NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER
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In post 26, Csareo wrote:
Why did you claim? I have no idea why someone in their right minds would claim reviver, and I hope you make it to D2 to realize why.
the earnest, it burnsssss
Can you revive yourself?
I don't like this question.
In post 29, davesaz wrote:I don't think any of the confirm phase comments can be taken at face value. Reviver isn't even a normal role. Supersaint could be real but suffers the drawbacks you pointed out.
Large Normals are allowed TWO (2) non-Normal roles or modifiers as long as they have not been marked explicitly non-Normal by the NRG.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 33, Csareo wrote:
Are you trying to imply something. I'm curious on why you immediately latch on to this player as the game begins.
I'm curious as to why you've suddenly felt the need to refer to yourself in the third person.
I don't like this question.
Try to not be alarmed when players investigate a lead. It's some crazy trend seen with this so called town bunch.
Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?
Large Normals are allowed TWO (2) non-Normal roles or modifiers as long as they have not been marked explicitly non-Normal by the NRG.
This is good to know. Are either of the claimed roles normal? Can you link where you got this information?
Normal
Anything that is neither on a red list nor a green list would qualify as one of the possible two.
For the record, I doubt anyone was being serious in claiming.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 35, Csareo wrote:Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?
I actually think it is an important question, because if he says yes than he is cleared of all lynch attempts by scum. That is a vital benefit, is it not?
Along the same lines as the supersaint, he is cleared of all lynch attempts by having the ability to "Self Revive", but it is also suspicious because it is an unusual claim.
I'm just a bit curious, and not a fan of being told where not to poke my head.
Why would Scum try to lynch a claimed PR?
Reviver is way more unusual than Supersaint. Also, Supersaint doesn't revive itself, it kills the hammer voter.
You can be curious, but when you're rolefishing that's bad.
For the record, I doubt anyone was being serious in claiming.
What reasons do you have to believe they weren't being serious? I don't like the idea of you white-washing a "three shot reviver" claim.
I'm going to be looking closer at your interactions with TierShift in the future.
Because it was before the game started, because neither is a particularly typical role, because claiming Reviver in particular would be a good way to get yourself killed, because they're not stupid.
You may also notice that Muffin didn't exactly claim Supersaint.
Why?
In post 38, Csareo wrote:RVS is over guys. Anaylze the information on the table.
It's better this way. RVS is an avenue to lurking.
I 1000000000% hate this post on a personal level.
YAY TSO
IGMEO: Garmr, Nero Cain, Cho, dave
for not actually saying anything relevant to the nearly 2 pages of the game when they posted.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.
Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.
Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 60, T S O wrote:This is the first game I have ever seen from Csareo where his opening post was not astoundingly scummy. He must be Town!
Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 67, T S O wrote:BE's Mind Mafia, page 1, enter Csareo.
He was town in that one. I don't know his alignment in the other.
ahahahahahaha seriously?
In post 65, Thor665 wrote:In post 61, goodmorning wrote:Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.
Maybe.
It's multi-neighborhood though.
Kind of works with the Masquerade theme I suppose.
I see.
P-EDIT: Should it, though?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 88, Csareo wrote:In post 61, goodmorning wrote:Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.
If it is irrelevant, then why did you post it? I am also curious as to who you're most suspicious of in your neighborhood.
I was answering Cho's response; I said she hadn't posted anything relevant to the game, she said she'd posted that, and I clarified that it wasn't relevant to what had been posted so far, which is what I meant.
I haven't seen enough to provide a value judgement.
Because it was before the game started, because neither is a particularly typical role, because claiming Reviver in particular would be a good way to get yourself killed, because they're not stupid.
You may also notice that Muffin didn't exactly claim Supersaint.
Why?
Well tiershif self confirmed his role in answering the self revive. He is absolutely off limits for a lynch, as his role is both confirmable and powerful.
And he wont be killed.......... he can self revive.
I'm 99.9999999999% sure that was a good old dose of Tier sarcasm.
If he is what he says he is, which he isn't, best play would be to kill him anyway because no Docs would be on him. So he could revive himself, so what? He could revive any other NK anyway.
In post 89, Csareo wrote:Is anyone else suspicious of the early tunnel on me, and how TSO seemed to fuel it?
Who's tunneling you?
In post 106, Csareo wrote:I've seen town TSO, and this is not town TSO.
