with you and policy lynches? I ... just don't get it.

No one is doing self-meta recently, Constantine.

[Newbie]

@mod

I want to replace out.

[acryon]

Does it really matter if RTR is a hydra/alt or not?

Some people care a lot about meta. It also does help to know what kind of experience people have playing the game due to certain behavior that can be written off as newbie. Although relying too much on either is generally bad.

What do

you

feel about my behaviour, in light of knowing my account is an alt?

I don't really think anything about it. It was pretty clear that you were most likely an alt, especially since one of your first lines was "St. Constantine the Hermit looks like a very new player to Mafiascum." I think putting specific play-styles as scum or town is bad, so it's best to focus on the content. In terms of my read on you, you appear to be genuinely scum-hunting (197 and the latter half of 237, specifically). The only thing that makes me feel uncertain is that large portions of your ISO are discussing what is and isn't a scum-tell/general comments about the game of mafia. There's nothing wrong with it if it is accompanied by a healthy chunk of content specific to this game. I think you are perhaps a little too far in the general game theory side right now, but certainly not enough to warrant a scum-read.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I would rather have newbie replace out rather than PL'ing her

rather than PL'ing her

Let's

Not

Policy Lynch

Newbie

I've seen self meta twice so far

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

unvote, vote St Constantine the Hermit