Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[Mathdino]

Man forget about the game and rest.

^Goodposting

[Wake]

Can a hydra head go on limited access?

I can post, but not when in severe pain.

[TellTaleHeart]

copper:

@TTH
Sure, if you check House's games you will likely notice a very dogmatic approach to mafia, he seems to have a list of do's and don'ts on subjects like lurkers, bans, townblocs, RVS... and if you "don't" he will call you out for it, regardless of what exactly you are saying, like Acryon with: bans are not alignment indicative

but

... and then he gives a read on Pastro, House just ignores the but and slams Acryon for using bans to get reads, he does this on multiple occasions with players he townreads or scumreads. That was the focus of Acryon's scumread based on misrepping, to me that just shows he is scumhunting in his own way, what I called his "persona", so it's more likely town indicative. You can see a complete change in the way he writes when he explains he is not an experienced player, i.e. when he is not in House scumhunting mode.

Your point on read consistency and being aimless is totally different though, and I'd like to see where that line of questioning goes.

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House

is

very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTHeart, can you explain this read on Gravity? I agreed with his vote of Pastro, but really didn't like his unvote after NRG called him out. Very little to go on for a town read to me.

He didn't unvote after "NRG called him out," the reason Gravity gave in post 196 was that he was waiting to hear from Pastro's replacement.

Regardless of the accuracy of the Pastro read, I can sympathize with the read. Also, there's an internal consistency with the reads system here because of the townread on MathDino in post 128.

[Cane + Able]

I don't want to let down my hydra partner.

My body is breaking down, and I've been in intense pain for the last few days. Once I can get enough rest I'll have the energy to get into this game. I've been virtually bedridden when I'm not working because of the immense physical work that has been taking it's toll on me. My legs have been throbbing in pain since last evening, and it's tough to focus because of it. I will get into this game. It wouldn't be good to keep replacing out.

Get your rest, bro. I wasn't trying to nag you into playing, just wanted you to know you were being addressed.

- House

[copper223]

@TTH

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House is very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Fair enough, the basis for Acryon's case was in my opinion a personality trait, I can see it as not being alignment indicative as welll, although I will generally give people the benefit of the doubt if it looks like scumhunting in their own way.

I'll let C+A answer about his read progression, it doesn't seem too outlandish from my pov.

[Cane + Able]

copper:

@TTH
Sure, if you check House's games you will likely notice a very dogmatic approach to mafia, he seems to have a list of do's and don'ts on subjects like lurkers, bans, townblocs, RVS... and if you "don't" he will call you out for it, regardless of what exactly you are saying, like Acryon with: bans are not alignment indicative

but

... and then he gives a read on Pastro, House just ignores the but and slams Acryon for using bans to get reads, he does this on multiple occasions with players he townreads or scumreads. That was the focus of Acryon's scumread based on misrepping, to me that just shows he is scumhunting in his own way, what I called his "persona", so it's more likely town indicative. You can see a complete change in the way he writes when he explains he is not an experienced player, i.e. when he is not in House scumhunting mode.

Your point on read consistency and being aimless is totally different though, and I'd like to see where that line of questioning goes.

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House

is

very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

If you are expecting any sort of logical flow and predictability from me, you are in for a wild ride.

Example: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59502

[Cane + Able]

copper:

@TTH
Sure, if you check House's games you will likely notice a very dogmatic approach to mafia, he seems to have a list of do's and don'ts on subjects like lurkers, bans, townblocs, RVS... and if you "don't" he will call you out for it, regardless of what exactly you are saying, like Acryon with: bans are not alignment indicative

but

... and then he gives a read on Pastro, House just ignores the but and slams Acryon for using bans to get reads, he does this on multiple occasions with players he townreads or scumreads. That was the focus of Acryon's scumread based on misrepping, to me that just shows he is scumhunting in his own way, what I called his "persona", so it's more likely town indicative. You can see a complete change in the way he writes when he explains he is not an experienced player, i.e. when he is not in House scumhunting mode.

Your point on read consistency and being aimless is totally different though, and I'd like to see where that line of questioning goes.

So, what it feels like you're talking about is a personality thing. I think House

is

very dogmatic and rigid, but I think that would be the same whether he drew a red card or a black one. At least in F2F mafia, I find that people's personalities don't really change between alignment, but the way their reads fall out does (not sure if I'm wording it well or not). My hang-up with him is that there's this recent voting pattern (GGG and then Rudolph) that I don't really know how to sympathize with. Why was GGG never mentioned again while Rudolph is the vote for a pretty strange reason?

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

If you are expecting any sort of logical flow and predictability from me, you are in for a wild ride.

Example: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=59502

Summary:

Day 1: Solid play
Day 2: Chaos
Day 3: Risky business
Day 4: Dead (I think)

[GGG]

VOTE: Rudy
No, but you're scum for trying to lynch a claimed PR (which would make the cop macho if he's telling the truth).

Has scum ever tried to lynch a power role after a claim? I've seen town who are com biased do it because they are so sure on their read but never scum, it's too obv scum.

[GGG]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

There are 2 other scum and I'm not feeling a C+A lynch today. Who else is scum?

You're the closest we've got to a confirmed town, you noping the hell out of this thread because people don't believe your one (1) scumread is not helpful.

Pushing others to make cases for him but also narrowing parameters. This allows him to get discussion going on his suspects without him starting it

[GGG]

Aggressive defence of who? C+A?

Definitely see why you may have issues with me this game. I need a perceived townsperson to talk to if there's no one already confirmed. Wisdom was it in 575 (yes I know I was wrong) and C+A is it this game. I will say that I'm much more confident in this read than the Wisdom one.

