Newbie 1561: Puppies! (Game Over)

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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Post by Epic Warrior »

In post 68, copper223 wrote:@Singer
I was waiting for Cabd to follow up because if an IC jumps on this train he is ver likely scum, and to see what you would do after calling what is happening interesting, because I'm trying to understand if you are also waiting for people to jump on it to call them scum or if you are trying to break it up as soon as possible before a maybe less experienced partner gets caught in the bait.

So either way you're saying he's scum?
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:03 pm

Post by Epic Warrior »

In post 74, copper223 wrote:
Not fond of Cabd tbh because is designed to make me think he is town while not really giving a read on my alignment.

Theory question: Why would you expect him to give a read?
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:08 pm

Post by copper223 »

@Epic
Cabd? If he did jump probably, not doing so would be slightly townie but too little time passed and his probing post could be read either way.

Because figuring out alignments is the objective of the game.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:09 pm

Post by Cabd »

If you'd actually done the meta on me you seemed to be chomping at the bit to do, you'd have known that post 73 was in fact a light read on you.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:10 pm

Post by Cabd »

More specifically, you're reminding me of myself in Xenoblade.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Post by copper223 »

fair enough, I'll check that out.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Post by Cabd »

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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:54 pm

Post by toolenduso »

Image


Vote Count 1.4Epic Warrior (1): copper223
choof (2): ++--, paulw556
paulw556 (0):
++-- (0):
copper223 (0):
singersigner (1): mallowgeno
mallowgeno (1): singersigner
JasonWazza (2): Cabd, choof
Cabd (0):

Not voting (2): Epic Warrior, JasonWazza

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: December 24, 7:40 a.m. Pacific Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2014-12-24 07:40:00)
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:57 pm

Post by choof »

cats master race

species




w/e
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:01 pm

Post by choof »

I'm conflicted with what Cabd's doing at the moment. As IC, obviously you have to be a guiding light of sorts for new players, but as a player yourself, you'd want to win for whatever team you're on.

Are you telling someone about your meta so they can learn how to meta someone with a bias, or are you deliberately feeding them a bad meta?
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:02 pm

Post by choof »

without a bias*
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:16 pm

Post by singersigner »

In post 26, copper223 wrote:I agree ++--, so it looks to me like ++-- is thinker and Paul is a spontaneous player, reads on them should be developped according to these baselines.

I'd like you to elaborate on this. What makes you think this is the way to develop reads on them, and have you been able to do so?

In post 29, copper223 wrote:@Paul
That's probably fairly accurate.

What was your impression of Singer saying I had a strong start but might be trying to trap Cabd because I asked him for a fairly specific meta?

I didn't see an answer to this, but I'd like to know your own opinion.

In post 45, Epic Warrior wrote:
In post 38, copper223 wrote:
@Eric
Is it natural to try to lead as town?

It's natural to do whatever comes naturally. I don't know anyone's meta, so perhaps this is what he does.
However, to be super-cautious of not leading does not seem to be natural.
I don't know if this is what he's doing, since I don't know how he usually plays. Also, like I said earlier, I think it's a bit early for anything but extremely vague reads. I am not saying he's scum, or even suspicious. I'm just making an observation to help move things along, which (I think) is the point of the RVS. If I'm doing this wrong, tell me :)

I like the bolded. Not only do I agree with it, but I like how you're analyzing the game so far. Don't hold back observations. That being said, the whole "baiting" thing by withholding information really pisses me off because it's like "oh I was purposefully acting scummy or being coy DUH" which is just a lame excuse for "oh shit you caught me." You haven't done this, I was just making a point based off of previous posts.

In post 67, Cabd wrote:Singer, did you read all the mod posts at the very start of the thread or no?

Yes? I actually had to go back to see if I missed anything...why?

copper223 wrote:Is town_Singer more likely to a) pick up on your play and keep quiet about it to see if someone jumps on the wagon or b) is she going to be oblivious about it and continue to scumhunt, if a) then her behavior here is more scum indicative, if b) towny.

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

I'm pretty town. :]
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:39 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3, toolenduso wrote:
Just wanted to clarify that the scum and dead threads will be in QuickTopics, not private topics. While I like PTs, there was a bit of a mix-up at the beginning of the game as to which one to use and
we're going with QTs
.




In post 14, singersigner wrote:Though it should be known that this point is mute because if he didn't officially confirm because he was talking in
his PT
, as a mod I'd consider that a form of confirming nowadays, as a way to sidestep that kind of "confirmation" issue. Just saying.


Also it's "moot" not "mute" but that's neither here nor there.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:41 am

Post by ++-- »

In post 68, copper223 wrote:@Singer
Yep, I have to ISO you because if you are really good there's a pretty good chance of you being scum here.

Choof's play is likely town, there is no reason as mafia to go around naked screaming lynch me as he did, unfortunately the fish he got are the two players that might genuinely believe he is scum, so the bait did not work. If I had to guess they are all town.

I was waiting for Cabd to follow up because if an IC jumps on this train he is ver likely scum, and to see what you would do after calling what is happening interesting, because I'm trying to understand if you are also waiting for people to jump on it to call them scum or if you are trying to break it up as soon as possible before a maybe less experienced partner gets caught in the bait.


However, at the very same time, EXACTLY by pointing out what you waited for, you ruined the whole point of waiting, didn't you? I understand that you were specifically asked about what are you waiting for, but, at the same time, maybe you could've said it with less details?
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:48 am

Post by ++-- »

In post 84, choof wrote:I'm conflicted with what Cabd's doing at the moment. As IC, obviously you have to be a guiding light of sorts for new players, but as a player yourself, you'd want to win for whatever team you're on.