I've seen both TSOs, and it's too soon to tell.
In post 108, Csareo wrote:Which is why I thought he might be scum playing a fake claim gambit.
lolololololololololololol ok
In post 111, Csareo wrote:The wagonwas established by GMand Boonskies, but quickly gained traction in result to comments that TSO made, him even joining the wagon in its 4th slot.
bold: No, it wasn't.
Am I the only one not hugely fond of Garmr's play rn? I don't know what it is though.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 118, Csareo wrote:Thanks for your cooperation GM.
What cooperation?
In post 119, Csareo wrote:Sorry, tiershift is tunneling me, and you a little, but I found there was more reasoning to your questions.
Even if we disagree on the conclusions.
Tunneling usually implies that you think the person in question is Scum.
Have I indicated such at any point?
Egg is weirdly disconnected.
In post 126, Goofyd00d wrote:Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.
Subversion of site meta is one of the easiest ways to make a Normal more interesting. Again, I'm not planning on drawing any alignment-based conclusions just based on whether someone's in a Neighbourhood.
Muffin. That post ain't shit.
In post 134, TobyLoby wrote:goodmorning, do you think Csareo is scummy, maybe townie, or null? I'm getting an everything from you.
It's pretty Null. I've seen this particular brand of play before, though I haven't played with this particular player, and it is not indicative imo. At least, not yet. Could be getting there.
In post 176, T S O wrote:I somehow end up in a large pissing fest with -someone- in every goddamn Large I participate in d1 and it makes it really fucking unfun.
Why don't you just ignore him then?
I'd find it understandable.
Got any weird feelings on anyone so far?
In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" buthis wagon went rather fastand that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.
What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"
In post 195, T S O wrote:Thanks for the moral support, guys, I am officially the grumpiest fuck ever to walk the halls of these forums. :/
wlu tsoEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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The main reason I'm not fighting with you is because you haven't ruined shit for me personally yet.
TSO, however, is fairly justified.
Answer the rest of my post? There was other stuff @you.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.
My other top reads are GM and TSO. I'll take my vote off of TSO once he answers my questions.
Top reads? I assume you mean scumreads? Explain them, and explain why you're trying to appease TSO in this post.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 215, Csareo wrote:In post 213, goodmorning wrote:In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.
My other top reads are GM and TSO. I'll take my vote off of TSO once he answers my questions.
Top reads? I assume you mean scumreads? Explain them, and explain why you're trying to appease TSO in this post.
If you first tell me how I'm appeasing TSO. I am pretty confident the dudes scum.
It's just if I push it any longer I'm going to be hanged.
"If you only answer my questions I'll surely unvote you." If that's not appeasing I don't know what is.
I'll repeat the questions too:
Explain your read on Nero.
Explain your read on me.
Explain your read on TSO.
Explain why you would unvote a scumread just for answering questions.
P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.
You don't think the way people focus on him and what they say is indicative?
@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 230, Muffin wrote:In post 228, goodmorning wrote:@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?
I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I was on Vacation with Limited Access for the last week? Did you miss the part where I'm going to catch up on 10 pages on the plane? How about you cut me some slack, OK Chief?
Every time you post and don't say anything it makes the game one post longer and more daunting, which makes cute baby animals cry.
I wish you a fair amount of luck in your catchup. I think it might be needed the way this game is going.
In post 232, Csareo wrote:Does that help you understand why I might be trying to get off the TSO wagon?
So basically you're concerned that it's making you look bad?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
explaining Nero snipped and that
So you're scumreading him because he makes jokes? I don't think he's directing anyone anywhere in particular.
- Humor and Misdirection
I really don't see TSO either being humourous or attempting to direct conversation.
- Meta Change
How many games have you played with TSO? Because as far as I can tell I've played in 6 at least with him, not counting any games where either of us was in hydra.
I know a fair amount about his meta and the way it's developed, particularly this new slightly less fucks given style (which I like a bit better than the somewhat abrasive TSO of yesteryear).
I'm not sure whether you do.
- The interaction where he showers me in compliments until you guy's don't
I don't think that happened; or, if it had, that it would be alignment-indicative.
- RVS voting me while also giving me a compliment
1) not sure that was meant as a compliment
2) that's kind of what happens when you RV. The number of times I've randomly voted someone with a "HIIIII" or an alarmingly cheery smiley is far greater than the number of times I've yelled something like "SCUM OMG" or "DEATH TO THE WEST" or something.
