Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

V O T E C O U N T

1 . 1 1

[/b]

(3)

Xayzeck -

Netherspite, T S O, Paschendale

(L-4)

(3)

davesaz -

Malakittens, acryon, Luca Blight

(L-4)

(1)

Luca Blight -

Bulbazak

(L-6)

(1)

Paschendale -

Aquanim

(L-6)

(1)

Shinobi -

davesaz

(L-6)

(3)

Not Voting —

Xayzeck, Tempest, Shinobi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

Mod Notes;

• acryon is V/LA until 15/12

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-15 23:00:00)

[Xayzeck]

Vc

no it's not u liar

[Xayzeck]

Ok maybe I can get behind a Pasch lynch

Anyway I'm down with a cold, halfway through the game. My readlist is gonna have to wait for tomorrow probably, sorry guys. I'll read in bed til I fall alseep, so I should be able to get 75% ish done before tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

Pfft. Lazy.

[Aquanim]

So then, are you trying to tell me you've got a super strong scumread on Shinobi and someone else in {Bulba, Mala}?

No. I'm vaguely leaning town on Bulbazak and Mala hasn't given me anything much I can read. The point is I could sink preposterous amounts of time into analysing them and maybe end up with better reads but at this stage I don't see what purpose it would serve.

If nothing else, I'd like to lynch Shinobi because if he's town then of all the townies in this game he's the one I'd feel least bad about mislynching, because he's putting in negligible effort. That inherently makes him an okay chance to flip scum in my book, too.

His overreaction to my challenging his read on Netherspite (which I also still maintain was not good) was... odd. We don't have direct history offsite.

[Shinobi]

You're negligible.

[Xayzeck]

Pfft. Lazy.

Put your vote on someone before I catch up

[Xayzeck]

If nothing else, I'd like to lynch Shinobi because if he's town then of all the townies in this game he's the one I'd feel least bad about mislynching, because he's putting in negligible effort. That inherently makes him an okay chance to flip scum in my book, too.

So what's the scumcase? He's half assed?

[Shinobi]

In a minute. I'm reading stuff.

[Xayzeck]

V O T E C O U N T

1 . 0 6

[/b]

(3)

Spitfire216 —

Netherspite, Bulbazak, T S O

(L-4)

(2)

davesaz —

Malakittens, acryon

(L-5)

(1)

WaffleGhost —

davesaz

(L-6)

(1)

Shinobi —

Luca Blight

(L-6)

(1)

acryon —

Aquanim

(L-6)

(1)

Netherspite -

Shinobi

(L-6)

(3)

Not Voting —

SpitFire216, Paschendale, WaffleGhost

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

Mod Notes;

• Luca Blight is V/LA until 6/12
  acryon is V/LA until 15/12

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-15 23:00:00)

It's been 10 minutes tardypanta

[Xayzeck]

That typo and vc shouldn't be there

None of you see it

I like Aqua more, I'm not sure about Mala defending Shinobi, feels buddyish

[Shinobi]

Dave's line of questioning in the last page is weird, especially the part where he says my play is different from the last time we played together without elaborating on why. His only valid point is me not really talking to Pasch, which...Kind of makes sense I guess, even though Pasch had some weird nondescript issue with me before he even brought up the bias thing or whatever. I don't know. I'd like him to elaborate on what he finds different about my play in 570 because Mala is saying the opposite, and Mala has never gotten my alignment wrong.

If I had to lynch someone right now, it'd probably be Pasch for saying my stuff is shady without elaborating on why. I'm probably biased though.
VOTE: Pasch
Just for the sake of letting people know where I stand as of right now.

Xayzeck votes are still bad and I've elaborated on why.

Nobody lynches until Luca catches up again and TSO actually does things, etc.

Pedit: Mala and I always defend each other when we townread each other. What, you think someone is going to yell at someone else just so they can buddy them when they post?

[Xayzeck]

Well considering the history you two seem to have I'd assume you want the other to townread you as scum

Also note to self, I'm at page 14 and I dislike Bulbs Luck view

[Xayzeck]

That would be Bulba's Luca Vote*

[acryon]

Don't have a ton of time now, but I'll be doing a better read-through tomorrow.

For now, I more of skimmed through and decided I could at least address some of the questions toward me, since I feel much more confident answering questions about my own thoughts than others right now due to the skim.

Re: TSO/Mala/Nether scum-read. I still feel that there is a good chance one of them is scum. I wouldn't be my life on it, but I think it is likely. The nature of that read means that I'm not going to push very hard on any one of the three for now, as 1) two of the three are quite experienced, so they know how to respond accordingly a scum, and 2) the fact that there are still 3 means I'd be sort of trying to shoot fish in a barrel. My reasoning for pointing all of this out early on was

never

to try and push one of them D1. It was to put the idea out there for everyone to keep in mind as the game progresses, as I think it could be critical later on in working some things out. It also happened to help push the game out of RVS, which I certainly didn't mind either. Maybe people will disagree with waiting off and not trying to push one/all of them today, but I think that would do much more to obfuscate the other scum than it would to reveal which of the three were scum, at least this early.

Given I should be doing a more thorough read-through tomorrow, if anyone does have any specific questions for me, please feel free to post them today/tonight and I'll answer those tomorrow as well.

[acryon]

Also, Xayzeck: Your avatar is tripping me out.

[Shinobi]

Well considering the history you two seem to have I'd assume you want the other to townread you as scum

Also note to self, I'm at page 14 and I dislike Bulbs Luck view

Or she's town.

