Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[Tempest]

What are your updated thoughts on Shinobi and do you have any opinion on zayzack?

[davesaz]

From that last bit, that doesn't sound very townShinobi.

Wow so bm.

When asked what this meant, you replied "google it". There are several things which could fit, what did you mean?

[davesaz]

TSO, Mala, and Pasch are town.

Why are these town reads at this point?

(Malakittens, why did you ask me why I read you as town, but didn't budge at Bulbazack's town read of you?)

Because I have played with Bulba before and I know he can decently read me because he has experience with me as playing both alignments against him/sharing the same alignment, whereas, you whom I have never played with had this townread on me and I wanted to dig your brain in regards to it

Is your experience being scum with Bulba helping this game?

[davesaz]

"TvT" is an indirect term I use to describe someone I find to be defending their beliefs in an adequate or reasonable manner. In normal circumstances, the player pressuring a lynch target is town for obvious reasons, so I just kind of took to saying "TvT" without considering the consequences for scumreading the opposing side.

As of right now, I'm not particularly sure where I stand on Nether. I'd need more time to elaborate on my read on him.

I've been reading the standard usage of TvT is both sides are town and it is used most often in the context of tunneling with the attacker being town. You're using it to mean the defender is town while saying nothing about the attacker's motives? Do you usually use the term this way?

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:
Should probably unvote until I do so.

Hi.

Google it.

Current reads off the top of my head:
Nether - Null
Tempest - Town
Aqua - Town
Mala - Town
Pasch - Scum
Bulb - Null

Everyone else hasn't posted enough or isn't interesting. I actually had a townread on your slot so don't let me down.

I don't see any action taken with respect to your only scum read. Planning to engage at some point?
I'm seeing quite a difference in your play from Open 570.

[Aquanim]

...

Despite his reasonable level of activity I see very little curiosity or probing for answers in Pasch's posts, especially the more recent parts of his ISO (now there's more information on the table, I'd expect to be seeing more questions, not less). I mean, there are some queries (see post #258 for instance) but nothing which convinces me he's thinking really seriously about catching scum.

What about my conclusions do you think isn't genuine and what information do you think I don't know that I ought to be asking about? I have three fairly strong scumreads and not much reason to stray from them. From where I'm sitting, this game looks fairly open and shut.

tl;dr I don't feel any real commitment to your reads. For starters, your choice of words (particularly about Spitfire) feels like you're hedging your bets a lot.
The way I see it, a townie has the responsibility to be doing at least one of the following:
1) attempting to improve their reads, if they are unsure
2) attempting to push a lynch, if they are sure (enough)
I don't really see either from you. Sure, the Spitfire lynch has (or had) a number of people on it, but it's never had a huge amount of momentum and seems to be dying a bit now. I see no concern in your posts about that, or indeed as to who we lynch at all.

Also, why do I have to talk about Nether in order to change my opinion on him? It's changed more since taking my vote off of him, but I have no need to mention it since there's not really a serious discussion of his alignment going on. Likewise, my position on Spitfire was changing, not from what I was saying about him, but from what I was reading from him. There's been a lot of summary posts in this game, but don't mistake me not doing that for me not considering what's in the thread carefully. It seems like the only issue you have with me is that I'm being kind of quiet. Sometimes I do that.

The point is that if there'd been some immediate misunderstanding and the reason you were scumreading Nether evaporated, it would plausibly just be an RVS vote in your mind. Without that I have serious difficulty imagining the town mentality that simply forgets it had a reason its vote was no longer random.

EBWOP: I find it far easier to believe that a scum Paschendale seized the opportunity to throw some mud in #71 but didn't remember doing it (and committing to the vote being serious) by the time #156 rolled around.

Why do you think my alignment would affect my memory?

This seems kind of obvious... but I think it's much harder to forget the reasons why you're scumreading someone as opposed to forgetting a throwaway comment you didn't believe in (because scum).

[Xayzeck]

Did you advance in catching up? Any reads/thoughts?

Yall bickering about post colour is kinda dumb

6 pages in

I like Bulba and Mala the most

[Malakittens]

TSO, Mala, and Pasch are town.

Why are these town reads at this point?

(Malakittens, why did you ask me why I read you as town, but didn't budge at Bulbazack's town read of you?)