- Keeping RVS vote on me after calling me town about a dozen times after
This did happen, but why do you find it scummy?
- Refusing to answer ^
Refusing to answer anything is never a scumtell.
- How others joined my wagon when it became obvious TSO slipped on my meta
How is others joining your wagon indicative of TSO-Scum?
- He actually keeps up with the VI gambit unnecessarily for several posts
I don't think that was a gambit and I don't think he found it unnecessary.
- Thor Votes TSO and says he'll vig me (this needs more looking into)
But what does that have to do with TSO being Scum??
- Refusing to answer my questions and being anti-town
Being anti-Town is also not a scumtell.
P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.
You said you had a read on me of some sort. I'd like to see it explained, yeah?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 206, goodmorning wrote:In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" buthis wagon went rather fastand that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.
What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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@ NERO:
In post 252, goodmorning wrote:In post 206, goodmorning wrote:In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" buthis wagon went rather fastand that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.
What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"
In other news: goofy is flying well below radar, dave is taking safe stances, Garmr still feels weird to me, and several have failed to post.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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And yes, multiball means multiple scumteams.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 295, Goofyd00d wrote:About flying under the radar, I tend to do that when there is a lot of action. I'll soak it up and give some reads later. If you want something specific just ask, however that usually leads to me getting a lot of questions. I'll give some thoughts after work.
Some vague sense of any reads you might have would be helpful.
@dave etc: TSO is frequently angry.
In post 325, T S O wrote:Uhhh, gm - I appreciated your support in those troubling times and all, but I don't remember us playing many games together. I think I can only remember one, actually.
They've been stretched over the full time you've been onsite, so it's only about 1 game/2 months.
I also insta-scumread you in the first 4 and was Scum in one of the latter 2 iirc, so I could believe that you could forget.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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muffinnnnn
muffin whyyyyy
So I've found myself defending TSO. That's pretty strong for me. This is where I figure out whether it's because of circumstance or is an actual townread.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 359, TierShift wrote:In post 346, Garmr wrote:I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.
UNVOTE: toby
I don't like this post and I'll research you now.
Good, maybe you'll figure out what it is then.
Looking forward to Izariael's post.
I seem to have concluded that TSO is Town.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 384, T S O wrote:what exactly convinced you in the interim time that I was a townread?
I went back through your ISO, then I slept on it, went through again and decided that was it. It's not the strongest townread I've ever had, and it's based on more body of work than any specific post, but it's a townread I feel comfortable with.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Like I said, for me it's mainly the overall impression I get from his posts. It's incredibly nonspecific - a dash of tone here, a bit of meta there.
In post 437, Cho wrote:I think I'm fairly town for outing the neighborhood. Scum wouldn't do that.
Sure they would, if they thought it would make them look Town.
Players I am currently uneasy about: Garmr, Thor, Pere, Boonskiies.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 441, Izariael wrote:In post 440, Izariael wrote:In post 437, Cho wrote:I think I'm fairly town for outing the neighborhood. Scum wouldn't do that.
Sure they would. Being in a neighbourhood isn't alignment-indicative, so it's not really skin off their back to out it, especially if it gets them towncred. I view outing it as null, since I see motivations from both sides of the equation.
Oh shitballs... gm beat me to it I think. I didn't see her post until after
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...Egg is in this game?
Oh right, the Pere thing at the beginning. Still feel the same?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 484, Aeronaut wrote:In post 61, goodmorning wrote:I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.
Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.
Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.
Nothing is irrelevant. Also, why would you claim if it's "not particularly beneficial to out it"? Direct contradiction?
Yeah, the rest of that sentence apparently looked irrelevant to you because it clarifies: neighbour claim was irrelevant to all posts that had been posted so far, which was why I had a problem with Cho.
Just because it's not particularly beneficial doesn't mean it would hurt to confirm it.
Hmmmmm. Debating votes...
Vote: AeronautEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Light Townread.
In post 525, PeregrineV wrote:How does that make sense for town to spend so much time on?
Makes plenty of sense given that I now have a firm townread on the slot.
In post 529, Aneninen wrote:@Everyone
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?
Probably not, but if it's something you want to do then by all means. I just don't think it would really help.
Later, when a Scum is flipped, that sort of thing would be quite useful. Currently? Probably just distraction.