Are you telling someone about your meta so they can learn how to meta someone with a bias, or are you deliberately feeding them a bad meta?


Okay, I get that you're basically trying to construct baits, but just one question: do you seriously expect an IC to answer something like 'deliberately feeding a bad meta'? And, if, what I find more likely, this was a rhetorical question: what was the point?
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:58 am

Post by ++-- »

In post 86, singersigner wrote:
Don't hold back observations. That being said, the whole "baiting" thing by withholding information really pisses me off because it's like "oh I was purposefully acting scummy or being coy DUH" which is just a lame excuse for "oh shit you caught me."


Why would withholding information in order to get better reads be acting scummy?
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 am

Post by choof »

In post 89, ++-- wrote:
In post 84, choof wrote:I'm conflicted with what Cabd's doing at the moment. As IC, obviously you have to be a guiding light of sorts for new players, but as a player yourself, you'd want to win for whatever team you're on.

Are you telling someone about your meta so they can learn how to meta someone with a bias, or are you deliberately feeding them a bad meta?


Okay, I get that you're basically trying to construct baits, but just one question: do you seriously expect an IC to answer something like 'deliberately feeding a bad meta'? And, if, what I find more likely, this was a rhetorical question: what was the point?


In post 11, Cabd wrote:
This means I
WILL NOT
lie to you about game theory, proper practices, and the like.
...

I will use that nice blue color whenever my post is meant as an IC post and not as a player playing this game post. If it's in my blue, it's factual theory stuff, not game play content.

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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:44 am

Post by choof »

tl;dr yes I expect an answer to that post and preferably not from anyone except Cabd
it's not a bait post, I'm not sure how you could read it as such
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:14 am

Post by Epic Warrior »

In post 77, copper223 wrote:
@Epic
Because figuring out alignments is the objective of the game.

Let me rephrase my question. Why would you expect him to
give
you a read? i.e., why would he tell you what his read was on you?

In post 72, copper223 wrote:Is town_Singer more likely to a) pick up on your play and keep quiet about it to see if someone jumps on the wagon or b) is she going to be oblivious about it and continue to scumhunt, if a) then her behavior here is more scum indicative, if b) towny.


Couldn't she scumhunt by seeing who jumps on the wagon?
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:48 am

Post by mallowgeno »

Sorry guys it's been finals week, so I'm gonna be a bit distant until Wednesday. :s
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:54 am

Post by toolenduso »

Prodding JasonWazza.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:43 am

Post by singersigner »

In post 90, ++-- wrote:
In post 86, singersigner wrote:
Don't hold back observations. That being said, the whole "baiting" thing by withholding information really pisses me off because it's like "oh I was purposefully acting scummy or being coy DUH" which is just a lame excuse for "oh shit you caught me."


Why would withholding information in order to get better reads be acting scummy?

1. Because it pisses people like me off when trying to read people with all the information I have.
2. Because I'm specifically commenting on being called out for coy/non-committal behavior and then dismissing it as doing it on purpose. If you're not committing and beating around the bush or saying you're doing something to "bait" someone, it's basically giving yourself an excuse to do something scummy "on purpose" and get away with it, which I don't ever trust.

Cabd wrote:
In post 3, toolenduso wrote:
Just wanted to clarify that the scum and dead threads will be in QuickTopics, not private topics. While I like PTs, there was a bit of a mix-up at the beginning of the game as to which one to use and
we're going with QTs
.




In post 14, singersigner wrote:Though it should be known that this point is mute because if he didn't officially confirm because he was talking in
his PT
, as a mod I'd consider that a form of confirming nowadays, as a way to sidestep that kind of "confirmation" issue. Just saying.


Also it's "moot" not "mute" but that's neither here nor there.

Ah, wouldn't I just love that to clear me?? But I just defaulted to PT specifically because Mina and I had just talked about how it still says QT in the mod PMs that are sent out to start a game (or role PMs, I can't remember which). And since the site rolled over to PTs as a standard, she wanted to make sure it was just an oversight, and then that it didn't matter because it was up to the mod's discression. Little did I know she was talking about this game! But yeah...you probably shouldn't read too much into it unless you want to?

That's weird...how do you tell someone not to confirm you as town because of a weak reason to confirm you...as town... :shifty:
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:55 am

Post by JasonWazza »

Sorry guys completely didn't even notice this was a thing, relying on egoposting isn't a good thing, i will post here within a day, dunno know if it will be straight away.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:45 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 84, choof wrote:Are you telling someone about your meta so they can learn how to meta someone with a bias, or are you deliberately feeding them a bad meta?


This is a game question not a theory question, but I can speak in generalities. Please remember to bold questions of theory in the future to help me find them in your posts.

Generally, most players don't bother to lie about meta because all posts from our prior games are publicly visible. All you have to do is click a player's username and then select "show this yser's threads" and read away for a sense of their games as each alignment. That said, there are a few players on this site who intentionally play off-meta to confuse players using this technique. Nachomamma8 would be one example.



Anyways, in this case, there's no bias per say. I declared, in this case, a read of matching another player's meta to my meta. It's not "meta (or bad meta) for a read on cabd" it's "you remind me of how old-cabd approached towngames, here's a link showing the old me I'm seeing in you"

You're making a logical fallacy here, so I ask you, choof.

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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:49 am

Post by toolenduso »

Bow wow wow wow!
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