Mini 1634 - English Premier League Mafia (Game over)

[massive]

What is the actual reasoning for guyatt being scum.

I posted a fairly large post to answer this question yesterday. Did you not read it, or are you purposefully ignoring it?

[deathfisaro]

Ollie defend elk
Guyett defend Ollie
elk defend Guyett

Since Ollie flipped scum, we either have super bad townies or practically conf. scums. And the worst player in this game has to be me with only 1 completed game under my belt so I'm not buying that these people are town but playing bad. (kaboose is a different story)

And RA, you have to remember that Guyett used his power on massive and it got mirrored, it's not like scum tried to frame Guyett by post restricting him. And to be honest, even without Guyett's post restriction I was going to vote {Guyett, BBT, elk} today anyway based on Ollie stuffs (unless one of them got NK'd and flipped town, then the whole game changes). True it is too convenient, but the votes aren't coming in because it's convenient. The convenience is just ad hoc.

Guyett's still scumreading Yiley. Ollie's sincere push of Yiley gives Yiley a town sticker. Ollie was superscumming (I've been saying this all day D2 before Ollie flip) and Ollie lynching a scum still wouldn't give him enough towncred to be worth it at all.

I want to see one of {Guyett, BBT, elk} to flip to be able to read everyone else in light of Ollie and {GBe} flip, and Guyett's the only vanilla in this game as of now. So if for whatever reason you're townreading Guyett, he's still the best worst case scenario.
Also when Guyett flips scum, I think there are 4 scums (because their powers aren't that strong) and one of the surviving scum is a flavour revealer. Because whisker flavour was Guyett + Ollie's primary attack D2.

[BROseidon]

Guyett could also, like, be lying about how he used his power.

Because scum lie, and shit.

[deathfisaro]

I think that's a stretch.
He soft claimed his power earlier in the game, and claimed today that he used his power on massive. Because mod confirmed Guyett's post restriction there needs to be a post restrictor, and if it isn't Guyett someone would have counterclaimed and lynched him already.
Also massive said he doesn't have any night action mirroring powers so to make Guyett's "lie" technically possible there also needs to be a redirector. If there is no redirector then this will go down a maze but if there is one, his action also has to line up with Guyett's scenario. Another possibility is Guyett and massive are a team, but at night they didn't know if Guyett was going to get restricted so couldn't have planned it ahead so in this scenario, saying Guyett lied is backed up by massive also lying and again, that's a stretch?

Overall, Guyett would need to setup spec way too many things correctly in order for his "lie" to be feasible.
If Guyett would post something and eat a 4th strike, I'd believe that post could be a lie.

[Guyett]

VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch

VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch

VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch
VOTE: no lynch

VOTE: Death

VOTE: ollie VOTE: Elk
VOTE: Guyett VOTE: Ollie
VOTE: elk VOTE:

Guyett

[Guyett]

VOTE: No lynch

[Guyett]

VOTE: Ollie VOTE:

Bro

VOTE: Ollie VOTE:

elk

VOTE: Ollie VOTE:

Yiley

VOTE: Ollie VOTE: BBT

[Guyett]

VOTE: Bro VOTE: conf bias


VOTE: BBT

[deathfisaro]

OK so Guyett's saying 679 Ollie defended elk, Guyett defended Ollie but elk is not defending Guyett?

681 Ollie wanted to lynch Bro, elk, and Yiley but defended BBT?

682 So BBT is scum. I don't know what conf bias means in mafia context, someone who is not Guyett, BBT, elk, or BRO explains Guyett's logic it'd be best.

I understand. Voting you doesn't mean we're townreading BBT don't worry.

[Guyett]

VOTE: lynch

[Guyett]

VOTE: BBT

[BROseidon]

Guyett says he thinks I'm confbiasing town.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: Bro VOTE: conf bias

[Guyett]

VOTE: lynch

[Guyett]

VOTE: BBT

[Whiskers]

BBT stuffs:
BBT's main targets are, BRO, Yiley, and me. BRO is the target of Guyett & Ollie combo, Yiley has been an easy scapegoat whole game, I spent the entirety of day 2 going after Ollie and Ollie flipped scum. So BBT hasn't actually done any scum hunting the entire game. The only person that townread BBT for his "scumhunting" was Guyett.
BBT and Guyett were on the same wavelength the whole game I suspected the two could be masons, but now Guyett's come out with post restrictor and ate it himself they can't be masons.

Actually, I townread (past tense) BBT. He looked pretty good initially and I considered him town until he suddenly championed Ollie as "obviously town."

I like your analysis though. I should say, I think that a post-restricter, built to backfire, isn't unlikely in a bastard-mod game (which this is), and I know that town has some negative utility roles (my role, for instance). Of course, that's all speculation and impossible to prove, especially since Guyett claims only to have one-shot of it. So it really doesn't matter, does it?

Guyett using the power on himself to frame someone else would only have worked if Guyett hadn't told us he

was

the restricter. Using it on himself to avoid answering any questions is obviously suspicious. Using it on someone else (and it accidentally backfiring) is naturally scummy for the reasons you point out.

Still, Guyett's tendency (this game at least!) is not to play a particularly good or clearly-good townie. While the role is scummy in and of itself, would that be a great reason to give it to a townie? And as a townie, if you have a power, you'd likely use it-- Guyett definitely.