Currently I am reaction testing someone. We'll see how that goes.
P-EDIT:In post 533, Garmr wrote:@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?
I like this question.
I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable within the momentis a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 539, Aeronaut wrote:@Goodmorning Of course it hurts to confirm it. A neighborhood is five people who can talk with each other without everyone else knowing about it, even at night. They are a threat to scum in late game, because once the pile of people is narrowed down, then there could still be two or three people in there, some even confirmed. So by outing yourself right away, you're directly hurting the towns chances.
On the contrary. The existence of a Neighbourhood of such size implies that there is probably a Scum in it (though not definitively, as I've said).
Which means there's a block of 5 that we can attempt to ascertain whether Scum at Night, which leaves us more free to analyse others during the day and not get bitched at for it.
In post 541, Muffin wrote:I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.
Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.
So... yeah.
I for one think there's some mileage in keeping some folks secret.
You can just wait and ask your partners tonight ;]
In post 548, Garmr wrote:In post 538, goodmorning wrote:I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable within the momentis a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.
Ok so you saying it's a playstyle thing your trying. It also crossed my mind earlier you might be using the neighborhood to discuss cases and that's why you weren't pushing as hard in thread.
That's not really something I would say is in the scope of a Neighbourhood for me. In non-Newbie games I like to make my thoughts very clear regardless of alignment. Can't do that if only 4 people can read what you're writing.
It got me thinking what warrants a vote to you? Because I use my vote as a pressure tool and I find threatening to vote someone if they don't answer a question can sometimes apply even more pressure to answer. So not voting till this late in the game baffles me.
Can you tell me in your mind what does a vote mean to you and how do you use them?
To me, a vote is only a tiny fraction of what it takes to lynch somebody (and I don't just mean that it's 1/21 of a lynch today). Much more important than voting is finding Scum, explaining why they're Scum, convincing others they're Scum, convincing others they're MORE scummy than anyone else, THEN the vote becomes important. But it's only the culmination of what can be a vast expenditure of words, and it only has importance when it sparks into a wagon.
The fact that I don't see votes as that important is at no time more obvious than when a wagon on me reaches L-1. I sometimes laugh. A lot.
Now, I will say that I recognise how important other people perceive votes to be, which is why you'll often find me on near-deadline vanity wagons. But that's a story for a different time, I think.
ME ME I LIKE TALKING ABOUT ME LOOK IT'S MY EGO IT'S MEEEEEEE
In post 549, PeregrineV wrote:Yeah, he's trying to convince me of total playstyle change from here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25487
Ah, AMURIKA. Gooooodddddd timessssssss.
We've played more recently than that, though.
From least to most recent:
Author Mafia
AMURIKA Mafia
Shadows and Lights Mafia
Graveyard Shift
I'm not sure why you'd think meta from early 2013 would be of concern to me, since we've played twice since then.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 557, Thor665 wrote:In post 555, goodmorning wrote:On the contrary. The existence of a Neighbourhood of such size implies that there is probably a Scum in it (though not definitively, as I've said).
In post 541, Muffin wrote:I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.
Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.
So... yeah.
I for one think there's some mileage in keeping some folks secret.
I did a bit of snippage here to put the thoughts together.
Yo, Goodmorning, why can you both believe that the neighborhood(s?) are likely to have scum in them but *also* be in support of keeping them secret?
Like, what's the benefit to town exactly?
Outside possibility of slips, even if they do have Scum in them it's not going to be any more significant an incidence than Scum in the playerlist at large, can be incredibly distracting to Town.
I think it's better to wait a few days.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 604, PeregrineV wrote:Before I forget-
@goodmorning- I was scum in Amurika, so I had to dodge you. You made it tricky and hard to do.
Two of the games you linked you were an alt or hydra or something.
The last (graveyard) had all around bad play by most of the town, so not using that as meta for this game. Got any more?
Those are the ones we've both been players in at the same time.
You died before I replaced into Timeshift I, and I modded NY167 which you were a player in.
I still don't see why AMURIKA is relevant to this game or what point you're trying to make with it, and in Shadows I was in a hydra which the other partner abandoned after like 3 posts, so it's pretty much just me.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 613, PeregrineV wrote:Tunneling is an extremely effective scum tactic used to avoid 90% of the rest of the players. The fact that 50% of your posts here are Csar tunnels is in contrast to the last memorable game with you, in which your town play was easily recognizable.
