Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[farside22]

Hi farside.

One question. Are you mafia, werewolf, or town?

Hi.

Town.

Are you really expecting anything other then that for a response?

Hi to everyone else.
I'll be reading up later today.

[farside22]

Okay I read through, this won't be long right now because I'm not at a computer to get quotes.
So what you get is general thoughts.

Acryon, west and lyserg are strong town read.
Orc is a bit odd. Moments I go yea he's reading town and a couple of moments I went mmmmm at. Example was when he lays down votes without saying much, then ask a ton of questions when ari questioned it. Then orc says he expected someone to question him.
Okay....weird way to reaction hunt.
Ari is by far the scummiest. I believe he knew orc was reaction hunting, like I believe in Santa claus.
Fairy tale. There is more but I need quotes.

Vote: ari

Another scum read is metal and the hydra reads scummy to me as well.

[farside22]

Lal reads scummy to me. Can't put a finger more then the reads she/ he Gave.
I can't believe the mislynch comment from the ari read that is based on meta, then criticizing orc for asking about history from others, which given the convo going on would be a natural question to ask.
I sort of felt dirty reading the post because I half wondered about bias towards friends.

[farside22]

So a bigger post on why I find Ari scum

Here you see Ari discussing with Acryon about the bw vote here
but prior to that ginko asked for him to vote west
Why didn't he question Ginko's eagerness?

The we both could be evil I note this was the first but not the only time he posses a comment like this.
Yup here it iswhich tells me he is not joking


asking acryon why he wasn't looking at other the players in question were town reads of his.

Finally we have the lie about knowing orc was baiting. The reason this is a lie is based on post 53 and post 54

]

fixed -hb

[farside22]

mod: please fix the links above. Thanks!

[farside22]

Lal reads scummy to me. Can't put a finger more then the reads she/ he Gave.
I can't believe the mislynch comment from the ari read that is based on meta, then criticizing orc for asking about history from others, which given the convo going on would be a natural question to ask.
I sort of felt dirty reading the post because I half wondered about bias towards friends.

I don't think that me taking Ari's meta into account, and also scrutinizing Orcinus for asking about everyone else's meta, are irreconcilable/scummy. Using meta is fine, but I didn't see the usefulness in asking about the meta of others - I wouldn't believe anything anyone said.

What about my reads stuck you as scummy, aside from that one point? Also, when you say bias towards friends, to whom are you referring, and where do you see the bias?

Ari.
You mention meta and that's it.
One vote and insta scum read is a real stretch reading your recap of him.

I'll have to parse all this when I get home from work.
Too much to try addressing on my phone.

VOTE: Metal

So why unvote/no vote there?

[farside22]

@lyserg: I don't really explain town reads. I find it a waste unless someone is scum reading and pushing a case on said player.
As for my comment about orc.
Well I'm used to reaction hunters. But if he expected people to attack him why the quick defensive questions?
What purpose did it have? I don't recall ari responding to the questions, but I will say the hydra's response was sure wishy washy. So it's mmmm.

[farside22]

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

[farside22]

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

Can you elaborate?

Your scum.

You stated concern for miss lynch.
Used vague words when discussing your read on ari and then voted him for a naked vote.
Plus your clear as mud. The meta discuss reasoning is awful and makes no sense at all.

[farside22]

honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.

I've said more then that and I'm voting ari for an actual reason.

Your reason was naked vote bs.

You meta read on ari was vague. Show how you explained the meta as you stating it was town or scum meta.
Explain mislynch then a vote on ari with one post
Explain why multiple people who know meta about each other would have anyone lie.

You know why you can't.
Because it makes no sense
Nice omgus comment.
From town to scum based on Jack fucking shit

[farside22]

Sorry what's omgus?

Omg u suck

Basically u voted me for voting u.

honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.

I've said more then that and I'm voting ari for an actual reason.

Your reason was naked vote bs.

You meta read on ari was vague. Show how you explained the meta as you stating it was town or scum meta.
Explain mislynch then a vote on ari with one post
Explain why multiple people who know meta about each other would have anyone lie.

You know why you can't.
Because it makes no sense
Nice omgus comment.
From town to scum based on Jack fucking shit

How much of Lalendra's play do you think could be contributed to what seems to be relative unfamiliarity with at least online mafia?

I thought they came from another site that plays mafia. I recall one said something about lal always killing them.

[farside22]

I thought they came from another site that plays mafia. I recall one said something about lal always killing them.

Yeah, but not knowing OMGUS and other cues makes me think Lal is still pretty newish. Now, personally I think that parts can be attributed to that, but I still think she's scum.

Knowing she has only played one game on their site, do your feelings change?

No.

There is a case she made on orc read as cherry picking a case for crap reasoning.
Her vague response can be put under newbish.

[farside22]

Metal: I have one vote and think both ari and lal are scum.
I don't believe they are on the same team.

[farside22]

Also scum reading pawn and the hydra of cheetory.

[farside22]

Confirmation bias?
I've heard the term but don't recall what it means.

[farside22]

Confirmation bias?
I've heard the term but don't recall what it means.

Bad at explaining things but it's basically trying to find evidence to prove your own reads rather than letting the evidence form the reads.

^Johnny

I'm bad at explaining things, but the later part is a scum tell in my book.
Usually if there is a convo talking place in thread and someone ignores it and post a case based on one sided comments that's pretty scummy. I thought that was more information without analsys

[farside22]

Anyway, down to business.

VOTE: Ginko

--I'm not really sure about my Ari read at this point. I still dislike his early play, but his more recent content is so far afield of what I'd expected from him that I'm second-guessing my ability to read him. He's not a terrible lynch, but I'm leaning towards one of Ginko or Acryon at the moment, for reasons I'll hit in a second. Prawn isn't great, but there's not a lot to go on, and my read on Lalendra is pretty meh at this point. I'd probably put them both lower on my list than Ari.

--So, the thing that's bugging me the most about Ginko is that I gather both heads have played a number of games with most of you guys, and I'd have expected them to be on top of the mess I'm seeing here as Town. We're stuck in a morass of text-walls being hurled at each other, with very little purpose or effect that I can see.

Correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I feel like they're in the best position to be sorting through the game, and I don't like that they're not actively doing so. There's a bit of Townish noise, but it doesn't really seem to lead anywhere. I'd really, really like to see some more content from you guys. It wouldn't be too hard to get me to shift my vote at this point.

--I dislike Acryon's 121 - I'm not really seeing the defensiveness people were talking about, but I do dislike the way he puts his vote on Ari. His reasoning is weak, and feels more like an excuse. His response implying that he was pressuring is thin.

On the other hand, there are a few posts of his I like, mostly from when it feels like he's sorting through the game. Consider this me taking note of a bad gut read that I really need to sort through.

--I'll analyze the Lalandra case & wagon in the morning. I'm literally falling asleep at my computer right now.

Your whole case is based on expectations of a player, rather then why what they have done is scummy.

[farside22]

Metal: why does this read like lal's town game?

[farside22]

Oh, because Johnny sucks at explaining things.
@farside:
Confirmation bias is typically when a player is like "I think this person is scum" and then they proceed to see everything and anything that player does through a biased POV because they already think they're scum.
P1: "I think player X is scum because of this one reason that might be reasonable. I also think their lurking is scummy!"
P2: "But player X has a general meta of lurking?"
P1: "I'm literally so sure he's scum so I will ignore this consideration."

I'm gonna go suffer through schoolthings now.
zzzzz.

-Cheetory6

Sometimes that reads scummy. It really depends on the players other post in the game.

[farside22]

Thanks west!
Sorry I'm not as Wally as you guys, it is easier to link and quote stuff on the computer and I phone post a lot.
So I get spammy because of it.

Plus walls don't always get read.

Anyways
I would like ari to explain his scum reads.
Vsye: I'm waiting on you as well to explain why your expectations = glink scum.
Orc: where are your reads at?

[farside22]

Gaye: at the bottom is a thing that says display post by user. You just scroll onto the user.
Also in each players post is the word ISO.

I liked a lot of what acryon has said this game. Plus some of his play reminds me of our last game together.

[farside22]

@vsye: see above ^

[farside22]

I'm going to make a few post in a row.
First up is to Ari

OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.

As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.

This post is something I wanted to see if others agreed was true about Lal.

@Everyone: In #115 I said "I

see

that you were baiting us." not "I

saw

that you were baiting us."
I know it may seem insignificant, but I never claimed I reacted because I knew what he was doing. This was a remark after the fact where I acknowledged what had happened.

I know it's late and I'm tired but I had another question for Ari: what about my play is striking you as "messy?" That's something I haven't heard yet

I was theorizing out loud moreso than accusing. If you, Metal, and Lalendra are scum together, the grouping is being messy about it. You specifically have not been messy. I suppose this was more myself putting an FoS than anything else.Of the three, you're lowest on my scumdar.

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

k, what does this mean? I'm open to a conversation about this if you like. Not that I have much to say. Whatever floats your boat though.

I don't believe you knew Orc was testing waters. I pointed out 3 post you made that shows why I think you are BS'ing about knowing better.
Also I have not heard anything about other scum reads with reason's about others.
You have a bit wishy washy from others when asked about your reads.