Because I have played with Bulba before and I know he can decently read me because he has experience with me as playing both alignments against him/sharing the same alignment, whereas, you whom I have never played with had this townread on me and I wanted to dig your brain in regards to it

Is your experience being scum with Bulba helping this game?

I don't think I ever been scum with Bulba by sharing an alignment I meant us being town together. I'm sorry I should have clarified that.

I'm still leaning town on Shin~ I'm waiting for Xay to catch up. I have exp with him and I can read him, but it comes with time.

[T S O]

Tests finish today, activity begins today! Rejoice, my minions.

[Xayzeck]

I'm still leaning town on Shin~ I'm waiting for Xay to catch up. I have exp with him and I can read him, but it comes with time.

You can read scumMe, but in Wikipedia Newbie you scumread townMe.

Plus it's been a while

[BlueBloodedToffee]

V O T E C O U N T

1 . 1 0

[/b]

(3)

Xayzeck —

Netherspite, T S O, Paschendale

(L-4)

(3)

davesaz —

Malakittens, acryon, Luca Blight

(L-4)

(1)

WaffleGhost —

davesaz

(L-6)

(1)

Luca Blight -

Bulbazak

(L-6)

(1)

Paschendale —

Aquanim

(L-6)

(3)

Not Voting —

Xayzeck, Tempest, Shinobi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

Mod Notes;

• acryon is V/LA until 15/12

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-15 23:00:00)

[Xayzeck]

The fact that there are so many people worried about talking about me rather than the person they are voting for is concerning. Spitfire is almost definitely newbtown lynchbait. If there was a textbook definition of it, it would probably be him in this game.

Does this still stand?

[Aquanim]

The fact that there are so many people worried about talking about me rather than the person they are voting for is concerning. Spitfire is almost definitely newbtown lynchbait. If there was a textbook definition of it, it would probably be him in this game.

Does this still stand?

He's V/LA for the next four days.

Anything you want to ask me in the meantime? Depending on how tomorrow pans out you might not get an answer for the better part of 24 hours, but ask away.

[Aquanim]

Oh, also, what do you like about Mala this game?

[Xayzeck]

Anything you want to ask me in the meantime? Depending on how tomorrow pans out you might not get an answer for the better part of 24 hours, but ask away.

Eh, not too much from what I've caught up on.

What are your reads like? I kind of like Pasch too, so what's he done that you want to lynch him?

With deadline approaching, which wagon are you most likely to compromise with, since I don't think a Pasch lynch will happen.

[Xayzeck]

Oh, also, what do you like about Mala this game?

She did that wall early on in the game, and I like her though process and the transparency.

Speaking of walls

this game has too damn many of them

so this will take a while, it'll also be a pain

[Aquanim]

Anything you want to ask me in the meantime? Depending on how tomorrow pans out you might not get an answer for the better part of 24 hours, but ask away.

Eh, not too much from what I've caught up on.

What are your reads like? I kind of like Pasch too, so what's he done that you want to lynch him?

With deadline approaching, which wagon are you most likely to compromise with, since I don't think a Pasch lynch will happen.

You could... I dunno, read any of the posts I've made about Pasch in the last page or two. I don't see the point in repeating myself. What do you like about his posts?

As for other people... trying to read you, mala, bulb or tso seems to be a complete waste of time since that group only seems to care about meta reads on one another, Shinobi can hang but that's half policy for his repeated dodging, I wouldn't feel bad about lynching acryon, I'd consolidate onto Luca or dave if I really had to. Nether and Tempest seem towny enough but I haven't had time to read half of Tempest's walls properly so take that with a grain of salt.

So far as I can see there

aren't

any wagons at present, at least none anybody's going to any effort to push. There are a couple of votes lying around on your slot and davesaz but nobody's campaigning for an actual lynch. We're getting close enough to deadline that that is bothering me.

[Xayzeck]

Well, Pasch also had a wall early on in the game, and his analysis was sound, I liked it. Felt like town to me.

I haven't read anything except:
Catching up
What I reply to since replacing in

So yeah, what's wrong with repeating yourself?

What's wrong with meta reads?

Right then, start pushing something. Top scumread that isn't Pasch, since that clearly hasn't gained any traction, unless you want to push it in 4 days to make it for deadline.

