Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[T S O]

Hey, Waffle, have you considered that by posting in that colour you inhibit the rest of us from, I don't know, scumhunting? How did you put it again? 'fuck scum hunting, am I right?'

RVS and the time for trolling and gimmicks are over; you posting in that colour is disrupting at least 1 town member in me; if you want to claim you're aiding the town in scumhunting the first thing you can do is stop provoking us by posting in that colour.

Got it?

[davesaz]

On an aesthetic level, I don't like the posting in different colors, but I don't see the value in getting worked up over it.

That said, things that are a distraction are usually scummy. I'm quite happy where my vote is right now.

[Aquanim]

On an aesthetic level, I don't like the posting in different colors, but I don't see the value in getting worked up over it.

That said, things that are a distraction are usually scummy. I'm quite happy where my vote is right now.

So you don't see the value in doing anything about it, but you think it's scummy?

What is your read on acryon at the moment?

[SpitFire216]

TSO, Mala, and Pasch are town. Spitfire is scum. Acryon might be scum. Changed my mind on Aqua halfway through. Will evaluate as I go.

Vote Spitfire216

Pasch is town I agree, the Mala one I only half agree, and TSO I don't think is town.

Acryon I'm not sure.

Care to explain what makes me different from the rest? Is it my cunning wit? Because that is a valid answer and I will townread for flattery.

[Aquanim]

...
Pasch is town I agree, the Mala one I only half agree, and TSO I don't think is town.

Acryon I'm not sure.

Care to explain what makes me different from the rest? Is it my cunning wit? Because that is a valid answer and I will townread for flattery.

Care to explain what makes TSO different from the rest?

[SpitFire216]

He's the one who started it.

[Aquanim]

What is your reason for thinking that that makes him scum?

[SpitFire216]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

I'm not sure where Bulb got his straight townread from.

If you look at Mala and Nether, they at least have done other things besides play around, and they were merely following the joke. With Mala being the stronger town of the two.

Which leaves us with agree on Mala, half agree on Nether, and disagree on TSO.

[SpitFire216]

Or no, nevermind the Nether, I confused him with Pasch. Their avatars are weird.

[Aquanim]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

That's not at all what your original reason was. I want you to tell me why you think the fact that TSO started it is scum-indicative.

Also, up until about 15 minutes ago, literally all you had done was comment on people claiming scum and said something about waffleghost.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpitFire216

[SpitFire216]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that town gains from messing around like that. It muddies the water. All it does is take the target off your back, and if somebody questions it? "We're just fooling around, why would you take that seriously?" It's not a town motivated movement, it's just a method of cover.

Now, as to your accusation about what I've done so far. It is two different stories. TSO has posted regularly throughout and has failed to do anything productive, while I simply wasn't here. And when I came back, I was talking to Bulb, so don't try and mesh those two stories together.

That being said, I want my answers from Bulb, the only mention he made of me in that post was that I was scum. I want to know how he got from point A to point spit is scum.

[Luca Blight]

Been working non-stop recently, and will be over the next few weeks so I'm trying to find time for Mafia at the moment.

Just got in and it's late, so I will try and catch up in the morning before I go back to work.

[Aquanim]

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that town gains from messing around like that. It muddies the water. All it does is take the target off your back, and if somebody questions it? "We're just fooling around, why would you take that seriously?" It's not a town motivated movement, it's just a method of cover.

It sets up an environment in which (at least some) scum may not feel comfortable posting. Many things you can do on page 1 are a complete waste of time - I view what actually happened as having some worth.

Now, as to your accusation about what I've done so far. It is two different stories. TSO has posted regularly throughout and has failed to do anything productive, while I simply wasn't here. And when I came back, I was talking to Bulb, so don't try and mesh those two stories together.

Actually, comparing your activity I think you've been here just as regularly as TSO, if not more.

This isn't a townread of TSO, nothing he's done so far moves him very far from null to me. I'd certainly like to see more productive stuff from him in the near future. However, I find your reasons for scumreading him completely unconvincing.

[SpitFire216]

If I was full on scumreading him, aqua, I'd be voting him.

[Aquanim]

I don't think you have particularly believeable reasons to be scumreading him at all, full-on or not. However, I'm willing to put that aside for the moment.

What are your thoughts on this argument of mine?

...
I don't see much curiosity in acryon's posts towards working out how anyone else is thinking, and I don't see any pressure (one of these three people is probably scum? please). The point he is chasing doesn't even seem very worthwhile (it's "interesting" rather than scummy).