Ari – as Acryon pointed out in 181, there is something off about his play in this game. The “I posted a vote on metal just to see what would happen because I didn’t have time for a real post” could be legit, but doesn’t ring true. When he finally came back to the game after being away for a bit, he tunneled in on me, West and Metal, without really saying anything about anyone else until later. That could have just been because he was pressed for time. The stuff West said wasn’t particularly vague, so his point about me leaving a scumtrail also didn’t ring true. Seems like he’s just picking out parts of my meta that will implicate me in this, to plant the seed of doubt with everyone, without creating any real solid tie-ins. Also this:

As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.

It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...

Reconcile these two statements, if you can.

So, here we go.
I did post the metal vote to get reactions. I didn't have the time for a full post and didn't want to half-ass it, so I set that up. I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted an honest reaction from people. I think you're just bitter that all this has turned on you because of it.
I also was pressed for time, as I have been most of this game, when making that post. I still agree with my read, though I'm most confident on you as scum. If you're not, I will definitely reevaluate things. I'll also probably be lynched D2 if I am wrong. It's a risk, but I feel you're scummy and am just theorizing in case I do take a bullet.
Reconciling the statements is easy. I remembered the conversation specifics when they were brought up. They were in the back of my mind when I started this game. By the time he asked about it, I couldn't think of anything that could be related to this game. I saw where he was going once he stated his point. I mean, that's basically what I said at the time. I don't get what feels off about it, but fill me in if there is anything.

Toss shit my way if you guys like, I'll be here for another hour I think.

[/quote]

If it was a reaction test and you only get one bite and nothing more then it gets just one. It's also the one you have focused on since.
As I said prior I think you are both scum here but from different groups.

[farside22]

Lalendra is up next:

As stated before I was not a fan of this post for medicore reasons for scum reads that are not clear why for example Lyse is a scum read.

We have the vote on Ari this was after talking about mislynching Ari and null read.

Lal post here looks to be just attacking those without taking things said prior
Not sure if that is typical. Emotion is emotion but it was a quick reaction based on other comments I made prior.

I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed. I still don't see why what Orc did was scummy and she has yet to really explain it well at all.
Some of the list I do like, which is why I would push Ari over her as a lynch for today.

[farside22]

@Vyse: What do you think of Ginko's read on West (of him baiting Ari and such)? (also remember to answer my question about your expectations of Ari when you get the time =P, also also: d2forums only allows the ISO-like search for registered users P= ).

@Farside: I mean, Ari sort of says he didn't realize it was reaction-testing on the same quote you used, and he also said more about that near the top of page 11. Don't have a problem with you still being mad about that, but saying this because your wording seems like if Ari was still trying to act as if he knew what Orc was doing from the beginning.
Also:

I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed.

I think that was a mistake of Lal's, she said in the next post to ignore everything previous to the West quote of that post (I'm assuming she copy-pasted her own previous readslist while writing the post and forgot to erase it all or something like that).

ATTN YOUNG:

Spoiler:

Yo, Prawn, thou your latest post is an answer to the Orc question, can you address the rest of this please?

He voted, didn't direct any questions toward Orci, then unvoted one day after.

Hmm... he seemed to demand and explanation from Orci about the random votes thou. Do you read the unvote itself any way in particular? Speaking of Orci: do you have any thoughts on him?

I kinda like Glinko's stuff on Acryon. Btw @Acryon, can you give me your thoughts on Metal?

@West:

So basically Ari's wagon still sucks but I don't like the Lalendra one enough to put it at L-1

Is there something in particular you don't like about the Lal wagon (alternatively: Something in particular you like about Lal that gives her townpoints)?

@Lalendra: You initially mentioned you thought Ari was being typical Ari and that general silliness was mostly just his meta. Later you said West's case helped in swaying you. Besides the Metal-vote: Do you just generally agree with West? Can you walk me through the evolution of your read (like, where did "typical silly Ari" go, for example)?

Ari sort of waffled on not knowing. Mostly because he was caught.
Lal's read list is completely different wording then her first read list and has quotes she never used before.
Not sure what happened there.

[farside22]

I noted the questions asked about wash and acryon.
I'm busy till tomorrow. I will ISO them and explain a bit better my reads

[farside22]

Lal's read list is completely different wording then her first read list and has quotes she never used before.
Not sure what happened there.

I was just responding to a request I received to provide an updated read list on the people I thought were scum in my first post. Explain how my views had changed as a result of the goings-on between my first post and this one.

I'm going to assume then you quick scum read based on false analysts on me was changed back to town?

@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?

Scum lean:
Aristophanes
acryon / orcinus_theoriginal
West9

Null:
Lalendra
farside22
Ginko
prawneater
VysePresident

Town:
Lyserg-Zeroz
Metalcyanide

Unknown:
YYR

That is a lot of null reads.

[farside22]

Ari - random Metal vote with no reasoning (unless it was earlier and I missed it), conveniently after West pointed out the likelihood of an Ari/Metal scumteam? If you're scum, that seems like a less than well thought out attempt at scum-distancing, yet I can't ignore it, particularly in conjunction with West's points, which ring true for me now that I see it all in one place.

VOTE: Aristophanes

honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.

[farside22]

Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.

-Cheetory

Curious,
Why did you say nothing about Lal who's whole case was about Ari?
Two, why did you say nothing when Lal or Ari stated the following:

Ari - random Metal vote with no reasoning (unless it was earlier and I missed it), conveniently after West pointed out the likelihood of an Ari/Metal scumteam? If you're scum, that seems like a less than well thought out attempt at scum-distancing, yet I can't ignore it, particularly in conjunction with West's points, which ring true for me now that I see it all in one place.

VOTE: Aristophanes

honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.

And Ari:

@West

, I'm seeing a lot of technical/non-game related stuff in your posts, so it kind of feels like your vote is just sitting there. Any particular reason for that?

No particular reason, no. It's not intentional, just haven't taken the time to really parse through the game until now.

@Lyserg - Ari not liking early wagons doesn't really upset my meta personal on him. Same with him not liking RVS and voting for orcinus.

Heavy, heavy backpedalling coming from Ari. I'm cool with my vote still being here. Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.

Your initial logic being you're town, thus I'm scum?
As I said, we could both be scum in this setup.
Also, how can I prove I'm town without a lynch.

OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.

As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.

Both players read as scum hunting one group.

[farside22]

Sorry for the quotes prior. I forgot to hit replay and hit submit instead.

So I was asked about my town read on Acyon read.

Here he is the first to point on Ari strange wording about asking for players he is town reading
He also calls out metal in that post.

I liked his response to Orc reads as not pushing on shit taking a stand back from something that can be read either way.
goes on when pushed no wishy washy stance on that.
follow up question shows he is reading post and getting to the meat of what players are not saying.
I agree with his attack on Lal
another catch on another player post

So it's basically getting reads from people, paying attention to those little things, not being pushed around and agreeing with his attack on Lal

[farside22]

Oh, not at all. I think Lal is almost definitely scum. Hence why my vote hasn't moved.

Why? I'm not seeing it.

I pointed out a couple posts in my thoughts on you. Could you elaborate on your thoughts process here? (173, 207, 214)

Why is this scummy, and not just Newbish mistakes?

You want to explain a town read on lal?


As for acryon I did say previously that it was meta based and things you pointed out as null not scummy, so tell me why acryon is a scum read.

[farside22]

Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.

-Cheetory

I was wondering why you said nothing about lal's cases which is basically full of missing things said in the game to create a case and why your fine with her "case" in ari.

[farside22]

I'm still reading but I saw lyse comment about my town read so I'm going to explain a bit of what I see more times then not come from scum.

Scum tend to be very uninvolved in scum hunting aspect. Typically weak cases, weak reasons, somewhat low under the radar. When you have 2 scum groups to content with this practice tends to be more prevalent because as scum they worry about being killed by the other team if they are too town.
So when I read lal as scum and let's say she is scum acryon looks more town pushing against scum and maybe targeted for said push.
Second thing for my town read is no one has really put any case against him as why he is scummy.


*Gets off soap box to finish read.*

[farside22]

I was wondering why you said nothing about lal's cases which is basically full of missing things said in the game to create a case and why your fine with her "case" in ari.

I could be wrong, but it seems like you're trying to frame that it's off that I would comment on other people being opportunistic with their votes on Ari, but that I'm not scumreading Lalendra for having a case with holes in it?
I mean, if that's the case, I'm just not reading her intentions as being opportunistic to the same degree that I would for others. I kind of expect Lalendra or Aristophanes to be more likely to go after things that might not make a ton of sense. Scumtells don't work well when applied universally to every kind of player in every situation and I haven't seen the opportunism in the same way with Lalendra's case on Aristophanes.

Gink, I'm not really feeling this Acryon wagon. Want to hear your thoughts on what I just said about Prawn.

I don't think readlists like prawn's are super out of the ordinary on this site. I had some weird vibes about prawn's first few posts, but I'm not feeling anything strong about him anymore. I'd like you to tell me what you think about acryon's 'flipping read' on Vyse.

I think it's really telling that she went back on this point as well, though.

Eh. Was kind of worried that I might have missed a point somewhere along the way, but she also says this:

Also the reason my reasoning for the Ari vote contains little of your argument is because I was given so much crap for agreeing with you and disliking the naked vote that I felt I should put together more solid points instead of going "yeah, what west said."

Is she really going back against your points if she later admits to this here or do you think she would blatantly backtrack like this?

@Ginko: Acryon wagon is sexy and all, but I feel like you are being too dismissive of the Lalendra wagon. Some of that contrived reasoning and the reactionary not curious attitude (that aligns with meta) feels like more than just weirdness to me.

I'll try my best to read some of her stuff on D2 and compare tomorrow, but I just don't have any time right now. I don't know if I can see the lack of curious stuff without properly comparing the two playstyles.

Also: "Willingness to change reads is townie" Applies to Acryon: Yes, no? why?

Eh? I feel like that's a strong blanket statement about changing a read on someone o.o
Is there a specific example of acryon's reads changing that you feel I should be looking at? I can check back later but I just don't have much time right now.

Acryon mixing up his read on Vyse feels badddd. I could see logically see townbad, but man my gut is screaming scum at that whole flipflop. I feel like if he was genuinely scumreading Vyse from before and had actually mixed up the meaning of Lyserg's question, he would have said it was weird that Lyserg was asking him for reasons why he would think Vyse is more likely to be town. I also dislike that he dodged answering Lyserg about West.

Orci and Young really need to do stuff.
Because they're fucking scary bastards and I don't like how quiet they're being q.q

-Cheetory6

This is awful.
You basically read as ignoring anything lal or ari saws and reading them as newbs.
Another example of why I don't like your reads is here you talk about acryon comment about vser but say nothing about metals read or pawn reads that change and are not explained for it.

I find it difficult to believe your scum read is valid when others do the same thing.


My scum reads stand as lal/metal/ginkgo and ari/orc.

[farside22]

I didn't notice that only one faction had a kill.

How can you say lal's done nothing scummy.
You point to level head and expectations but none of that is omg scum it's an oppinion.

[farside22]

I can tell you right off the bat her vote is not reactionary for the simple fact she is (1) still voting ari (2) still claiming a scum read and finally (3) lal has reacted her reasons for said scum read

[farside22]

Reacted = retracted

[farside22]

Vyse does have a different thought process.
Some part wonders if this outlook is looking for scum group only but the other part appreciates the differences.
With short time left a lynch is better then no lynch and I still see lal as scum.

Vote: lal

[farside22]

Ginko: I don't recall of you ever posted a scum list. Did you have someone other then acryon as a scum read?

[farside22]

That was a town hammer in my view.
Too close for deadline.
Also there is from what I see one pr in the game. The odds of that happening in a game like this is 1 out of 12.

Acyron: we're you concerned for some reason?

[farside22]

Vote count 1.11

Lalendra (5):

acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR, Lyserg-Zeroz

Aristophanes (4):

West9, Metalcyanide, farside22, Lalendra

acryon (3):

VysePresident, Ginko, prawneater

Not voting:
With 12 alive It takes 7 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-01-22 22:14:00)

Vyse does have a different thought process.
Some part wonders if this outlook is looking for scum group only but the other part appreciates the differences.
With short time left a lynch is better then no lynch and I still see lal as scum.

Vote: lal

Then pawn vote was hammer.

[farside22]

Is there a protocol at the other website for when to claim?

[farside22]

Is there a protocol at the other website for when to claim?

you mean at our (ginko, west, ari, lal, metal, lys) place? not really.

Ah.

FYI for anyone new.
Most expect a claim at l-1 or when some intends to hammer and request a claim.

[farside22]

Also FTR till the mod closes the game everyone, include the player lynches can post.
Once the mod makes the lynch official the dead typically can't post there after in thread.

[farside22]

Thanks farside, didn't see the other vote. Oh well, I'm dead again D1, shocking.

Scum?

[farside22]

haha i forgot young oops

Is there a protocol at the other website for when to claim?

you mean at our (ginko, west, ari, lal, metal, lys) place? not really.

Ah.

FYI for anyone new.
Most expect a claim at l-1 or when some intends to hammer and request a claim.

I'm dumb. For some reason, I thought you mean a protocol with something besides this.

I asked because I played at another site and they had a standard claim at l-2

[farside22]

Just writing down some thoughts on Lal flipping wolf and based on a few interactions I noted.
Not wolf with Lal would be West, Metal, Orc or Ginko

I'm still working on this list.

[farside22]

The more I think about interaction I find it interesting that Lal said nothing towards Acryon when he was making a case and when he was under fire.

I think Lyse and Vyse are the other 2 that she didn't say much too but let me double check that.

[farside22]

I think this comment is a good note to keep from Lal. I think it came from an honest place and when thinking about scum team I want to weigh this in.

I'm dumb, so this just seems weird and I don get it, can you walk me through why you are suspecting him of specifically being a werewolf?

I’m not familiar with the three-team setup (yes I know I’m beating a horse that had been bludgeoned to death before I even got to it, but this was my reasoning), so it seemed to me that it would make sense for Werewolf to try and pit town and mafia against each other. Town wants to kill werewolf and mafia, mafia wants themselves to be the majority, werewolf wants to have mostly werewolves but also at least one townie, and presumably a mafia or townie in the second slot. They would want to take out the Seer ASAP (I have no idea who might be fulfilling that role as of yet) and then it’s really to their benefit if town and mafia sit back and pick each other off. That’s just how I see it, I’m aware that could be grossly flawed reasoning. As you pointed out earlier in your post, his play his too obvious for scum/scum-distancing, but still there’s no reason for that naked vote in lieu of actual discussion. It’s almost as if he’s like “TEEHEE THIS IS SO OBVIOUS NO ONE WILL THINK IT’S REAL”, I am just befuddled by that whole thing. I really wish he would weigh in on my read of him, everyone's reaction to my read on him, and basically the nature and purpose of the naked vote.

Also, I totally forgot about Ginko’s NYE question, I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHERE THAT WAS GOING[/quote]


I go back and forth with Acryon in reread and Lyse reads town. YYR never said boo from what I recall the whole game.

[farside22]

Still think ari is opposite alignment of lal. I noted metal was being nice to lal and his thought process was that she'd attack him as scum which is pretty weak tell.

So I'm looking at vyse, yyr or metal as lal's scum buddy.
Ari still reads scummy as well as ginko.

Let's start with the lurky one.

Vote: yyr

[farside22]

I just remembered scum can hide in this game easier the wolf.
Since there is a seer out there I want that person to think about looking at either yyr or acryon.

Vote: ari

[farside22]

Because I see nothing town from your post.

[farside22]

Why do you think werewolves would be confident at this point? Didn't half of their team just die?
The idea that D2 people would be less likely to kill D2 people is silly.
Enough people had listed orci as being scummy that scum trying to kill other scum still could've been the case here.

I'd like Johnny head to respond to this.
Also lal had called out orc as scum, meaning less likely to be considered wolf as well so why would the wolf player just not make the kill based on that no mater the alignment?


Ari: how about telling me your scum reads and why?

[farside22]

I think if necessary the wolf partner might vote for the other but I want to recheck why players voted lal to get that paranoia out of the way.

[farside22]

zzz

VOTE: Lalendra

Someone should smack me if I don't make a substantial post tomorrow.

Can you explain why you voted lal at this point?

[farside22]

Your vote pivot at the beginning of today is weird farside. splain it.

Why is it weird considering how I felt day 1 and based on what I said about who I think is scum?

Do you go for who you believe is scum or figuring out who maybe scum?

[farside22]

As for me I thought about 3 factors (1) scum can't kill and (2) scum can hide by just looking for the wolf and (3) there is no cop in this game just a seer who maybe can weed out the final wolf.

Now Johnny I asked you a question prior to my post but can you explain why you want to just hunt the wolf.

[farside22]

Only wolf hunting could lead to a mislynch.
Searching for both faction may increase a scum lynch.

And just for the sake of it.

Who are your scum reads based on the game as a whole?

[farside22]

Just to make a point stick

10 player
3 scum/1 wolf
5 vt
1 seer town

You see looking at the whole better shot finding scum one way or another.
Mislynch ing helps the scum team more.

[farside22]

My thought process is a bit different.
Originally I thought metal and lal, but metal made a comment about lal willing to attack him and wasn't.
also if you reread metal and lal it really reads more buddying up to each up. Well I see it that way, which is why metal is my scum list but not wolf list.
I'll have to get to the rest after work.

[farside22]

Acryon: what did you make of west/lal interaction during day 1?

[farside22]

Unvote

I want ari to finish and frankly that was one of his best post this far to take pressure off and reevaluate a few people.

[farside22]

Ari and lyse: do you guys see scum buddy up/defend each other often?


Admittedly I'm feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

[farside22]

Also rereading ari's post about metal I have a question towards metal.

Metal: did you ever wonder why lal wasn't attacking you? I believe you 2 played 2 games prior to this. If so was lal scum in both, town in both or town and scum?

[farside22]

Hmm...
I don't know if buddying is that common and I also can't recall scum-scum defenses being specially common either, or not to where I'd say it's a particular part of D2forums' meta anyways, but I still don't wanna just go "that's too obvious for scum". I've been dumb scum and defended a partner before (to the "too obvious" point), and I've seen casual slight defenses being thrown around in games. I think looking for alt wagons or mostly ignoring each other is prolly a more general and common approach and I'm generally paranoid of bussing because I've seen it work so well before, but I've been having a hard time believing Lal's partner was super eager to bus her (a combo of the setup, whoever his partner is either seeing her as sorta newbish or a complete stranger and the lack of daytalk maybe being in the way of giving each other warnings and coordinate that kind of thing, but maybe this is just my personal too considerate view on the matter).

I've seen scumMetal buddying before (to townCheet on the game where he and I were scumbuddies), but I'm not sure if he'd do that with Lal and I initially felt like he was genuinely trying to protect Lal (albeit in a questionable way). In the wolfhunting front, I'm more inclined to look into people who didn't vote Lal, and I also can't recall any of the Lal votes feeling bus-y... I should look at that wagon again thou... I don't care much for stuff against Lal that happened after your switch from Ari to Lal. Do you think wolf-Prawn wouldn't have hammered Lal in spite of her fate being pretty much sealed at that point?

Also, you never fully got back at me about the "not wolf" people thing P=

I did respond about west and metal if you read my post and why I didn't see them as wolf with lal.

We'll I can't recall much about prawn saying anything about lal.
Lal's reaction to my comment about prawn, leans me towards not wolf together.

Right now I'm question yyr'svote on lal because he hasn't really said much.

[farside22]

Ginko: ari made me feel better for comment about metal and how he thought about there interaction.

Let's look at this from a different pov for a moment. I don't see ari and lal as scum together. I don't see anyone who has. Metal as I said doesn't look like scum with lal. If metal is mafia what does ari gain from pushing metal scum?

Also when I read ari's last post it reads very derpy.

[farside22]

Oh whether wolf would defend day one. Sorry I forgot about that question.
Things I would not expect, wolf to attack wolf from the get go (talk acryon out there) minor interaction (newb reasoning with lal there), low under the radar player from scum busty when they see lal pressured, maybe part of the counter wagon, maybe hops on to be inconspicuous (see both hapen).
When lynch gets closer maybe push on counter wagon more if part of it.

That is what I'd look for and will be looking at tomorrow.

[farside22]

Let's look at this from a different pov for a moment. I don't see ari and lal as scum together. I don't see anyone who has. Metal as I said doesn't look like scum with lal. If metal is mafia what does ari gain from pushing metal scum?

Well he would gain the bus that some may believe since there is a very real chance Ari gets lynched today. But I don't think metal is scum or wolf FWIW.

Why is metal a town read?

[farside22]

feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

[farside22]

Ginko: did you just ignore the case I made on ari day 1? Or are you saying he reads exactly the same? If the same explain how.

[farside22]

Also want a reason for the metal town read.

[farside22]

Lyserg: I'm working on it one at a time. I get lots of interruptions.

[farside22]

Acryon who is part of your scum group?
Ari/ginko and metal same question to you 3 as well.

[farside22]

Oh and ginko I didn't say I had a town read on Ari and I don't see the derpy from day 1 being like his bigger post day 2.

[farside22]

Lyse: if I don't get to ginko read by the end of thursday poke at me.
I'm pretty beat tonight.

[farside22]

My question was worded terrible.

I should be asking this better.

Acryon: who do you see as scum together and why?

I'm looking for ari, ginko and metal to anwser that as well.

[farside22]

My question was worded terrible.

I should be asking this better.

Acryon: who do you see as scum together and why?

Oh haha that makes more sense. I was wondering what you were expecting there.

For the scum-team, I see Ari, Lyserg, and Vyse.

Why?

Lyse: I expect derpy during rvs, but as I said day 1 about ari the derpy didn't match up. Example he says he was joking about something, but then says it again seriously. That joke looks less jokey.

[farside22]

My original thought process about why ginko isn't wolf with lal was how he analysised the wagon on her. He attacked acryon' vote and he could have stayed on ari to save his scum buddy instead of tryin to get another wagon.
Today's comments confirm he is more towards wolf hunting.

That said I have a scum read on ginko so I think scum not wolf.

[farside22]

After review I'm looking at either
Yyr or vyse as wolf
Ginko, metal, acyron scum team.

[farside22]

feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

[farside22]

feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

What are you confused about? I'll help!

I'm confused by you ignoring what I said.

[farside22]

feeling a bit paranoid about acryon with people still scum reading him. I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.
I found it a dishonest response from acryon not to note those points about lal and west when I asked him.

What are you confused about? I'll help!

I'm confused by you ignoring what I said.

How did I ignore it? It's a comment from you. You can feel how you want. What am I supposed to even say to that? "My response was honest, not dishonest like you felt"?

Can you explain why you didn't say anything about lal using west case against ari and later she retracts that statement. How does that read as scum/scum interaction? Usually I see scum follow town in reads so...???

[farside22]

Can you explain why you didn't say anything about lal using west case against ari and later she retracts that statement. How does that read as scum/scum interaction? Usually I see scum follow town in reads so...???

Lal was clearly inexperienced on this site, so it didn't and doesn't make sense to look at her play like you would someone with more experience or try and place it inside our outside of typical scum play and action. Given that, it

does

make more sense to me to look at West's interaction toward Lal, which I did in 494.

Why the heck not. She obviously played scum before.

Is west more experienced?

[farside22]

Acyron I just checked lal's join date and west join date.
You got some explaining to do.

[farside22]

I should mention that I played mafia for about a year on another forum before joining D2

Did acryon know that?

[farside22]

Acyron I just checked lal's join date and west join date.
You got some explaining to do.

Just quick posting to say that if you couldn't tell a difference in experience between west and Lal from their posting alone then you aren't using your brain

Vote: acryon

[farside22]

Metal: why is what west did scummy above everything else.

@vyse: I don't look at join dates typically. Lal read lost to me and bad from the word go. West has read more indepth thought process. I have played with someone who never played online mafia and came across as west did. No one really said anything about ari but the more he post the more he reads newb. He may not be, it's not obvious and I asked acryon for reaction purposes and he failed.

[farside22]

Acyron I just checked lal's join date and west join date.
You got some explaining to do.

Just quick posting to say that if you couldn't tell a difference in experience between west and Lal from their posting alone then you aren't using your brain

Vote: acryon

So you

really

think that you couldn't tell the difference based on their posts? You have to be kidding.

You can read 602

[farside22]

Also acyron I'm going to say your reason why west is scum with lal is awful. You used 2 quotes and never responded to how west called lal on her about face on using his case or how west asked lal about why she ignored him.

What do you think of metal's reason for voting west?

[farside22]

Also acyron I'm going to say your reason why west is scum with lal is awful. You used 2 quotes and never responded to how west called lal on her about face on using his case or how west asked lal about why she ignored him.

What do you think of metal's reason for voting west?

It's almost as if there's a reason I'm voting Ari and not West. Hint: it has something to do with the level of confidence and the case for each.

I think metal's reason make sense from his standpoint.

You obviously did not read what metal posted.

[farside22]

There was a list of you guys from the same site, not sure how you can say who has more experience without someone saying who played x games.

Metal: how did you know lal was gimme?

[farside22]

There was a list of you guys from the same site, not sure how you can say who has more experience without someone saying who played x games.

This is only my third game.

Sorry what's omgus?

Metal: how did you know lal was gimme?

This is just you not paying any attention to the game.

I know Lalendra irl. I'll tell her to check in

I did miss her saying it was her 3rd game.

I'm more wondering if metal talked to lal or how they ended up in the game together.
I did see metal say he knew her in RL but west didn't know lal was gimme.

[farside22]

Quickposting while waking up.
Acryon is sill pushing the active lurking point >.<

It's not that I'm pushing it as much as he is literally doing the definition of it. It's up to you to decide whether you think active lurking is alignment-indicative, but what he's doing is the actual definition of it.

@Acryon: I mean, that's still kind of a nonanswer, "they make sense" is like sort of a minimum requirement (like when you were asked if one of Lal's point was "believable"... of course it'd be believable at least from her PoV). Metal's vote reads a bit OMGUS-y, but I guess the reason is that West was being overly defensive and didn't vote Lal? Like, I'd say that I don't know if that's really worth abandoning his previous Ari case, but that one also seemed very gut based (plus meta, I think).

But that's sort of the difference between scum-hunting and faux scum-hunting. I'm not looking for people who are wrong, because town are often wrong; I'm looking for people that appear to be doing things with ill intentions. I see no scum-benefit from metal switching the way he did and it reads genuine. If he has his own reasons to feel West is wolf, fine. I'm not going to say "hey, he's not wolf because X; he's wolf because Y." I do think his vote should still be on Ari because Ari is scum, but this town is sort of failing at the moment in general so I'm not going to focus on him for that right now.

I'm just going to call bs to this.
Acyron need I remind you of scrambles play in our last game together and how he just followed and switched reads based on nothing.

[farside22]

I'm more wondering if metal talked to lal or how they ended up in the game together.

How would this affect your read of metal?

I did see metal say he knew her in RL but west didn't know lal was gimme.

How would this affect your read of West?

It should change your view of west, don't you think?

I'm just going to call bs to this.
Acyron need I remind you of scrambles play in our last game together and how he just followed and switched reads based on nothing.

That was completely different. And he wasn't scum because he was wrong. Being wrong for scum benefit is generally scummy. Being wrong is not.

He switched reads to appear town.

Now tell me what, specifically you like about metal and find town.
Links,quotes something.
I'll be happy to point to metals list that had more null reads, and I again look at you for not saying anything, equal about half the players in the game and your fine with that.