[Aquanim]

Well, Pasch also had a wall early on in the game, and his analysis was sound, I liked it. Felt like town to me.

If that's the depth of your analysis I'm excited to see who you

don't

think is town.

So yeah, what's wrong with repeating yourself?

It's literally the last thing I've been posting. I'm not going to waste time and thread space requoting myself. One-line summary: no feeling of commitment behind his reads, he's pushed absolutely nothing and he "forgot" his original Nether vote was no longer a pure RVS.

What's wrong with meta reads?

That's not really my point. Don't try to pretend you give a damn what my read on, say, Malakittens is, except insofar as it reflects on me.

Right then, start pushing something. Top scumread that isn't Pasch, since that clearly hasn't gained any traction, unless you want to push it in 4 days to make it for deadline.

Yeah, I tried that with Shinobi and nobody was listening there either. And acryon; people were receptive to that but nobody actually voted for him IIRC. My name and meta clearly aren't prestigious enough to accumulate willing sheep, so somebody who does have those can start putting some effort in.

[Aquanim]

To be fair, Bulbazak did make an effort with the case on Luca but got no more traction there. Between the VLAs, the recurring dodgers, and the replacements there's very few players to make traction with, it seems.

[Xayzeck]

If that's the depth of your analysis I'm excited to see who you don't think is town.

Haha, I would go through it but I don't think that's particularly important. It's early-game reads, and I don't think it's that relevant in the current gamestate.

It's literally the last thing I've been posting. I'm not going to waste time and thread space requoting myself. One-line summary: no feeling of commitment behind his reads, he's pushed absolutely nothing and he "forgot" his original Nether vote was no longer a pure RVS.

Right, I'll catch up asap and check it out myself, remind me if I forget.

That's not really my point. Don't try to pretend you give a damn what my read on, say, Malakittens is, except insofar as it reflects on me.

What is your point then? I also don't get that second line.

Yeah, I tried that with Shinobi and nobody was listening there either. And acryon; people were receptive to that but nobody actually voted for him IIRC. My name and meta clearly aren't prestigious enough to accumulate willing sheep, so somebody who does have those can start putting some effort in.

Haha, I don't think an acryon wagon would take off even with a good scumcase really, since there's going to be "He's V/LA til deadline, whoever is pushing this is scummy as fuck" for sure.

[davesaz]

I think Shiobi is pretty scummy. Not really scum hunting and his play is completely different from a game where we were both town.

VOTE: Shinobi

[Aquanim]

That's not really my point. Don't try to pretend you give a damn what my read on, say, Malakittens is, except insofar as it reflects on me.

What is your point then? I also don't get that second line.
[/quote]
My point is that even if I were totally convinced that someone like you or Mala were scum, and wrote up a case, I'm pretty sure I'd get no interest or support from any of the people I listed since they're all convinced they're just going to read one another with meta. Goes double for day 1, though I do think lynching into the most experienced players day 1 is typically a bad move anyway.

Yeah, I tried that with Shinobi and nobody was listening there either. And acryon; people were receptive to that but nobody actually voted for him IIRC. My name and meta clearly aren't prestigious enough to accumulate willing sheep, so somebody who does have those can start putting some effort in.

Haha, I don't think an acryon wagon would take off even with a good scumcase really, since there's going to be "He's V/LA til deadline, whoever is pushing this is scummy as fuck" for sure.

The case was before he went V/LA and still more or less holds. I dislike that going V/LA somehow puts you in the "safe zone" where you can't get lynched but since that seems like site meta I'm not rowing upstream against it.

[Xayzeck]

My point is that even if I were totally convinced that someone like you or Mala were scum, and wrote up a case, I'm pretty sure I'd get no interest or support from any of the people I listed since they're all convinced they're just going to read one another with meta. Goes double for day 1, though I do think lynching into the most experienced players day 1 is typically a bad move anyway.

Ahh, I see.

So then, are you trying to tell me you've got a super strong scumread on Shinobi and someone else in {Bulba, Mala}?

I, however, would be totally find with lynching him if there's a good case against him. If what you said about the dodges and lurking is true, then despite them being bad lynches, I would lynch lurkers if there's a good reason to.

[Xayzeck]

I think Shiobi is pretty scummy. Not really scum hunting and his play is completely different from a game where we were both town.

VOTE: Shinobi

Who are you sheeping?