[SpitFire216]

That argument doesn't really seem to hold up. If he is interested in the way pasch answered the questions, then he is trying to figure out how pasch is thinking.

Now, as for the pressure, you might have a point there. And with the post about drawing scum roles normally, he doesn't really give a good gut vibe.

But all in all I don't think I could take up arms with that argument in mind.

[Aquanim]

That argument doesn't really seem to hold up. If he is interested in the way pasch answered the questions, then he is trying to figure out how pasch is thinking.
...

My point is that I don't see the scumhunting purpose behind it. What possible answer could Pasch give that would be alignment-indicative on him or anyone else?

A harsh summary would be "pointless excuse for content".

[SpitFire216]

If I were to defend him, I would say that he wasn't the one who made the fuss out of him saying the word "interesting".

[Aquanim]

Okay, let me go back to his first post. Perhaps this will explain what I mean better.

...
1. For what it's worth, I think only confident scum would initiate. I don't think newb-scum would feel comfortable doing it.
2. Only experienced town would initiate this. I don't see the fooling around coming from newb-town.
3. The questions are fine. Questioning is good.
4. The questions are a little too meta for me. Especially if the player is good/experienced, the fooling around will never be a tell either way.

I find Paschendale's answers to these questions very interesting, especially saying "definitely not" to #2.

I would not be surprised at all if one of Mala/TSO/Nether was scum. In fact, if the initiator (TSO) is town, then I would say it is almost a certainty that either Nether or Mala are scum. Seems like an easy way to do some mild buddying with town.

In his first post he throws away an observation that the answers are "very interesting". This post does not require or even invite a response from Paschendale, and it's entirely unclear what acryon is actually thinking about the issue. It looks a lot to me like somebody trying to look like they're doing something productive, but with no actual scum-hunting purpose behind the observation.

[SpitFire216]

That's an awful lot to derive from a sentence, and while your logic is clear, I find it unlikely that even if acryon was scum, he went through all that trouble for that.

[Aquanim]

I think I'll put this back for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: acryon

[Malakittens]

Well, I know why I avoid playing with people who decide playing in colors is perfectly fine. One thing people don't know about me is my colorblindness, not that any of the colors are triggering it to an extent. Plus the green does give me a headache to read. >.>

Just if you can stop the colors that would be great. I have once gotten using different color texts banned from a game and i probably have no problem pleading my case to bbt at this point.

[davesaz]

On an aesthetic level, I don't like the posting in different colors, but I don't see the value in getting worked up over it.

That said, things that are a distraction are usually scummy. I'm quite happy where my vote is right now.

So you don't see the value in doing anything about it, but you think it's scummy?

Mention that it's a problem one time, sure. But if the player starts running through the rainbow, I'm not interested in getting into that argument.
I do believe that a distracting posting style can be scummy. My vote is on Waffle.

What is your read on acryon at the moment?

Don't have one. There has been enough posted that I'll be able to start.

[Shinobi]

Dave asking Mala if she plays by gut is really weird, since he played with her not even a game ago and should have a reasonable idea of what to expect.

Pasch suggesting that only scum promotes policy lynches is weird too. Scum weird, though I may be biased.

More to come later at a time that isn't 3 AM.

[T S O]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

I'm not sure where Bulb got his straight townread from.

If you look at Mala and Nether, they at least have done other things besides play around, and they were merely following the joke. With Mala being the stronger town of the two.

Which leaves us with agree on Mala, half agree on Nether, and disagree on TSO.

Okay, so you're calling me scum here for "claiming scum and yelling at waffle." And, that's terrible and all, but that could just be you as a player, rather than your alignment.

But then in your third sentence, you justify not scumreading both Mala and Nether because they were "following the joke." That's bullshit. If you're going to call it a joke then what you're saying here is "People who start jokes are scummy but those who follow them aren't!" That is the only way that scumreading me but not then makes sense. It's also absolute horseshit.

And, as well as that, trolling does have its benefits - namely, if it looks forced, it can give an early scumread, and vice versa. And, yeah, it's fun. Can you point out which of these makes scum more likely to do it? Because in a later post, you say it's 'muddying the waters' or something like that. Muddying what waters? The waters where we all make random votes and give obscure reasons?

I really hate this post, because your logic does not add up whatsoever, and it's not due to lack of understanding/being bad, it's you deliberately misinterpreting what's going on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpitFire216