Newbie 1561: Puppies! (Game Over)

[singersigner]

That being said, I believe EW is the way to go today. His direct counterwagon was town (Drixx wasn't really competing with a wagon), so his information would give us more information than Drixx's if they're not a team.

vote: Epic Warrior

[copper223]

I like Singer as town by the way, because she is the first to brake the ++-- is town wagon that has been going on with everyone since I gave my early D1 read on him, there is no reason for scum not to happily join there and either live with him tomorrow as semi confirmed if they have to kill me or just off him tonight, this is another of the endless list of scumreads I have on EW because he of course immediately put his hands in the cookie jar as soon as ++-- moved off his wagon in favour of HI.

[Hostile Intent]

Fair enough, I follow that.

[copper223]

@EW
You are at

L-1

, I'm going to

state intent to hammer

in

48 hours

, you have till then to argue your case after which if nothing changes with the players voting for you or my personal read I will ask you to claim and likely hammer.

[toolenduso]

Boonskiies replaces JasonWazza.

[Boonskiies]

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah......WOAH! Someone should most definitely take a vote off this Epic Warrior guy. This guy is towny mc town town! I've been catching up on this thread the past like thirty-forty minutes, and I was just dying for tool to let me in (even sent him a semi-frantic text message). This lynch is

NOT

happening. I've looked at a few people's ISO's already, and I'm going to go back through some ISO's because some wanky stuff's going on here. I have some scum reads, and major town reads already. Bare with me while I check everyone's ISO's some more.

[toolenduso]

Vote Count 2.07

Epic Warrior (3): Drixx, Hostile Intent, singersigner
Hostile Intent (1): ++--
Drixx (0):
++-- (0):
copper223 (1): Epic Warrior
singersigner (0):
Boonskiies (0):

Not voting (2): Boonskiies, copper223

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Deadline: Jan. 9 at 9:35 p.m. Pacific Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-01-09 21:35:00)

[Boonskiies]

*have voted

I know that it's probably too early to do so, but I think now I'll say that, currently, I have a slight townread on copper for his generally helpful comments and questions, and, at the same time, not trying to lead.

Could he not be intentionally trying not to lead? Whereas a townie would act more naturally? Think it's still too early for town/scum reads. But then again, this is my first game

@Singer
I was waiting for Cabd to follow up because if an IC jumps on this train he is ver likely scum, and to see what you would do after calling what is happening interesting, because I'm trying to understand if you are also waiting for people to jump on it to call them scum or if you are trying to break it up as soon as possible before a maybe less experienced partner gets caught in the bait.

So either way you're saying he's scum?

[quote="In post 376, copper223]
@Drixx
From my recent 6/7 games, site meta is to put a player at L-1, wait for someone to declare intent and after he claims lynch if he is VT or form a second wagon if he claims PR. You jumped the gun by claiming early when apparently there wasn't enough support for your lynch, I'd advise against it in the future if you are town.

Why? Why would it be bad to claim? Why is it bad to claim early? WHY?!?!?!?!

First off, these a reasons why he is just noobtown. I stopped looking through the ISO after I realized almost everything about him

SCREAMS

noobtown.

[copper223]

Fair enough I promise not to ask for a claim and hammer until there are

24 hours

left in the day, nor should anyone else.

[Boonskiies]

Third, I have a good townread on ++-- now. His posts on the previous page show that even though he has his reads, he's not tunnel visioned and is willing to develop/change his reads.

Ok, to reply to all your comments at once, I didn't say survival at all costs. I said that we're all trying to survive. While it's not a win condition, wouldn't it be nice to play the game out rather than die D1 or D2? @copper 663: You're right I thought he was suggesting I start a counter wagon, but he was telling you that I wasn't, therefore that wasn't my plan. Sorry just misread it.

He's really trying to help. His newness is showing and I think it's an accidental trust tell. I can't be the only one seeing this, and I believe scum is taking advantage of this.

@EW
So why were you in such a hurry to vote me off?

What? Was I? And does that "so" imply new information?


@All
I see you have yet to answer my question in 674.

@copper
When HI votes me I see she gets away with a crap/nonexistent reason, but when I vote you based on a case, I have to explain?

He doesn't even know what he's doing, and is seeing the hypocrisy in others reasonings, which the reasonings are crap, by the way.

[singersigner]

Alright, I'll

unvote

until you do a proper catchup.

You ARE suggesting two major town wagons on D1, though, so I'd start with figuring out who is town and who is scum on either one.

It DOES remind me of my previous postulation that EW was genuinely scum hunting as opposed to surviving at all costs by voting only his counterwagon (mallow) until pressured to do so. So then what do you think of Cabd dying and who would kill him if not EW/Drixx?

[Boonskiies]

Just going to give some quick reads first, and I'll explain them at a later time.

Epic Warrior - town. I believe he accidentally is trust telling, and I don't see how people aren't seeing it.
Hostile Intent - town. I liked her debacle about voting Cabd, and then backing off because she thought it was dumb. Cabd is always inherently scummy to me, and I always get confused and worried with games with him. I also liked her asking Drixx about the color of the role pm.
Drixx - scum. God damn, this guy has tons of fluff that I could go on for days. Also, he hasn't really done anything other than vote for two seemingly easy targets, and the person I think his partner is.
++-- null as hell. I like a lot of the things he's done, but I can see a lot of it from a scum perspective.
copper223 - town. I've liked everything he's been doing for the most part. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything, but he's very actively scum hunting.
singersigner - my strongest scum read. opportunistic, manipulating the conversation how she wants, in a way that she can play the fake clueless townie. Her posts about Cabd are fake as hell, and nothing really is coming off as genuine for me.