[farside22]

Hmm... @West: You realise when Metal brought you as a scum read this day he was putting you on a trio of people who didn't vote Lal, right? (as, "these people are my wolf suspects" kind of thing). Why did you question purely your own placement there rather than the whole?

@Acryon: If you are still saying it because of the posts exclusively made to say he lacks time, then no (and it is part of a grander definition of the word not an equivalence, but whatevs).
In any case, I do dislike his latest questioning to you, the last quote you mentioned on 599 felt like misrep.

(quickposting over: gone for lunch and other stuff, also now musing the idea of Acryon+Metal scumteam; waiting to understand more of farside and Prawn's vote on Acryon)
P-EDIT:

Ginko you jerk. Good luck with your IRL stuff :C
@farside: Eh, fair enough, not sure if I missed it because skimming over, but can you tell me what you were testing when asking about West's experience and why that led to you voting Acryon?

There are 2 seperate groups in here.
1) is ms people (2) is other site people.
If acryon is that confident it reads as inside info that he should not have as an ms player.


ebwop: acryon I have asked and lyse asked you to provide examples. Your refusal to do say just reads as you can't do it.

[farside22]

Hey Jordan. Name seems familiar, have we played before?

[farside22]

Yeah!

This thread is really boring to read!

Well it shouldn't be too boring, wolf was lynched day 1.

Your Thoughts on ari?

[farside22]

Metal scum read.

Here is what I see from Metal that rubs me the wrong way.


One his reads. They change for very strange reason from town to scum. I don't see the logic he is coming from with those changes at all even with Acyron/Orc.

Next he voted for Orc because Ari asked Orc a question and then Metal has a vague reason to suddenly scum read Ari that he didn't mention prior.
Also when I read the quotes about his team of Orc/acyron it makes not a lick of sense to see them on the same team based on there back and forth.
None.

Finally there is the West scum read. He had it day 1, not much reason why.
He has it day 2 based on wolf not being on the wagon. Lets not forget Metal was not on the wagon either so that is pretty weak reason to find one of X scum on that basis.
Then when West prods more on this scum read reasoning you have Metal getting more and more defensive about the position and attacking more from West.

All are in the spoilers below.

Spoiler:

Hey all sorry for my lack of posts I was with Lalendra all day and my phone doesn't seem to like this site. Also,

Unvote:Lalendra

that was just a D1 joke vote.

So anyways after catching up on things I'm going to side with Ari with wanting to see an explanation from orcinus_theoriginal for his random votes.

Vote:orcinus_theoriginal

VOTE: UNvote: orcinus_theoriginal aside from missing a post which answered my question his post since then don't seem especially scummy. But I'm having trouble with this 3 team thing so he could still be scum but just hunting the other scum. Who knows at this point.

I would like to see more from people before really coming up with anything definite.

Okay, so I guess I should actually partake of this game a bit more than I have been, so here are my thoughts on everyone that I have actually formed an opinion on thus far (if a person isn't listed I haven't gotten a good read on them):
acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.
Aristophanes: As others have pointed out Ari has just seemed scummy. From playing with him I don't ever recall him being as sloppy with his posts as he has been (who does he think he is me lol).
farstefan - Has this person posted yet? Are they being replaced
Ginko - So far Cheet being Cheet. I really need to learn how to read him better.
Lalendra - Needs to participate. Your 30th birthday was 3 days ago now come on old lady lets go (I'm so dead IRL)

To address some things that were addressed towards me:
I removed my vote from orcinus because I no longer needed the "pressure vote" (as someone called it) and 63 gave me an answer I was looking for why he was just throwing around the random votes
Orcinus you said I'm "self-concerned and not legitimately curious". I am self concerned, I'm not sure who to trust yet and I don't want to be lynched so I can keep playing. I am curious about things but I know the questions to ask, I'm not very good with my wording.
And the reason why I was waiting so long to really post is because I was waiting for some of the people who haven't posted or at least significantly posted to post on the current events, but to keep things moving here you go

So my biggest Scum read is Ari
Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.
VOTE: Aristophanes

Feel free to ask me anything I missed.

@Metal:

acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.

Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.

Can you expand on your first quote? While I can understand feeling like a couple of players are possible allies, I'm not sure I get how this can also apply to townies on a game without masons or anything like that. Associative read aside, why is Acryon a town-read to you in the first place?

My town read on Acryon comes more after he and Orc were going back and forth during post 125-127. He had just said prior that he had a town read on Orc but was still mostly disagreeing with someone he has cleared for at least D1.
Acryon and Orc being teammates is from their interactions, they were getting some good discussion from each other instead of the typical accusation and defensive statements I've usually seen.

Can you tell me exactly which of Ari's posts or points are sloppy to you?

Ari seems to be joking around more, his posts just don't read right to me. Sorry I know that's not super helpful but I'm going off the way I'm reading it and it's hard to explain.

Care to expand at all on why Lyserg is town, I'm your scum read, and everyone else is neutral?

I think Lyserg is actively scumhunting. You on the other hand seem to jump to whatever popular bandwagon is going. First with orcinus_theoriginal, next with Aristophanes. The reasoning behind your votes amounts to "seems scummy" with no further elaboration. It just seems like someone who wants a fast lynch to me.

A) The orcinus_theoriginal vote was to get the reason for his random votes. I missed a post which if I had seen would of made the vote unneeded.
B) Ari has felt off to me and this being a game of mafia especially in D1 sometimes relies on a gut feeling based off of the past. And I am keeping my vote on him unless someone can convince me otherwise.

But on another note: You have had 4 posts (thank you orcinus_theoriginal) 1)voting for Vyse 2)Saying Lyserg is town / I'm scum 3) voting for me 4) quoted. Why the lack of posts? You've been on the site and commenting on other subjects are you trying to just lurk through D1? Also, are the other people who voted for Ari after me (farside and lal) just looking for a quick lynch? Also, your town read is still voting for Ari what does that say to you? We need some info out of you man

Okay so big post time. But I've decide to rework how I'm looking at everything . So I'm going to post reads and/or question based off of peoples current votes (also @Mod your vote count is wrong prawn is voting for me not Vyste)

People voting for Ari:
West: What is your current thoughts on Ari? Your vote started as a joke, then you later justified it by analyzing his wording (post 102). You also suggested an Ari&myself team, can you elaborate on this more if you still think so. (we are voting for each other as of this post). For everyone else I think West is flying under the radar a bit. Not based on the number of posts but the substance. Most posts have to do with Ari. I'm leaning slightly towards nontown on West atm.

VysePresident: Well based off Vyse comments so far, real life has apparently prevented him from participating. However, before he left he was also wary of Ari's town and wording. Null read just not enough there right now.

Metalcyanide: I don't belive Ari is playing his typical town game but some of his recent posts have been a return to form. Not sure if that's because he is just more focused or trying to fix tone.

Farside22: I really like post 166. It really sums up his and other peoples vote/suspicion of Ari. He also is pushing for a Lalendra scum read but no vote on her yet, no comments after myself and others confirm she is new to mafia so this may change. My read on Far is null, not enough there for me to theorize on teammates

Quick note: Just to address Lal, myself or others being biased towards friends it won't happen. In a competitive game Lal would sell me out for a nickle just to "beat" me, as for everyone else I've seen them go after each other for the smallest of things. I forget who brought it up but please don't worry about that. So onto

Lalendra: Scum, the scummiest of scum, so scummy the scrubbing bubbles can't get rid of her. Okay but seriously, she is playing a very noob or very elaborate game (damn English major). I've read her posts several times am having trouble following her train of thought. She oddly defends me from Ari by voting for Ari. Justifies the vote more by pointing to West's reasons. Lal, has anything changed for you since Ari has answered your question? Who is your next scum read. My read on lal is noob town atm

Just a side note, this group of voters doesn't fill me with the most confidence. I do believe we are all after a scum player but my vote is most likely is aligned with a mix of town & mafia or wolf players (not both).

People voting for Lal:
Ari: He is voting for her based off of his reaction test that really only she responded to. The post between his "Vote Metal" and his next post were Lal's vote on him and people questioning Lal. So the following doesn't make much sense to me as he had one reaction in a reaction test

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

Anyways my thoughts on Ari I feel like are well documented at this point. Scum read.

Acryon & Orcinus_theoriginal: I'm grouping these guys together because I still think they are working together knowing they are on the same them. One of them basically reminded the other to vote post 219, post 222 and post 223 to try to distance themselves a bit. I know I said town on them earlier but they are still doing more of the same and it's not because they can't conversation out of anyone else. Feels like they are trying to steer the game. Scum team read.

Voting for Glinko:
YYR is easy. Not enough to go off of. Only 2 posts one which he says people aren't giving enough info and votes for Glinko because of reasons I can't see.

It's 530 am and I've been going over each post way longer then I wanted to. I'll finish up on everyone else after I look at some house tomorrow. (people I need to comment on are lyserg, glinko, and prawn)

@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?

Scum lean:
Aristophanes
acryon / orcinus_theoriginal
West9

Null:
Lalendra
farside22
Ginko
prawneater
VysePresident

Town:
Lyserg-Zeroz
Metalcyanide

Unknown:
YYR

Lyserg and Ari asked me about Acryon. Yes, my opionion of Acrycon has changed since Orc flipped town. It truely looked like thier interactions were teamed based but since Orc could not have known what team Acryon is on the interactions look more innocent. So I'm taking Acryon off my scum list for the time being.