Assume I take you at your word that Grayfoxx is now a townread for you after all that, what's next on the goodmorning agenda?
I agree tunneling is a thing that can be a useful Scum tactic.
The point I am trying to make is that that game is from a year and a half ago.
Actually I went and reread and most of my D1 posting was focused on joels and AA9, so apparently excessive focus on a limited number of people isn't outside the pale for old me either.
Next on the agenda, as I said to Garmr, is trying to sort the people I've found uncomfortable. Right now I'm most interested in Thor, you, and Boonskiies. Since we're talking, that's probably where I'll go next. I'm getting quite a lot off this multiball bit though, so that's good.
Then I'll be looking at the people who've made me uncomfortable less recently (or more recently, if that happens) and the low posters. People like Tier and Anen will probably just get read without too much effort from me.
And at some point we'll see where this reaction test goes, if anywhere. That could take a while though.
Uncomfortable list now includes Izariael.
In post 668, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. You're talking with PeregrineV. What's your read on him?
I'm still working on that.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 701, Izariael wrote:In post 692, Goofyd00d wrote:I was trying to point out that a 5 neighborhood is suspiciousin a time of the game where people were trying to deny that the neighborhood even had one mafia any. I wasn't implying this game had to be multiball
(I'm catching up and still at post 601, sorry if this is no longer relevant.)
Correct me if there was a different post you were referencing, but the closest I see to this is goodmorning's post:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.
Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.
Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.
in whichshe doesn't deny the possibility of mafia in a neighbourhoodbut does not want to scumhunt on the assumption that there is, which I find to be a far townier perspective that what you are saying she said. It's borderline misrep.
This was basically the post I was going to make, so instead of making that post I'm quoting this.
I think perhaps the number of Neighbourhoods would be useful to know, but then I think if it turns out everyone's in a neighbourhood then they could easily have been generated randomly, which would tell us nothing.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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ey
ey tier
you wanna stop kissing ass for five seconds and read thor again?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 722, Thor665 wrote:In post 715, goodmorning wrote:ey
ey tier
you wanna stop kissing Smurf for five seconds and read thor again?
After he does I look forward to hearing what he should have seen.
Hm.
A neighborhood just got claimed, how are you feeling about that?
Two, actually. Vaguely annoyed.
In post 742, Thor665 wrote:I am holding off on revealing until Goodmorning manages to get back to me with explanations on the fear of revealing and why it is pro-scum in some way.
I've already spoken as much as I want to speak on the subject.
It's a little late now, anyway.
In post 773, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, why would you say you are reaction testing before you get the reaction? Isn't that kind of counterproductive?
Given that I haven't said who I'm reaction testing or how, not at all.
This game is fun.
P-Edit: I don't remember off the top of my head but I think it was probably meta-based.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 796, davesaz wrote:In post 782, goodmorning wrote:
P-Edit: I don't remember off the top of my head but I think it was probably meta-based.
What was the p-edit replying to?
Tier's post right before it.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 801, Nero Cain wrote:In post 782, goodmorning wrote:Two, actually. Vaguely annoyed.
Why are you annoyed that two hoods got claimed?
Repeat: I've already spoken about this.
Repeat: I don't care to speak any more about it.
Note to self:
It is not polite to ask Thor to fuck off, even if you say please.
I find myself reminded slightly of NY 169 atm.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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It is actually a note to Thor, asking him politely to fuck off but not directly so I still have plausible deniability when he inevitably chooses to be offended by it.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Does anyone know whether Thor whinges as much as Town as he does as Scum?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 850, Nero Cain wrote: I DO agree a lil' bit with Thor that multikill is highly probable but a multiball game seems unlikely. Teams would have to be extremely small.
3v3v15 would be pretty balanced just at base, and 3 isn't such a small team.
In post 853, Thor665 wrote:Townperegrine is known *not* to do those things.
Piffle.
He played exactly like that in Shadows and Lights iirc.
Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 858, goodmorning wrote:Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.
O554 - Town Thor, no whinge
NY169 - Scum Thor (Casso), whinge
^These are the ones I've seen so they're the ones I've started with.
Moving on, but posting this before I forget.
At any rate, it's not like I haven't had arguments with Thor before. He's a better arguer than I am, probably because he cares more about winning than I do.