Why do you need a perceived townie to talk to. This goes back to the post above where you are pushing Arcy to make the reads for you. I will have to read your meta you are referring to but it seems like a good way to absolve yourself from doing the dirty work

[GGG]

Other reads. I have TTH as leaning town, boo kitty leaning town, really like boos read of texcat. Not sure if it's quite scum yet but it's what was bugging me about his play.

Really want milk to post as NRG was a early scumread for me.

[Bookitty]

Okay, MathDino, I will get to the general one-word summary and the meta read later today. I don't swear it will be just one word for each, but it will be shorter. I haven't the time at the moment for that, but:

Not Really Good: So much theory talk. Telling people how it is, how it was and how it will be. Then reads Gravity as scum, which is counter to all I saw in the thread. I don't see any other real reads on people. Lean-scum here.

Because I think IdiotKing is probably town (as I said, I've felt the same way and I've been accused with the Amished tell when I was town before) I feel better about GGG based on GGG's defense of Constantine (now IdiotKing) previously. Also, my townread on Acryon makes GGG's defense of him look townie, because it didn't occur as a half-hearted attempt at the end. It was pretty consistent imo.

If I've missed any questions, please let me know.

[Bookitty]

Also, Wake: Please take time and feel better. We value your input, but your health matters a lot more than a game. <3

[acryon]

VOTE: Rudy
No, but you're scum for trying to lynch a claimed PR (which would make the cop macho if he's telling the truth).

Has scum ever tried to lynch a power role after a claim? I've seen town who are com biased do it because they are so sure on their read but never scum, it's too obv scum.

I definitely get what you're saying here, but I could still see a lynch going through on a PR that claimed D1. Because D1 claims are impossible to prove without a double CC in this case, it would be very easy for me as scum to claim the role, and float on it for a few days until a CC happened or I could prove I saved someone, which would 1) need some great luck if decided privately or 2) just be avoided by scum/WIFOM/etc. While I don't personally think Rudy pushing me after my claim was scummy, I don't think it gives him town-points because I don't think scum would never do it.

[Bookitty]

As requested, the tl;dr version of my reads.

Acryon. Town. Not a lynch for today even if I’m wrong.

Aneninen. Lean-town, want to see more to confirm this.

Cane + Able. Lean town.

copper223. Town

CultivationTheory/TellTaleHeart. Lean town primarily for taking on C +A and being open with reads as TTH.

GGG/Newbie: Lean town.

Gravity: Lean town. Not lynching today anyway.

Constantine/Idiotking: Town.

Texcat: Scum

Pastro/Rudolph: Lean scum

Mathdino: Leaning scum based on what I’m seeing as a conciliatory tone that I don’t see in the other games he linked me up to.

Not Really Good: Lean scum.

VOTE: texcat

[theelkspeaks]

OP Updated with replacements.

Vote Count 1.11
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (3)

- Mathdino, Cain + Able, acryon

GGG (3)

- Rudolph the Reindeer, texcat, TellTaleHeart

Gravity (1)

- My Milked Eek

texcat (2)

- Idiotking, bookitty



Gravity still needs replaced due to prod non-responsiveness.

Deadline should be in five days from this post. Unfortunately, I'm having some trouble with the countdown tag, but I'll get one going as soon as I can!

[Bookitty]

Thank you, Mod! The updated list is awesomely helpful

[TellTaleHeart]

Hm, it seems Rudolph left when I walked in.

Was it something I said? o_O

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

Ah, sorry left for a bit until replacements arrived. I'll read up

[TellTaleHeart]

Bookitty

, I left a question for you and it probably got lost in the ether because I started the post by addressing it to copper.

Constantine/Idiotking: Oh, Constantine. Really? Amished tell in first post by Idiotking. I dunno, I've felt similarly when I replaced bad town. I like his postings though, which actually makes me feel better about GGG.

Non-sequitur

. How does Idiotking's alignment influence the GGG read? I do not follow.

[Bookitty]

Because I think IdiotKing is probably town (as I said, I've felt the same way and I've been accused with the Amished tell when I was town before) I feel better about GGG based on GGG's defense of Constantine (now IdiotKing) previously.

Also, my townread on Acryon makes GGG's defense of him look townie, because it didn't occur as a half-hearted attempt at the end. It was pretty consistent imo.

I did, but I want to make sure you see the answer.

[TellTaleHeart]

If you are expecting any sort of logical flow and predictability from me, you are in for a wild ride.

Seems that you don't take much after your namesake, then.

I guess we can start with why your Rudolph and MathDino reads are the way they are.

[TellTaleHeart]

Because I think IdiotKing is probably town (as I said, I've felt the same way and I've been accused with the Amished tell when I was town before) I feel better about GGG based on GGG's defense of Constantine (now IdiotKing) previously.

Also, my townread on Acryon makes GGG's defense of him look townie, because it didn't occur as a half-hearted attempt at the end. It was pretty consistent imo.

I did, but I want to make sure you see the answer.

*sigh*, apologies. It's one of those days...

Alright, well I what I'm wondering now is how you're getting to the endpoint of "GGG is town" from "GGG is defending someone I think is town." How are you ruling out GGG, as scum, defending someone he knows is town for towncred?

[Bookitty]

Because it wasn't done in the way I associate with scum defending someone for towncred. GGG actually said that Constantine/IK slot was his STRONGEST townread. That's pretty definite and it's not the sort of thing someone would say while playing the "NEVER lynch PlayerA!" (go ahead and lynch him) "No, Don't vote him! Don't!" (lurk, I don't care) game.

Let me know if I need to clarify this more.