Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[davesaz]

So what happened to nether wagon.

I for one gave it time to see if anyone else would be revealed as more scummy, but would be perfectly comfortable with going ahead with lynching Nether if it came to that. Christmas seems to have killed activity so we didn't really gain anything yet.

We could almost no-lynch and let the PRs work it out, if it weren't likely they would choose the same target or the vig might kill one of the other PRs. But I'd rather get the information from a lynch to help them decide what to do.

[T S O]

Can people who are town reading TSO refresh my memory on why? We've been pushing Nether for moving from Pasch to Luca, but doing nothing about TSO who was also doing everything in his power to save Pasch and wasn't aiming at someone who flipped scum. Isn't it more likely for scum TSO to aim at town than for scum Nether to aim at fellow scum?

I was busy pushing the third scum?

[Aquanim]

Can people who are town reading TSO refresh my memory on why? We've been pushing Nether for moving from Pasch to Luca, but doing nothing about TSO who was also doing everything in his power to save Pasch and wasn't aiming at someone who flipped scum. Isn't it more likely for scum TSO to aim at town than for scum Nether to aim at fellow scum?

Bulbazak, Mala, Shinobi and Xayzeck are firmly townreading him for reasons they have not adequately explained, and without their votes there is no way to lynch TSO today, so I've dropped it. If I thought the votes were there I would lynch TSO in a heartbeat.

[T S O]

I think it's because your case was conclusively proved wrong/you were conclusively proved a fool.

[Aquanim]

You think many things.

[T S O]

They're usually right.

[Aquanim]

Bored now.

I tried to read this game and could not last night - I guarantee I will do it today.

Did you do this?

[T S O]

I did.

[Aquanim]

UNVOTE: Netherspite

[davesaz]

Can people who are town reading TSO refresh my memory on why? We've been pushing Nether for moving from Pasch to Luca, but doing nothing about TSO who was also doing everything in his power to save Pasch and wasn't aiming at someone who flipped scum. Isn't it more likely for scum TSO to aim at town than for scum Nether to aim at fellow scum?

Bulbazak, Mala, Shinobi and Xayzeck are firmly townreading him for reasons they have not adequately explained, and without their votes there is no way to lynch TSO today, so I've dropped it. If I thought the votes were there I would lynch TSO in a heartbeat.

Well, I hope they get in here and explain. They can't all be scum, but they sure as hell could all be wrong.

[davesaz]

Can people who are town reading TSO refresh my memory on why? We've been pushing Nether for moving from Pasch to Luca, but doing nothing about TSO who was also doing everything in his power to save Pasch and wasn't aiming at someone who flipped scum. Isn't it more likely for scum TSO to aim at town than for scum Nether to aim at fellow scum?

I was busy pushing the third scum?

I assume you're referring to me, since I haven't seen you try to push anyone else?

If you really think you were pushing the 3rd scum, then get off your ass and try to lynch me. You'll still be wrong, but it would be better than sitting around doing nothing.
If you can't do that, and people think Nether is town, then we need to pick another target and get it done. I've nominated you:

• Avoiding Pasch wagon
  
• Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)
  
• General lack of scum hunting otherwise

[T S O]

-Avoiding Pasch wagon

Why is this a reason for being scum? Just summarise it.

-Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)

My push on you ...wasn't particularly halfhearted, it reflected the fact I was busy as exams were on during at that time. I made that information public - you know that - why are you pushing it as a scumtell again?

-General lack of scum hunting otherwise

Generalised bull like this will get you nowhere but the noose - I am sure you would like to tell me that you have been scumhunting night and day while I lie in the scum parlour with hookers and wine, but it's simply not true.

[davesaz]

Time is running out to get something going.

I'd consider TSO and Acryon to be good choices.
If scum isn't one of them, then we still had a pretty good case on Nether and I think we're possibly letting him off too easy.
Beyond that we get into reasonably good town reads but a lot of people have faded more than I'd expect from just Christmas down time.

Mala and Shinobi are somewhat borderline. They act townish but it's easy to see scum maybe getting by at that level.
To get to scum being Aquanim or Bulba they'd need to be playing for an epic gambit to get town cred in endgame, against a really powerful town.