Ari:

Metal again, why would it matter what timezone Honeybee is in??

Yes this was a stupid question on my part and I realized it well after the day ended. It is quite possible the dumbest thing I've asked in a week.

West:

Why do you still have a scumread on me? Are you still thinking that I'm flying under the radar?

No you are no longer under the radar but you are one of the few not to vote for Lal. So as far as I'm concerned a 2 man team wouldn't vote for each other on D1, espically when there was 2 other wagons there was a chance of happening.

Vote: Metal

Fos: Acyron

for telling me this shit reads town.

[farside22]

@Farside so a lot of re-explanation here:

I don't see the logic he is coming from with those changes at all even with Acyron/Orc.

So I'm not sure why you couldn't see my D1 logic on a possible Acryon/Orc team as they were, at least to me, interacting with each other more than anyone else. Post 221-223 really make my argument. I dropped the argument after Orc flipped town.

That happens a lot.
It's not a tell one way or another.
Many others interacted with each other in various ways, not sure why that stood out.

Next he voted for Orc because Ari asked Orc a question and then Metal has a vague reason to suddenly scum read Ari that he didn't mention prior.

I voted for Orc to get him to explain his random voting with no explanation. I missed a post that did explain it however so I retracted my vote. Then I voted for Ari because of his play.

Then finally my recent West vote is because he has been the only one to care that I put a weak wolf read on him. And he wouldn't drop it even though I had Ari as my vote.

I'm talking about Day 1 scum read on West.
Not day 2
Your day 2 is weak and I explained why.

Can you explain your Acryon case? Is it anything more than just him having a town read on me?

That would be one thing.
The other is how he reads things and explains them reads as BS, which I said before.
Bigger case will have to wait till morning.

[farside22]

Lyse: he wasn't voting for lal. He focused on those not voting lal without taking his own thoughts into consideration. It's not scum hunting basically.
Also his main focus is wolf hunting and not scum hunting for both groups when you read who he thinks is scum.

[farside22]

Have you done that with ari?

[farside22]

But sure lets talk about scum benifit a with metal.
Metal still looks like he's scum hunting but only I have pointed out that it's within one group.
Scum metal doesn't have to bus his scum buddies by sticking within one group.

Now tell me how that makes metal town since you keep defending him

[farside22]

Hi, I'm rambling on a larger post, but while I try to make sense of my own words:
@West:
I can see the "defending" one more in a "justifying" sense, since reads don't always have strong reasoning behind them one would want to defend, but they should always be at least justified even if by "lolgut", but:

This doesn't really surprise me coming from someone who thinks that mistakes aren't scummy, that laziness isn't scummy

How the hell is making mistakes scummy? (laziness isn't really either, but eh, that's kinda dependant on the player).

Is it normal for you to play devil's advocate with everyone?

[farside22]

^Don't really feel like that's what I'm doing here, but yeah, kinda (I need to be in a really assertive mood to not doubt myself out loud even a little). I don't like that line out of West because it feels like overdoing his attack on Acryon (mistakes are things everyone makes).

Tbf you seem to question a lot of things on people.
I get lack of trust and such but sometimes it comes across as being a bit fencing with everyone.

It probably is a playstyle difference but in my world it reads a bit scuzzy because it gives the allusion of scum hunting but finding everyone scummy to put a case against no mater what.

That said. Can you tell me what post from metal you found that he addressed things against him?
Also when I say metal is scum hunting with in one group I do know he is voting ari (not a wolf read) but he isn't explain his scum reads other then associated reads which is pretty weak.

[farside22]

Also ari needs to come back and start giving scum reads

[farside22]

Metal: who are your scum reads based on game play? And why?
No this does not include the west read.

[farside22]

West:

It's Day 2 and there are two scumteams. That you're relying solely on the votes for your reads and not at all on interactions is sketchy when you consider those two things.

I wasn't focusing on only 1 team at the beginning of the day. I had you, Ginko and Vyse as possible wolfs. I was voting for Ari as I think he is scum as well. I did say I thought he would be mafia along with YYR (now Jordan but that read was based of YYR lurking I need to see more from Jordan to come up with a proper read now).

West:

On the subject, the whole "you didn't vote Lal thing" is pretty dumb, and mischaracterizes my attempts not to put Lal at L-1 at inappropriate times with an attempt to defend her. This interpretation of my actions is completely wrong.

This still falls into the harping on it category . But anyways, I never really talked about your actions or anyone else’s I only brought up the votes. I think people would go back and look at the interactions themselves if they wanted to push any of you. I didn't even have an argument against any of you (aside from the, you didn't vote for Lal thing) until our last few interactions. I was just putting it out there as a possibility.

Why is lurking all you have on this?
Why is lack of vote on lal alignment indictive when you did not vote for her?

[farside22]

Basically what I see from metal is x didn't vote for scum therefore they maybe scum instead of analysising the players motives for not voting and not analysising anything from it.

Also while I'm thinking.
Metal: why is ari still a scum read? If ari where to not flip scum who would you look at and why?

[farside22]

My knowledge of my alignment is gonna trump whatever my interpretation of Lal's meta is. I happen to know that Lal and I were not on a team, and one of the benefits of that knowledge is that I don't have to consider at all whether Lal's attempts to use my reasoning against Ari was wolf buddying wolf. I'm not gonna bring up "reasons to disagree with farside's points" that I know to be untrue, whether or not they are confirmed to be untrue to the rest of the game.

That's where my head is about that. I get that it might not be helpful to you, as you don't know my alignment and might see all of this as lies, but whatever.

This hurts my head to read.

More in a moment.

[farside22]

I can't focus right now.
Lyse: can you link to the post you liked from metal you are referring to.

[farside22]

@vyse: I don't look at join dates typically. Lal read lost to me and bad from the word go. West has read more indepth thought process. I have played with someone who never played online mafia and came across as west did. No one really said anything about ari but the more he post the more he reads newb. He may not be, it's not obvious and I asked acryon for reaction purposes and he failed.

Not sure if this was meant to be addressed at me, but I'm curious, why is the Lal read suddenly lost to you now?

How did Acryon fail the reaction test?

I'm having a hard time following your thought process.

Lost is not alignment indictive. i didn't think it was necessary to say lal was reading lost.
Why are you asking?
Also a lot of your questions you asked me I did explain already. Did you just skim the game or what?

[farside22]

Oh I haven't forgot about Metal's response, just getting interuptions today.

Does anyone know if Metal considers lurking a scum tell normally?

[farside22]

Phonepost ahoy: (lowbattery rush)
@farside: 263 waa the one I was talking about.
@Metal: I totes get if you hold it against Jordan who's actually here, or get angry about Young seeming apathetic towards the game or whatever, but why are you not even considering that if both Young and Gliff had to sub out then thers clearly more to it than some dumb lurkscum move?

@vyse: Request noted, but right now its not the best time for me to try to order my thoughts on people, sorry. The hardest stances ive got right now is wanting to lynch acryon, metal being a good alt, and farside being the player im most comfortable trusting right now.

Your action and comments make no sense.
You voted metal day 2.
The comment you linked was stated day 1.

If you like metals post why did you vote for him in the first place?

[farside22]

Just a point of order.
Voted metal here.

@Acryon: Oh. K then. That's a lot of confidence P=. Can't really yell that much at Ari if the response isn't what I expected ^ ^'

I thought you'd call it dumb because there's little point to a one-man wagon if you can use your vote to lynch your secondary suspect (even more so now that

your confidence on scumWest had risen considerably after your exchange with him) or because it can be used to avoid a NL or something like that. Then I'd yell at Ari because I wasn't sure about the point of that line of questioning and it worried me when also considering his super lame "Metal, didn't you notice the timer!?" question and because the "If I'm not scum" part of it makes no sense (is there any other answer than "How the hell would I know? And if I did of course I wouldn't vote you" to that 0.0?).

   Tbh when I first asked you about your case on Ari and with how confident you seemed, I thought I'd get some new content (and I did) but I also thought it'd be composited and strengthened with you agreeing with and pointing to other people's D1 points (there's nothing inherently wrong with that not being the case, but I would've understood your confidence more if it was). Looking back on this, I prolly shouldn't have questioned you on that so early and I should've given you more breathing room instead to see how you'd organically push for the Ari lynch. But whatever.

@farside: About Metal focusing on werewolves: Idk, he went for Ari first and only changed to West after that exchange. If you mean because the trio of suspects for wolf, then: We caught one wolf, I'd think it's natural to have specific wolf suspects based off the possibilities of associative tells. Also, I noted D1 that Acryon/Orc interactions seemed too inocuous, so I can see where Metal would get that "team" read from and him noticing the tones with which players interact is partly why I could sorta see Ginko's comment on Metal having "deeper" thoughts on players than what I/him remember/s from scumMetal when he said that

I'm honestly conflicted on Metal lynch, partly because gut, partly because of a few stuff I liked I already mentioned. I also like that he at least took the time to comment on the votes of the wagon he himself was on. Stuff I don't like either I've already commented or other people have said them and I didn't raise counterpoints; Metal lynch is fine, but not my favorite.

I can't make myself feel better about the stuff I haven't liked about Acryon by chalking them up to playstyle differences (and my gut likes the vote better there than in Metal), the feeling of insincerity I got off him doesn't go away. VOTE: Acryon. Also, stuff that I feel the strongest about regarding Metal have to do with his interactions with Acryon (or lack thereof), so there's that.