[Boonskiies]

^ Was hard to read, so here.

Just going to give some quick reads first, and I'll explain them at a later time.

Epic Warrior - town. I believe he accidentally is trust telling, and I don't see how people aren't seeing it.

Hostile Intent - town. I liked her debacle about voting Cabd, and then backing off because she thought it was dumb. Cabd is always inherently scummy to me, and I always get confused and worried with games with him. I also liked her asking Drixx about the color of the role pm.

Drixx - scum. God damn, this guy has tons of fluff that I could go on for days. Also, he hasn't really done anything other than vote for two seemingly easy targets, and the person I think his partner is.

++-- - null as hell. I like a lot of the things he's done, but I can see a lot of it from a scum perspective.

copper223 - town. I've liked everything he's been doing for the most part. I don't necessarily agree with him on everything, but he's very actively scum hunting.

singersigner - my strongest scum read. opportunistic, manipulating the conversation how she wants, in a way that she can play the fake clueless townie. Her posts about Cabd are fake as hell, and nothing really is coming off as genuine for me.

[Boonskiies]

Alright, I'll

unvote

until you do a proper catchup.

You ARE suggesting two major town wagons on D1, though, so I'd start with figuring out who is town and who is scum on either one.

It DOES remind me of my previous postulation that EW was genuinely scum hunting as opposed to surviving at all costs by voting only his counterwagon (mallow) until pressured to do so.

So then what do you think of Cabd dying and who would kill him if not EW/Drixx?

Stop asking this. Anyone would kill him. He's the IC, and he's Cabd. I see motive for everyone in this game to kill him. Especially you.

You keep bringing it up in a way where you are acting like you'd never kill him. That's

exactly

why you

would

kill him. You are trying to play it off like only a newbie would kill him, but that's just not true.

VOTE: Singer

[Boonskiies]

Also, I'm completely caught up. skimmed through every page, looked through everyone's ISO.

[copper223]

@Boon
If both Drixx and Singer are scum, why is EW still alive?

[Boonskiies]

blue is presumed town, green

is

town, red is presumed scum, gray is null.
Let's see how this looks.

Epic Warrior

(4):

Boonskiies

,

copper223

,

++--

,

Cabd

++--

(1):

mallowgeno12

mallowgeno

(4):

singersigner

,

Hostile Intent

,

Epic Warrior

,

Drixx

Copper could turn null for me, but for now, I'm town reading.

[Boonskiies]

@Boon
If both Drixx and Singer are scum, why is EW still alive?

Why would he have died? You unvoted before Singer could hammer probably. And now it's going to look suspicious if he got hammered.

[copper223]

I'm talking about yesterday when EW was at L-1, before HI and Singer built a counterwagon on Mallow.

[Hostile Intent]

UNVOTE: Epic Warrior

[singersigner]

Sorry if I seem controlling? Can't really do much about that. *shrug*

I'm not really getting where you think Drixx is simultaneously going after an "easy target" and hard core bussing his partner.

And...I made a specific post claiming I wasn't going to hammer before copper unvoted, knowing I was going to be the hammer vote, sooooo...was that an accident, or...?

Preview Edit:
And...pretty sure I also did that yesterday, too. I'm still not getting where you think I have more incentive to kill someone who had not really any suspicion on me, and could've easily attacked for being alive "as the IC" after already expressing suspicion of him D1.

[copper223]

VOTE: Epic Warrior

[Boonskiies]

Wholey wall posts, batman!

So you guys already figured out the misunderstanding with copper's theory, but I figured I'd comment that while statistics and educated theories are great, Drixx is right that they can only get you so far. That's not to say that copper is wrong for using them to scumhunt, though I will say that it's weird you're willing to write off Jason and HI as potential scumbuddies for me and not Drixx, who came into the game with a vote on me.

It's statistically more likely that the IC will die first in Newbie Games. I have no verification on whether or not that's due to the inexperience of newbies being 'afraid' of the IC, though.

I think experienced players are more likely to allow the IC to live and create WIFOM over them still being alive, but in that case it's about whoever they feel threatened by anyway, or their confidence in their ability to manipulate the conversation with the IC still alive.

@Drixx...so you're saying you think copper lied on purpose? With that purpose being to frame you? Why bother bringing up how you

would

LAL if you still have a town read on him, unless you believe the former to be true, in which case, why did your town read on him increase so much?

@++--...why were you concerned about how early to vote someone in the day?

i dont like how this keeps getting brought up, even after you have your own answer. it's a major reason why I believe you are scum.

[Boonskiies]

I'm talking about yesterday when EW was at L-1, before HI and Singer built a counterwagon on Mallow.

it's day 1. Being at the right place for vote analysis is key. Scum doesn't want to hammer or be seen near the end of a town mislynch. HI moved it over, so in a way to seem town, Singer switched over.

[singersigner]

Oh...kay? Still not following, but maybe someone else can explain it to me in a way I can understand.

Preview Edit:
Um, I was already on mallow...