I dunno. I'm not saying he's town or that I actually give him the benefit of doubt or anything, I'm just trying to cover the opposite side of your case... which ultimately turned out to be "but what if you're wrong?"

*shrug*

[Whiskers]

Don't see any scum motive in what Guyett is doing. Scum already lost 1 to a modkill... why would csum risk another modkill by breaking restrictions/posting role PM.

Guyatt as scum makes no sense right now, he can't talk properly, or answer anything etc... too easy a wagon and too fast a wagon.

"Why would scum even consider doing X?" is a perfect reason for scum to do X as WIFOM. And the risk of a modkill isn't that great,

as mod already stated he's not willing to modkill again unless he absolutely has to

.

Ahh,

that's

more fuckin' like it, man.

But Guyett didn't know that, nor did anyone else at the time... he flat out expected a mod kill when he posted.

Guyett offending post was post 618 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6524444

The Mod didn't make the statement until post 639 -

21 posts later

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6525386

VOTE: eelk

This is wrong though, Red. Guyett didn't expect a modkill; the first mention of a modkill was the post after Guyett's, belonging to BBT. Guyett expected a warning-- or at least, that was what I read it as.

[Whiskers]

His shitty-ass defense of Ollie and his desperation in dissolving the wagon is pretty damning.

I'm more confident that Guyett is scum than Elk, and Guyett also is more annoying to deal with. That's like 2 reasons to want to lynch Guyett. My confidence in Elk-scum is much lower.

But why are you appealing to BBT, the

other

only person to try to dissolve the Ollie wagon? You know, the one who townread Ollie for no reason until the attention had shifted elsewhere?

What is the actual reasoning for guyatt being scum.

Sorry, I just can't get past how convienient all this is, lynch the guy who can't talk or defend himself.

It doesn't smell right.

So... does this make you our fourth scum?

Sorry, I don't mean to be flippant. Scum-read you early on, just like Guyett, until you disappeared, when I forgot about how scummy you were. I guess that makes actually makes BBT the fourth scum, technically.

You want to tell me a good reason he's

town

? I mean, I know that's not how mafia works-- it's innocent until proven guilty... usually. But I'm not sure why you're against his lynch, instead of being, at most, curious to see his flip.

[Whiskers]

elk defend Guyett

No no no no no, dude, no. No, no.

What? Elk is

attacking

Guyett circa last page. Unless you mean yesterday-- when elk didn't do anything... kind of attacked Ollie a little bit but it was a weak one. I think you're getting elk confused wiht RA here.

Also, so you can setup spec more easily, the reason my flavour is constantly revealed is because it's prt of my power. Like, a mandatory, always-fires, part of my power. It's not a revealer doing it.



Ooh, then Guyett gets interesting.
I read it as Guyett saying that he's got confirmation bias on YOU-- not that you have it on BBT. If massive is reading it right, Guyett claims Ollie defended BBT, right?

I read: the attack on BRO is conf-bias, so nevermind that. Instead, lynch BBT

(though Whiskers might have some conf-bias himself...)

Let me know if that last, bolded part is correct, Guy.

[Guyett]

VOTE: lynch VOTE: no lynch

VOTE: guyett VOTE: bro VOTE: conf bias
VOTE: bro VOTE: guyett VOTE: conf bias

[Guyett]

VOTE: BBT

[deathfisaro]

Hmm I don't know where this is going but I'm going to give Whiskers more room to get on hard scumhunting.

I'll unvote Guyett for now because Guyett's putting tons of votes because of post restriction (and too many on himself for the vote count to stay stable) and if Whiskers is being brilliant, scum might lolhammer Guyett to silence Whiskers when the vote count is juicy.
UNVOTE:

However, if detective Whiskers doesn't dig up something amazing, I'm going back.

[Ghostlin]

Also where is Ghostlin. He replaced Yiley and is really easy to read.

I'd thank you for this, but that sounds really shitty.

I'm reading and have the beginning of the semester to go through. I'm also debating whether yesterday's major event in this game was good luck or shit luck; and grumpy about the fact that my slot was used to be a shit lord.

[Whiskers]

Hmm I don't know where this is going but I'm going to give Whiskers more room to get on hard scumhunting.

I'll unvote Guyett for now because Guyett's putting tons of votes because of post restriction (and too many on himself for the vote count to stay stable) and if Whiskers is being brilliant, scum might lolhammer Guyett to silence Whiskers when the vote count is juicy.
UNVOTE:

However, if detective Whiskers doesn't dig up something amazing, I'm going back.

Oh! Oh, uh...

Actually, being a townie like you, I'm just as in the dark as you. Well pretty much. All I was doing was providing a check and counterpoint to your case-- partially because Guyett can't, and partially because it's the job of all good townies (and scum-who-want-to-look-like-townies).

So erm... how about this:
You tell me where you thought I might be amazing, and I'll focus my efforts there for a while, and see what I can dig up? Specificity is preferred to generality.

[Whiskers]

(By which I mean, instead of something general like, "Find The Scum," ask me something specific, like, "Find Links Between Kaboose and Other Players" or "Find Evidence to Support BBT's Lynch")