I'm not keen on this idea because I don't know how you intend to tell the difference between "buddying" and two people townreading each other.

[Paschendale]

tl;dr I don't feel any real commitment to your reads. For starters, your choice of words (particularly about Spitfire) feels like you're hedging your bets a lot.
The way I see it, a townie has the responsibility to be doing at least one of the following:
1) attempting to improve their reads, if they are unsure
2) attempting to push a lynch, if they are sure (enough)
I don't really see either from you. Sure, the Spitfire lynch has (or had) a number of people on it, but it's never had a huge amount of momentum and seems to be dying a bit now. I see no concern in your posts about that, or indeed as to who we lynch at all.

The wagon looks fine to me. What really has me concerned is that I have yet to see any good explanation of the Dave wagon, but every time I ask for clarification of the case on him, it's simply ignored.

The point is that if there'd been some immediate misunderstanding and the reason you were scumreading Nether evaporated, it would plausibly just be an RVS vote in your mind. Without that I have serious difficulty imagining the town mentality that simply forgets it had a reason its vote was no longer random.

And as I'm explaining to you, the vote was never random. But it was in the RVS phase. That is, it was based on very little information and now I have a lot more. Nor was there an immediate moment. It was gradual.

This seems kind of obvious... but I think it's much harder to forget the reasons why you're scumreading someone as opposed to forgetting a throwaway comment you didn't believe in (because scum).

Obvious to you. Made up bullshit with no bearing on reality to me. This whole thing seems to be fabricated nonsense. You're lying about the nature and quality of my votes. You're asserting something incredibly subjective as a rule about behavior. And you're selectively ignoring points I've made. I think the much bigger question is, are you scum or are you just not paying attention?

[T S O]

I'm back.

[Bulbazak]

Ebwop: on average it's more likely town.

Though hello Freudian slip, is that my subconscious telling me acryon is in fact scum? :p

This is the first thing you've said that's made me question my town read on you. This seems a little nervous and self-conscious, as if you noticed you made a mistake and are being quick to divert attention from it before anyone else notices.

Though is this seriously the only comment or question you have on anything I've posted?

If you're town, and this is really all you've gotten from what I've posted, my ego might be bruised.

To be fair, I've liked most of your posts and have you as town.

But I do have a parting query for Bulb, do you really see a connection between me and acryon or are you twisting our mentions of each other to suit your individual scumread on both of us? It seems like you're fitting that puzzle piece in by force, so I'm asking, does it really fit there or do we need to break out the crazy glue?

I do see a connection. Granted, it's not the strongest connection, but I find the way you two defend each other to be abnormal.

How was it abnormal?

The defense seemed to come out of nowhere and didn't feel like town defending a townread. It was more of a "protect them from the big bad Bulba" sort of defense.

TSO, Mala, and Pasch are town.

Why are these town reads at this point?

Because of how natural their posting was. This is a huge town tell for TSO. Mala has a tendency to hide in the background as scum, and her being so up front and interacting with people gave me town vibes. As for Pasch, he tends to have a hard time beginning the game as scum, and I would expect a level of artificialness from him, which I didn't get.

I think Shiobi is pretty scummy. Not really scum hunting and his play is completely different from a game where we were both town.

How is his play different?

If I had to lynch someone right now, it'd probably be Pasch for saying my stuff is shady without elaborating on why. I'm probably biased though.

For someone that complains about stupid reasoning, you're prone to following it yourself.

Also note to self, I'm at page 14 and I dislike Bulbs Luck view

How so?

Add Xayzeck to the town pile. I would be good with an Acryon lynch if no one wants to lynch Luca-scum.

[T S O]

Re: TSO/Mala/Nether scum-read. I still feel that there is a good chance one of them is scum. I wouldn't be my life on it, but I think it is likely. The nature of that read means that I'm not going to push very hard on any one of the three for now, as 1) two of the three are quite experienced, so they know how to respond accordingly a scum, and 2) the fact that there are still 3 means I'd be sort of trying to shoot fish in a barrel. My reasoning for pointing all of this out early on was

never

to try and push one of them D1. It was to put the idea out there for everyone to keep in mind as the game progresses, as I think it could be critical later on in working some things out. It also happened to help push the game out of RVS, which I certainly didn't mind either. Maybe people will disagree with waiting off and not trying to push one/all of them today, but I think that would do much more to obfuscate the other scum than it would to reveal which of the three were scum, at least this early.

I still don't get why you are saying this - I have no idea why you feel trolling is more likely to come from town than scum. It makes no sense at all, and you never explained it.

[Aquanim]

Obvious to you. Made up bullshit with no bearing on reality to me. This whole thing seems to be fabricated nonsense. You're lying about the nature and quality of my votes. You're asserting something incredibly subjective as a rule about behavior. And you're selectively ignoring points I've made. I think the much bigger question is, are you scum or are you just not paying attention?

Which points am I selectively ignoring?

[Aquanim]

I dunno... does anyone else here buy that Paschendale can think I'm scum over this case?

[Aquanim]

EBWOP: I also don't think he actually addressed any of my arguments in #517: he's asserted I'm wrong without any actual evidence to the contrary. Vote stands for now.

[Aquanim]

I appreciate it's been turned into this big... thing, but it bothers me that the first thing acryon wants to talk about on his return is that initial three-way read rather than anything relevant to today's lynch.

I don't think I find it scummy so much as just frusturating.

(m-m-m-m-multipost. I'm gonna stop now.)