Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

V O T E C O U N T

1 . 0 4

[/b]

(3)

Spitfire216 —

Netherspite, Bulbazak, T S O

(L-3)

(2)

WaffleGhost —

davesaz, Shinobi

(L-5)

(2)

davesaz —

Malakittens, acryon

(L-5)

(1)

Shinobi —

Luca Blight

(L-6)

(1)

acryon —

Aquanim

(L-6)

(3)

Not Voting —

SpitFire216, Paschendale, WaffleGhost

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

Mod Notes; Luca Blight is V/LA until 6/12

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-15 23:00:00)

[Paschendale]

Acryon, your scumreads seem almost entirely based on first page joking, and I don't think any of them are valid. Meanwhile, both I and Aquanim have pointed out places where you're not being clear. Use names instead of lots and lots of pronouns. It will make you more clear.

I mentioned death miller because I claimed that on page 1 as well, but you don't think that claim is scummy. That you're choosing some joke claims to focus on and not others without distinguishing why some are better or worse than others is definitely suspicious to me.

It was previously noticed that Spitfire was kind of defending you earlier.
Now you are defending him.
It makes me thinking that you're his partner rather than you're both town.
And thus your argument that he was not defended earlier does not help much with invalidating this opinion.

I went back and looked for this, and yeah, it's a little fishy.

[acryon]

Acryon, your scumreads seem almost entirely based on first page joking, and I don't think any of them are valid. Meanwhile, both I and Aquanim have pointed out places where you're not being clear. Use names instead of lots and lots of pronouns. It will make you more clear.

Pronouns exists for a reason. As long as the context is clear, which it has been, you should be able to figure it out. That being said, I have elaborated where you thought I needed elaboration, so hopefully you won't be trying to use this against me going forward.

And this is a completely absurd thing you are saying:
"Acryon, your scumreads seem almost entirely based on first page joking"
My

two

scum-reads: 1) Dave(primary) and 2) One of Nether/Mala (secondary).
So one (the lesser) of my

two

scum-reads is based on theory behind the first page joking and somehow my "scumreads seem almost entirely based on first page joking." You're grossly misrepresenting what I am actually saying.

I mentioned death miller because I claimed that on page 1 as well, but you don't think that claim is scummy. That you're choosing some joke claims to focus on and not others without distinguishing why some are better or worse than others is definitely suspicious to me.

Do I really have to explain how 3 people "claiming scum" on day 1 and pretending to be scum together isn't exactly the same as one person showing up after and "claiming death miller"? I think you are being purposefully ignorant here. The whole point behind the scum-reads on those three is the opportunity to gain as scum from the interaction between players, which obviously doesn't exist when one person claims a solitary role that, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist.

[T S O]

@T S O:

Can I get some thoughts on anyone else (that is, besides Spitfire) from you? Just as long as it's interesting I don't really mind who.

Sure. Bulbazak is a nulltown read, emphasis on the null. Hope you get some fun out of that one.

Bulb said he wasn't really buying it, and I don't need to sell it to him. If he thinks I'm lying about how I say I feel about TSO, that's his prerogative, and I don't mind.

I simply don't get why you wouldn't try to sell something to someone if you believe in it whatsoever - explain?

I made a few comments about my suspicion on TSO for initiating the claiming scum joke.

Can you make a few more? Because I also made a few comments regarding it, and I didn't see anything since them which addresses my points.

TSO is probably the most interesting of the mix, and we'll see how he responds to my questions.

I don't remember you asking any questions and I highly doubt I'm going to go through your ISO to look for them - I'll be nice and let you quote them.

Bulb is someone I feel fine in throwing into the town ring.

I think the majority of people in this game, experience or no, need to take a step back and realise that what Bulba has done so far is easily faked as scum. This is from somebody who has played scum with him, and from someone who has also won as scum doing something like it.

You can't just go "Oh, cool, he's asking questions which aren't awful, townpile." Don't do it. You might catch one scum member,maybe, but the others will just slip underneath you easily.

[Aquanim]

@T S O:

Can I get some thoughts on anyone else (that is, besides Spitfire) from you? Just as long as it's interesting I don't really mind who.

Sure. Bulbazak is a nulltown read, emphasis on the null. Hope you get some fun out of that one.
...
I think the majority of people in this game, experience or no, need to take a step back and realise that what Bulba has done so far is easily faked as scum. This is from somebody who has played scum with him, and from someone who has also won as scum doing something like it.

You can't just go "Oh, cool, he's asking questions which aren't awful, townpile." Don't do it. You might catch one scum member,maybe, but the others will just slip underneath you easily.

I was kind of hoping for an opinion on someone who'd done something meaningful so far. That being said I think the above is accurate.

[SpitFire216]

I simply don't get why you wouldn't try to sell something to someone if you believe in it whatsoever - explain?

I don't think you (or maybe me) understand what we meant by selling. He doesn't believe that I actually believe what I said, he doesn't buy it. I'm not going to attempt to get him to believe it because it won't do any good. Time is better spent convincing people of scumspects.

Can you make a few more? Because I also made a few comments regarding it, and I didn't see anything since them which addresses my points.

...

I don't remember you asking any questions and I highly doubt I'm going to go through your ISO to look for them - I'll be nice and let you quote them.

You say it could just be me, but you voted me anyway.

At what point did the lack of logic move from a stupid person read to a scum read and why?

You pretty much did exactly what I said you would do anyway, you saw someone fighting the joke, and you snapped at them for it.

That was the original question I posed.

I think the majority of people in this game, experience or no, need to take a step back and realise that what Bulba has done so far is easily faked as scum. This is from somebody who has played scum with him, and from someone who has also won as scum doing something like it.

You can't just go "Oh, cool, he's asking questions which aren't awful, townpile." Don't do it. You might catch one scum member,maybe, but the others will just slip underneath you easily.

While I'd agree that I shouldn't say bulb is conftown because of his actions, I should still be able to read townreads as town. There has to be some confidence in the reads, because all emotions can faked.

The word of warning is good though. I only see town motivation in giving that.

[Netherspite]

You asked for my case on you, I've posted it and also asked a few questions.
Why did you ignore the post completely?

[Bulbazak]

Was it so hard to add the part about me being opportunistic to your original vote?

I don't see why I had to or why you're making it such a big deal.

Would you go through that much trouble to use the word "interesting" to look like you were doing something?

Depends on if he's faking scumhunting or not.

Red text is terrible of course. I don't support policy lynches, but it's actively making the game worse for everyone, so he should just stop.

sup

Somebody will ask about my meta so:
I have one newbie on MS.net as vanilla town, here.
I also have about half-a-dozen games offsite, all vanilla town. I don't want to link that forum here; my newbie game above is representative of my play in any case.

Why would we ask about your meta?

I agree that this from Aquan is very weird. Weirdly proactively defensive.

I changed my mind. This is definitely scum.
...

Which is scum, me or acryon?

Acryon.

I need more from Luca, dave and shinobi before I can really start feeling around.

Why do you need to wait from those 3 before you can scumhunt?

I changed my mind. This is definitely scum.

Not sure which one of us you're talking about, but either way, where is your vote? Currently, your vote is on Spitfire because he "is scum" without any other reasoning. This post from you seems to imply you have a reason to believe one of me/Aquan is definitely scum. If one of us is definitely scum, I fail to see why you would ever not have your vote on the person who is "definitely scum".

There is more than 1 scum in the game, and I only have 1 vote. Why can't I have multiple scumreads and push them equally?

The fact that there are so many people worried about talking about me rather than the person they are voting for is concerning. Spitfire is almost definitely newbtown lynchbait. If there was a textbook definition of it, it would probably be him in this game.

It's so cute that you want to defend your scum buddy, but you should really learn to distance.

I also find it interesting that Acryon is more concerned about defending himself and surface play, rather than figuring out other players' motivations and intent. It reads very artificial.

[SpitFire216]

You asked for my case on you, I've posted it and also asked a few questions.
Why did you ignore the post completely?

TSO's was shorter.

Not ignored, just haven't gotten there yet.

I'll get back to you, no worries.

[Aquanim]

@Spitfire

, I'd also like an answer to my #150; the question may not have been clear so I'll rephrase it.

Supposing that you are town, you have a townread on Bulbazac. He is scumreading you presently.

Considering that he is a reasonably skilled player as town, why and how do you think he is misreading your alignment?

[Luca Blight]

@Mod

- I'm gonna have to go V/LA until Saturday - there's no chance I will have time to catch up until then.

~Noted. Thanks.

[Shinobi]

Seriously, so many walls.

I'll try to deal with this game tonight.

[acryon]

It's so cute that you want to defend your scum buddy, but you should really learn to distance.

I also find it interesting that Acryon is more concerned about defending himself and surface play, rather than figuring out other players' motivations and intent. It reads very artificial.

Call me crazy, but there's just something about mislynches I don't like.

Not sure which one of us you're talking about, but either way, where is your vote? Currently, your vote is on Spitfire because he "is scum" without any other reasoning. This post from you seems to imply you have a reason to believe one of me/Aquan is definitely scum. If one of us is definitely scum, I fail to see why you would ever not have your vote on the person who is "definitely scum".

There is more than 1 scum in the game, and I only have 1 vote. Why can't I have multiple scumreads and push them equally?

So are you saying that both myself and Spitfire have an equal chance of being scum? Because "definitely scum" seems a lot more confident than "is scum". I wish I could speak to your level of suspicion on either of us more, but you have provided approximately zero analysis so I'm left with your word choice.

[Paschendale]

By this point, I could definitely see Acryon as scum, though he's not my top choice.

[Netherspite]

And who is?

[T S O]

@Spitfire

, I'd also like an answer to my #150; the question may not have been clear so I'll rephrase it.

Supposing that you are town, you have a townread on Bulbazac. He is scumreading you presently.

Considering that he is a reasonably skilled player as town, why and how do you think he is misreading your alignment?

What answer do you expect from this question which could possibly benefit you?

[T S O]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

I'm not sure where Bulb got his straight townread from.

If you look at Mala and Nether, they at least have done other things besides play around, and they were merely following the joke. With Mala being the stronger town of the two.

Which leaves us with agree on Mala, half agree on Nether, and disagree on TSO.

Okay, so you're calling me scum here for "claiming scum and yelling at waffle." And, that's terrible and all, but that could just be you as a player, rather than your alignment.

------------------------------------

But then in your third sentence, you justify not scumreading both Mala and Nether because they were "following the joke." That's bullshit. If you're going to call it a joke then what you're saying here is "People who start jokes are scummy but those who follow them aren't!" That is the only way that scumreading me but not then makes sense. It's also absolute horseshit.

And, as well as that, trolling does have its benefits - namely, if it looks forced, it can give an early scumread, and vice versa. And, yeah, it's fun. Can you point out which of these makes scum more likely to do it? Because in a later post, you say it's 'muddying the waters' or something like that. Muddying what waters? The waters where we all make random votes and give obscure reasons?

I really hate this post, because your logic does not add up whatsoever, and it's not due to lack of understanding/being bad, it's you deliberately misinterpreting what's going on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpitFire216

Hey, Spitfire, I added a cut-off line to this post which should get you to see where your logic goes from "bad at game" to "scum."

[Bulbazak]

It's so cute that you want to defend your scum buddy, but you should really learn to distance.

I also find it interesting that Acryon is more concerned about defending himself and surface play, rather than figuring out other players' motivations and intent. It reads very artificial.

Call me crazy, but there's just something about mislynches I don't like.

That still says nothing about your lack of trying to figure out other players' motivations and intent.

So are you saying that both myself and Spitfire have an equal chance of being scum? Because "definitely scum" seems a lot more confident than "is scum". I wish I could speak to your level of suspicion on either of us more, but you have provided approximately zero analysis so I'm left with your word choice.

You both are equally strong reads. Why the intense focus on semantics? Word choice is a very good way to fake scumhunting, since you're not actually trying to figure out the other player's motivation.

[Aquanim]

@Spitfire

, I'd also like an answer to my #150; the question may not have been clear so I'll rephrase it.

Supposing that you are town, you have a townread on Bulbazac. He is scumreading you presently.

Considering that he is a reasonably skilled player as town, why and how do you think he is misreading your alignment?

What answer do you expect from this question which could possibly benefit you?

I'll answer this after he answers the question, otherwise there isn't much point.

[Paschendale]

And who is?

Definitely Spitfire. But as I said, if it seems too easy, I get cautious.

Word choice is a very good way to fake scumhunting, since you're not actually trying to figure out the other player's motivation.

Agreed.

[Shinobi]

Okay, I'm here. Give me a minute.

[Malakittens]

... 22 mins later

[Shinobi]

Hey shut up.

[Malakittens]

No, why don't you do something then you have the right to tell me to shut up.

[Shinobi]

So much sass.

I'm getting to it.