I look forward to continuing my trend of being on vanity wagons.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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trading vanity for vanity
Vote: Thor
maybe i'm crazyEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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AIN'T CAREEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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like, i'm not exactly convinced pere's not scum but i find you quite a lot more soEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i don't know why you think i'm going to be particularly coherent on this atmEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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i don't want to vote anen todayyyy
i'm not convinced he's scum
could just be newer player weirdness
In post 906, TierShift wrote:Idk I like gm's vote somehow
ME TOO OMGEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I can't speak of any games with Anen, no (to all who asked).
On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).
I continue my reaction test. I begin to despair of it working.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 928, Thor665 wrote:If it's a reaction on me - I was planning to ignore you other than to occasionally point out how your vote is useless and that you don't appear to be scumhunting in any functional way at all.
GOLLY GEE MISTER
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FIGURED ME OUT
I don't have any real need to question anyone at the moment. Reads are forming based on reading, it's all quite fun.
In post 935, Muffin wrote:In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear.
Is that the best you can come up with?
Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.
I figure if I keep on about it then by the time we hit D9 he'll get lynched. Of course, if he gets NK'd then great, I can move on.
In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.
...really?
That's incredibly weak. Muffin has been asking easy questions and flying low, and you want to call that Town?
In post 938, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What exactly do you want to "reach" with that vote? If you don't provide a case against Thor, I doubt anyone might follow your vote. I also doubt that Thor will be "scared" of your vote.
I don't know what you mean with the first question. To the latter stuff:
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).
If I was trying to scare Thor, I would have wasted a couple days constructing a massive case full of bullshit and yelled it at people until they believed me. It turns out that if you repeat yourself often enough, no matter how many times you get discredited, SOME PEOPLE WILL STILL BELIEVE YOU.
I find that incredible, but it's true. It's happened to me enough times.
I find that Garmr has affirmed himself out of the uncomfortable list.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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I'm not stopping scumhunting, as I said to you. I just find that my vanity wagon on you is the best place for my vote for the foreseeable future.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 948, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What if Thor's right? Remember, during my catchup I found PeregrineV scummy too, even if I can't prove it because Thor's vote came earlier.
Right about what? About Pere being Scum?
What does that have to do with Thor being Scum?
In post 949, Muffin wrote:In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad?
I was expecting something better than "tone" which is basically just a gut read. If you can't come up with more than a "tone" read () from 35 pages, then maybe there's a better place for your vote, hey?
You didn't really answer the question I was implicitly asking, but that's OK.
I can't say that I expected you to.
And no, it's not a gut read. It's a(n admittedly limited) meta read.
In post 953, Thor665 wrote:If Null or Towny - are any of the counter wagons remotely on scummy players? Vote them then.
You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?
It's OK, you don't have to tell anyone.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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You are totally welcome to read the post wherein I linked 2 games.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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So we're ALL the assholes here. HOORAYYYYYyEFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 964, Aneninen wrote:In post 954, goodmorning wrote:In post 948, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What if Thor's right? Remember, during my catchup I found PeregrineV scummy too, even if I can't prove it because Thor's vote came earlier.
Right about what? About Pere being Scum? 1
What does that have to do with Thor being Scum? 2
(1) Yes
(2) Nothing. Thor's posts in general give me town vibes. However, it's possible that he's bussing or we've got a Multiball. (I saw Thor getting involved in a "1vs1" fight in another game. I voted for the same player as he, but Thor got lynched eventually and he flipped scum. At the end it turned out that the game was a Multiball and I was right about the other player because she was scum in another faction. F-ck that, after Thor's flip I didn't think that there was a scum-vs-scum fight. Had I gone on with my original scumread, we'd have won. I'll remember this story not to make the same mistake again.)
Then why did you ask what you asked? I don't feel Pere as Townish just because I think Thor is Scum.
There must be other factors.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1030, davesaz wrote:In post 998, PeregrineV wrote:In post 856, davesaz wrote:haven't even developed a read on Egg yet.
Why not? You have 30 posts, they have 24. If you think all 24 Egg posts are null, then would like to hear that.
Because a read would require allocating more thought to that slot than I have up to this point. Unlike some people I could mention, I don't do a single read through and instantly pigeonhole all 20 players. That seems a lot more suspicious to me than having few reads.