[Xayzeck]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

[Malakittens]

its k im scum at heart

[davesaz]

-Avoiding Pasch wagon

Why is this a reason for being scum? Just summarise it.

-Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)

My push on you ...wasn't particularly halfhearted, it reflected the fact I was busy as exams were on during at that time. I made that information public - you know that - why are you pushing it as a scumtell again?

-General lack of scum hunting otherwise

Generalised bull like this will get you nowhere but the noose - I am sure you would like to tell me that you have been scumhunting night and day while I lie in the scum parlour with hookers and wine, but it's simply not true.

1. Distancing, of course. How hard can that be to figure out?

2. And after exams finished? You could have been digging up all the scummy things I've done and trying to convince others. Unless, of course, you can't find anything I've done that was actually scummy.

3. I'm pretty sure you're not doing

that

. But are you even looking at what other people have been doing? Suppose it's not me, who else might be scum? Compare how I have 3 people who might be scum, I'm digging at the one I think is more likely to be scum but also pursuing other angles. And I have reasons to town read the people I'm not interested in lynching today, and they're more than just meta. You're trying to say I'm not scum hunting?

[davesaz]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

[T S O]

oh my god your case is so BAD but I still have to respond to it

I'll do it in a bit - you can continue misintepreting Xayzeck's posts til then

[Aquanim]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, Dave; there are people in this game who want to lynch TSO and those who don't, and I doubt you'll shift anyone from one camp to the other.

In other news,
VOTE: Acryon
I think I like this more than Nether today.

[Aquanim]

inb4 tso makes some perjorative post about the group of people who want to lynch him

[acryon]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, Dave; there are people in this game who want to lynch TSO and those who don't, and I doubt you'll shift anyone from one camp to the other.

In other news,
VOTE: Acryon
I think I like this more than Nether today.

I still think the play today is a combination of Lynch/Vig/Role-check/JK on me/TSO/Nether/Shinobi. I think it is so much much better than us not discussing it, which it seems no one is interested in doing for some reason. This way, we clear/kill literally every person with suspicion on them. I obviously prefer not being lynched, and I would think me bringing up a plan that would almost 100% make me lose if I am scum would be enough to make me one of the non-lethal targets, but either way I think this plan needs to happen. Otherwise we risk double-stacking or leaving it up to the bias of the PRs.

[Shinobi]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

This whole angle is meh. I don't see anything wrong with trusting your townreads.

[Xayzeck]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

I'm not confident in reading TSO through meta 100% accurately, I'd say it's like a 65%, but if Bulba and Mala, people who play with TSO a lot more and are more familiar with his play townread them too, I'm more confident that TSO is town. They can't all be scum, at MOST only 1 of them is scum.

You catch my drift? Or are you gonna ignore it and make me look bad

[T S O]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, Dave; there are people in this game who want to lynch TSO and those who don't, and I doubt you'll shift anyone from one camp to the other.

In other news,
VOTE: Acryon
I think I like this more than Nether today.

I still think the play today is a combination of Lynch/Vig/Role-check/JK on me/TSO/Nether/Shinobi. I think it is so much much better than us not discussing it, which it seems no one is interested in doing for some reason. This way, we clear/kill literally every person with suspicion on them. I obviously prefer not being lynched, and I would think me bringing up a plan that would almost 100% make me lose if I am scum would be enough to make me one of the non-lethal targets, but either way I think this plan needs to happen. Otherwise we risk double-stacking or leaving it up to the bias of the PRs.

Assuming we're not PR's ...?

[davesaz]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

I'm not confident in reading TSO through meta 100% accurately, I'd say it's like a 65%, but if Bulba and Mala, people who play with TSO a lot more and are more familiar with his play townread them too, I'm more confident that TSO is town. They can't all be scum, at MOST only 1 of them is scum.

You catch my drift? Or are you gonna ignore it and make me look bad

That's a reasonable answer to the first sentence of my post, but does not address the 2nd.

If you look at what TSO is posting, is he still town on that basis alone?

In case you haven't caught my drift, I don't think meta is ever totally sufficient. I'm willing to be shown that I'm wrong about TSO by other means. I'm not willing to let a player with clearly scummy actions skate just because a bunch of people think he's town on meta alone.