I'm wary of just letting West correct himself like that, but I guess that way it is consistent with his previous line of questioning to Acryon of "Or by being scum". I'm going back and forth with West and the possibiliy of getting the wolf is tempting. To the points farside brought up before, there are counters based off Lal's meta and the idea that West is not dumb enough to not know when to bus; I feel slightly off about West pushing farside's points to Acryon when some of them had counters with Lal's meta of which West should be aware of (Lal relying on the points made by a scummate and defending them), only "slightly" off because Acryon had no reason to know about Lal's meta and he really was just ignoring farside's points. Thou the "solid townread" Lal gave to West seems overboard, I remember her being a bit more wishywashy when giving townpoints to scummates on the Madoka game. @Ari: But you can help me out here, since I actually didn't play that game.

Talked about the post you liked which was before your vote.

[farside22]

Well the vote to metal didn't happen but it was way after the post linked.

[farside22]

Sorry.
I phone post so quotes get lost and it was late.

Lyse voted metal but he unvoted metal and voted acryon.
I asked lyse what he liked about metal that changed his views on metal.
The post lyse linked to was a comment by metal. That comment was wayyyyyy before lyse voted for metal.

To me it reads as though lyse is being insincere about his reasons and reads.

Here is why.
If lyse liked metals comment and read. Why vote for him in the first place?

[farside22]

Hi all.
I've read the past few pages, going to read all of D2 now/after class.

You should start from day 1.

Hi!

[farside22]

My knowledge of my alignment is gonna trump whatever my interpretation of Lal's meta is. I happen to know that Lal and I were not on a team, and one of the benefits of that knowledge is that I don't have to consider at all whether Lal's attempts to use my reasoning against Ari was wolf buddying wolf. I'm not gonna bring up "reasons to disagree with farside's points" that I know to be untrue, whether or not they are confirmed to be untrue to the rest of the game.

That's where my head is about that. I get that it might not be helpful to you, as you don't know my alignment and might see all of this as lies, but whatever.

This hurts my head to read.

tldr Lyserg thought that it was weird that I didn't tell you why I could be scum.

Hey, speaking of which
lyserg, tell me: why did you think it was weird that I didn't tell farside why I could be scum?

That reminds me, someone asked me what I thought of what was said.
I was confused reading it.
I didn't know what to think.

[farside22]

Edit: Lyserg is more town than scum, I didn't like his postings up until page 7 or 8.

I was town reading the slot but his day 2 play is very questionable to me.
As I said his metal vote and then unvote and reasoning doesn't match up.

I'm starting to think metal/ari/lyse scum team
Thinking vsye/yyr as wolf.

[farside22]

From my pov things just seem odd.
I'm sticking with metal but I'd vote ari again.

[farside22]

Farside, what's this thing you're on about with Lyserg voting Metal when he actually voted Acryon? Were you just confused or what? Does it change your thoughts any? Like, basically your last 3 posts totally confused me.

Also, you asked for reads again, yes?

Actually, this kind of seems like the kind of prodding I expect from Ari.
Could be that he's scum with someone in this interaction? Eh.

I wish this cycle was longer and I seriously wish I felt more into this game right now because I'm feeling super meh about a lot of my scumreads right now. :/

@farside

, what're your thoughts on pisskop/acryon slot right now?

I liked pisskop reads. I still have a few issues with the spot but depending on metal or ari alignment it will lead me to a better place.

[farside22]

Pisskop: I think vsye fits the same category as metal.

[farside22]

Hey prawn: vote metal. I have a theory I need tested.

[farside22]

thakyakindly, competent werewolf. A good kill for us and an excellent for you.


. Farside, why is this game "odd'?

Bothered by how someone people said metal was scum but didn't vote for him.

Just reading YYR/Jordan and I know where my vote is going

vote: Ari

this should happen

[farside22]

bolding some relevent points said by scum in regards to Ari

I am actually a little uptight about that. Acryon, whats with that? Trying to get an early wagon going?

Can you explain why an early wagon is a bad thing? Cuz I don't really seem to recall an instance of a game that you've been in where there's been a quickwagon on D1 that's resulted in anything bad happening?

Uh huh. You definitely weren't scum in a game and quickhammered West that led to a scum win.

I don't know why Ari is "testing the waters." Regardless, it seems so blatantly over the top safe scum play that I find it hard to believe that Ari would be so apparent about it. Meh, the votes seem fine I guess. Fine in the sense that I can see why people are voting him, but I don't find him scummy myself.

it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation

I agree. Not for the same reasons, but I agree. All these "waiting until later" and reactions tests are hindering any kind of coherent conversation here, though.

Ginko, give me an actual read of Ari.

Ok.

I'll echo the feeling that Acryon seems to be playing safe. Not sure how much of that is just the timing of his posts. I feel he's only jumping on people once someone else has jumped on that wagon. More reactive than proactive would probably be the concise way to say that. Lal vote is cool in my book, though.

West and Lyserg are probably town? Lyserg, is your vote on Orc based solely on him not giving you a read on West or...?

VOTE: Ginko

I agree. Not for the same reasons, but I agree. All these "waiting until later" and reactions tests are hindering any kind of coherent conversation here, though

^What were your reasons to agree?

I'll answer this point at least.

I agree on the baiting Ari, although Orc's argument is pretty semantic-y for my tastes. At the very early of the game, Ginko's questioning of Aristophanes felt like a way to bait him into answering in a certain way that he knew would make him look bad. Aristophanes is lynch bait quite frankly, and they know this.

The fact that they left with a townish read on him is odd to me considering Cheetory's inability to read him correctly ever (who has made most of the contributions to the game so far as far as I can tell). Also, we're 3 days left until deadline and he's still pushing this weak case on West which no one is buying. He has yet to really take a stance on Ari or Lal. He's asking things to both, but I'm not seeing him reach any conclusions out of them or what the purposes of the questions are. I'm seeing a lot of vague or on the fence sitting positions on Ginko's slot, and my confirmation bias is telling me it's because the slot is scum. I wasn't around enough in this cycle to push them, but it's where I'm likely to start tomorrow.

Lal lynch is still fine. This day feels pretty much done regardless and just feels like some of the 1-man wagons to pick a side. Meh. Reading back what I missed more carefully since I skimmed.

[farside22]

Hi, here as promised.
Sad we're ever so close to mislynch territory

Theory will have to sit for a bit. Sorry I'm not elaborating, all in good time!

VOTE: Pisskop
It's our best chance at a majority right now.

I'm off to shower, hoping some ppl pop in before I get back!

You want to discuss what you meantby the above there.

No I don't believe yyr was buddying.
He had no issue voting lal that day after defending ari.

[farside22]

I agree, it was just a thought. I would, as I say, argue the latter far more.

I unvoted for the exact reason I said I did. Bear with me as I explain this logic, because it is somewhat circular, but to me makes sense.
I wanted a lynch on one of them and said I would be back to hammer. The unvote was so that the numbers pre-hammer were accurate. If I had kept my vote on PK and a 5th person voted, I didn't want someone else to not vote, assuming I'd cover the hammer. As well, if a Metal lynch was more desirable, as people weresplit, I did not want to force the lynch I to either direction. I came back and voted where Iit had the most potential to lynch when I said I would. I don't see a problem with that.
Why does it bug you, Lyserg?

I didn't vote hoping others would chime in or something. Oh well, may as well since everyone is v/la it seems.
VOTE: Metal
I'm still okay with either lynch.

Ninja'd
Cool

This is pretty crappy reason to unvote.
Ari had the most votes. If you were happy with either lynch you keep your vote on the player with the most votes.

Farside
What does Young voting Lal have to do with your case against him buddying me?
I don't see how you got there.

Yyr voted lal without a reason. It was an easy vote to make on someone not part of his team.
He could have jumped on your wagon for any reason and no one would have said boo, especially seeing as he wasn't town reading you.
Voting lal or voting you (if not part of the same team) makes no difference.

[farside22]

Piss: metal is a scum read still. Also lyse is on there as well. Cheet hydra is all but invisible this game.

If ari is scum I would take a closer look at west.

[farside22]

So here is what I've come up with for other possible scum:

Vyse: Vyse could be scum

assuming Ari flips mafia

. He does some a bit of distancing himself from Ari early on, defended Ari later, and when there was sizable wagon on Ari in D1 he unvoted.

Cheet (Ginko) - Has been really wishy washy this game. Not sure if due to IRL stuff, the result of being hydra first half of the game or trying to stay under the radar.

Prawn: Another possible scum lurk. 28 total posts in the 3 weeks we've been playing. Does some distancing from Ari as well. An interesting line from post 660 "I find it very hard to come up with a 3-man scum team with Ari on it." I think Prawn could be scum no matter how Ari flips but if Ari flips scum it's more convincing. I find it hard to believe that we would have 2 scum slots just lurking but then again I still can't believe we had one that was a 3 person lurk.

This is one of your better post and I like your thought process.

[farside22]

Not playing the what if game.
The calm and cool approach is scum play.

[farside22]

Cheet (Ginko) - Has been really wishy washy this game. Not sure if due to IRL stuff, the result of being hydra first half of the game or trying to stay under the radar.