It's not hard to have a vague idea on most people though.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Now I can agree a little bit with the wagon, that post was a bit crap.
In post 1072, Nero Cain wrote:In post 1064, Thor665 wrote:And I told you I was buddying you - so you should react to that or not.
vote:Thor
eyyyyyyyyy vanity wagon got legitttt
@MOD: heyyyyy you missed that vote what
-FixedLast edited by Aegor on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Cannot brain right now because WOO FOOTBALL
Stop posting walls arguing about Axle's TSO read vs Thor's Pere read because those walls are not walls I want to read.
I'm actually pretty sure it's a Scum plot to be distracting and cause apathy.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Who would have thought my vanity vote would spark some actual looking into Thor?
I'm rereading today, should have decent reads on people by the end.
P-EDIT: I find daytalk a little unlikely given that the neighbourhoods seem to all be Night-only, unless nobody bothered to share that gem. I'd like to think that someone would have taken the Cabd-NY169 route and gone "yeah we're daytalkingmasonsneighbours so scum probably have daytalk."EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1219, davesaz wrote:
I'm rereading today, should have decent reads on people by the end.
By the end of what? The game? And what do you mean by decent? Will you be providing anything other than gut / meta reads?
The end of the reread, of course.
I already have provided things other than meta reads; most notably, my read on Csareo & slot.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1255, Thor665 wrote:Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.
Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.
In post 1259, Scripten wrote:In post 1252, Nero Cain wrote:In post 1250, Scripten wrote:I guess I just don't see the link between the size of the scumteam and whether or not the game has multiple scumteams. (Or are we including SKs in that definition?) Or are there other aspects I'm missing?
multiball is traditionally 2 mafia teams and that's the context that I've been using it in. Its a 21 player game and there's only going to be like 5 or 6 scum max. If its a 4 or 5 player team then you know there's not going to be another. If its 2 then you know there's going to be another. 3, maybe.
This is very basic game logic and I'm not sure this is a scum whine or a new player just being new and not understanding.
I've played in games that were larger and had a small scumteam with an SK or two to balance things out on other sites. I'm not wholly aware of normal setups here.
ADDING TO THIS
As a general rule of thumb, the number of non-Town players will be somewhere between 20-30% of the playerlist. There are games with more (think 2-1-6 Micros or insane Large Themes), but that's usually it. So we're looking at a number of antiTown players that will be no less than 4 and no more than 7. If it is 7 it'll be 3-3-1-14, possibly with Vig, to give a fair chance of crosskills (this is because 7 would push the bounds of balance). If it's 4 then it's much more likely to be a single reasonably well-powered scumteam vs a weaker Town. Anything in between could vary pretty drastically.
Multiple 3rd parties are not unheard of but are unusual, so probably not anything like 4-1-1-15.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1262, The Fonz wrote:In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:In post 1255, Thor665 wrote:Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.
Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.
Do you really wonder? What would be the implications of either?
I don't wonder. I think it's likely to be a coincidence.
The implication of the former would be that Thor has a following, which is a mixed bag as far as the truth is concerned; he did pretty much start the Pere wagon, but does not currently have any real traction.
The implication of the latter would obviously be that Thor was taking the easy route. This isn't necessarily characteristic of Thor as either alignment.
Would you like to ask a more relevant question? Maybe, I dunno, participate a little?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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If you just got caught up then why not post some reads? An opinion on Thor vs Pere? An opinion on TSO vs Anen? Literally anything but a weak question about a joke post?
It's sarcasm. My vote is on Thor, there's no need for insinuations. If I thought it was a scumtell I'd have said so.
I've run reaction tests way longer than 5 days. That said, it won't work, but that's because the player in question is gone.
P-EDIT: NO SHIT.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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In post 1268, Thor665 wrote:In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.
Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.
I literally cannot even begin to describe how hard this pinged.
Why are you playing so terribly right now?
Should you be replacing out, or is this intentional?
I have no real idea what you're talking about, but if this is an attempt to discredit me then I just got about 10000% more certain that I'm actually right.
In post 1269, T S O wrote:In post 1267, goodmorning wrote:An opinion on Thor vs Pere? An opinion on TSO vs Anen?
What are yours?
My opinion on the former should be obvious.
I found the latter painful to read but it didn't significantly change my read on either of you.
P-EDIT: Did I miss entire swathes of relevant posting from you?EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Oh, just one relevant post. OK.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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