Can you explain what you mean by this? >.>
I'm not really sure if I understand how I've been wishy washy.

Do any of you players know if Ari is always this explanatory?

He's always this wordy if that's what you mean?

Fuck it.
VOTE: Aristo

@farside

, I just remembered that you ignored everything I said about Lyserg before deadline. Can you give thoughts in response to that now?

Hey prawn: vote metal. I have a theory I need tested.

What was this theory?

What did you ask me about lyse?

Mmmmm I guess it doesn't mater. I thought metal/ari/lyse as scum. Both lyse and ari said they didn't like metal and ari said he'd move his vote to metal if there was more of a push that way. I wanted someone to vote to test out if the two showing a scum read would change their vote.

My wolf reads are pisskop or maybe west at this point.

[farside22]

My wolf reads are pisskop or maybe west at this point.

hmm. How malleable you can be. Do you have some evidence?

Actual lyse should be under wolf category too.

Right now just based on interaction and scum reads.

[farside22]

Sorry for like.. ten questions farside, but I'm trying to follow this Lyserg/Metal thing you're talking about and I'm confused about it.

Lyse voted metal but he unvoted metal and voted acryon.
I asked lyse what he liked about metal that changed his views on metal.
The post lyse linked to was a comment by metal. That comment was wayyyyyy before lyse voted for metal.

I'm pretty sure Lyserg's opinion on Metal hasn't changed much?
He said that he's a good alternative to an Acryon lynch here:

The hardest stances ive got right now is wanting to lynch acryon, metal being a good alt

I'm not sure I understand how his opinion on him changed unless I'm missing something?

Lyse said he felt better about metal and his responses.

[farside22]

So, your issue with him isn't that he switched from "Metal is scum to Metal is null or town", but instead that he switched Metal from his first choice to his second choice?

I think his metal read is fake.
He says he felt better abou metal. His scum read on metal was day 2.
This is not hard to track and see.

[farside22]

I'm going to start first with Lyse: I have no idea what question you asked. I sometimes miss things when I'm reading through because I get interuptions during my day.

Next in regards to ari's comments towards me. My thought about the wolf in general is there is a seer out there. I would rather look for the mafia and have the seer find the wolf. Whoever the person is can guide players or hide out till they find the last wolf.
So I look for the mafia and make my views on who I think the wolf is.

If this is scummy let me know why

[farside22]

Vote count 2.08

pisskop (4):

prawneater, West9, Aristophanes, Lyserg-Zeroz

Metalcyanide (2):

farside22, pisskop

West9 (1):

Metalcyanide

Aristophanes (1):

Cheetory6

Not voting: VysePresident, ~Jordan`
With 10 alive It takes 6 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-02-08 08:07:00)

I have 2 theories going.

Theory 1

The fact that we did not get a lynch yesterday is suspicious.

I don't buy that people simply forgot about it. I believe not hammering pisskop was deliberate anti-town play.

Who would not want to vote pisskop there? His scumpartners of course - ~Jordan`and one other.

We should look very closely at the people not on pisskop's wagon.

pisskop and someone not on his wagon are our remaining scum.

The people not or came late to pisskop's wagon are: farside22, Metalcyanide, Cheetory6, VysePresident

Unfortunately, unless there's some pretty hard bussing, I find it hard to come up with a scumpair for Acryon/pisskop

- farside22 is town

- Cheetory6 is town assuming pisskop is scum, as it is unlikely that Cheetory6 is paired with him based on post 740

- VysePresident is town assuming pisskop is scum, it is unlikely that VysePresident is paired with him based on his D1 vote and push

- Metalcyanide is town assuming pisskop is scum, as Acryon attacked him pretty hard D1

Which leads me to:

Theory 2

If pisskop is not scum and we truly did no lynch by accident, I'd say

West9 or Metal are scum.

In which case there's a West9 or Metal (not both), ~Jordan`, some other dude triscumverate.,
Any thoughts on this?

Theory 1 is interesting.
Cheet and Far why didn't you guys vote for Pisskop? I would ask Vyse but whoever replaces him won't know.

I wasn't around at the end of the day. I got a bit busy and thought i would be back if needed.

[farside22]

I've thought about this for a bit.
I was bothered that ari wasn't around day 2 very much and now that there is pressure he is posting.
Either way I look at it I see metal as scum or wolf so I'm going to go this way.

Vote: metal

[farside22]

Prod-dodge-y post:
Ari going out of his way to get the focus back on himself/Metal/PK is interesting and I prolly need to go back to scumAri games to compare what happens when Ari wagons form. More thoughts later.

If this happens please link the game.

[farside22]

I've thought about this for a bit.
I was bothered that ari wasn't around day 2 very much and now that there is pressure he is posting.
Either way I look at it I see metal as scum or wolf so I'm going to go this way.

Vote: metal

Wait so your bothered by how Ari is playing but vote for me? Explain please or am I not understanding?

I still think you are scum.
Ari is at least presenting something.

[farside22]

1 post does not equal town cheet. You should know that about me. I've beenscumreading ari and metal both for quiet some time.
That's not going to change because of one or two post.

[farside22]

I've also explained at least twice why wolf hunting alone looks scummy.
Mafia can look active by searching outside there scum group by wolf hunting.
There is now 2 mafia and one wolf.
Wolf can kill and look like they are scum hunting. Mafia can not kill and may protect keep other.
Admittedly this leads me to be wary of ari and pawn scum team do to protection from pawn.
Wolf can be hunted by seer.
There is no cop in this set up to find the scum, so I'm leaving the wolf to the seer to point players in the right direction and looking for mafia.

Why I find metal scum is his looking for wolf only but ari did say something about the lal/metal interaction that leads me to think maybe wolf.

[farside22]

Do you not think pisskop is equally guilty of what you're saying then?
You said this not too long ago:

My wolf reads are pisskop

Why is this no longer the case?

Pisskop is mostly wolf read because of acryon. His play is not what I remember as town.

I kind of skimmed the argument between you and pisskop. I don't believe you are wolf. I did have a scum read on you day 1, but it was more based on Johnny and his post.


Will explain more later.

Sigh

[farside22]

So these were the post that bothered me coming from Johnny.

I didn't ever see a point to this question.

Quick post of thoughts from one head not consulting the other -

he tunneled in on me, West and Metal

This is funny to me

Lyserg, you're noticing similarities with her scum game, which is fine and dandy, but have you checked to make sure she's not like that as town as well?

Slips are pretty meh.

@farside do you think confirmation bias is alignment indicative?

Willingness to rethink reads strikes me as townie from Metal.

waiting to discuss with other head before making a vote. The best vote in the game is farside's based on 166, but I can't agree with it because I can totally see Ari being more willing to put up with our shit than a stranger's. The testing the waters thing is a bit hard to believe though.

bbl~

This post was really not saying a lot and a bit dismissive of lyse and vsye for there scum read on your slot.

Somebody explain confirmation bias for me, I don't think she's getting it.

Vyse's and Lyserg are both suspecting my other head for not being as good as they want him to be. Stuff like that makes mafia less fun :C

Vyse in particular seems weird to me because I don't know if he's just bad at voting or he's avoiding talking about someone else

Also Metal doesn't remember my play? I must have been slacking recently :C:C

- Johnny

Not gonna post much because Royal Rumble hype, but here's what's in my head. Haven't talked to Keely yet but YOLO~

1. Anyone not thinking we should be werewolf hunting right now needs to stop that.

2. This kill makes me feel feelings. A) Orci was a relatively safe kill, and that means scum were either confident (likely) or thought he was the seer (less likely). People I think should feel confident if they're scum right now are farside, Acryon, Lyserg, and West. B) Orci is not from our dumb other site, which feels like a more likely kill from one of Lyserg, Metal, Aristophanes, West, or Young, as they'd be more uncomfortable killing someone that points to them. C) Orci seemed pretty townie from what I remember, which would mean whoever this werewolf is likely is hunting for town rather than the other scumteam. In my head I've got the idea that newer players would more likely want to see the other scumteam dead before town considering how much more likely the standard mafia team are to win if they survive for very long. This is the part I'm least confident on, but it points to farside, Lyserg, West, Acryon, and Young.

The only people common to all three of my dumb NKA things are Lyserg and West. Lyserg is more townie in my brain, so I'm gonna say West is the most likely person to make this kill.

3. I agree that Seer should look at Acryon, not really seeing Young. Acryon's switch from Ari to Lal right at the beginning of that wagon pretty much cleared him in my books unless the seer tells me otherwise.

4. Not gonna vote until Keely is around

- Johnny

I liked this post because I sort of agreed and felt that scum maybe trying to use lal's flip to there advantage, which pulled me off my scum read of you.

[farside22]

I half wondered with pisskop' said den interest if he is wolf. His sudden attack is a bit odd considering his scum read of ari. I'm again torn with how acryon defended metal and pisskop not saying anything towards meta if that is scum/scum group there.

The wolf read mostly comes from acyron asking lal for a claim. It felt coaching to me

[farside22]

Said den = sudden

[farside22]

Lyse: I can't find the post I'm thinking of, I'll try again when I'm more awake.

Ari: pisskop is also a scum read.

[farside22]

Metal is scum abr.

[farside22]

Pisskop is a good vote too so I'm not complaining.

[farside22]

I don't have a lot of time to explain. I will only be voting ari, metal or pisskop.

Metal having a scum read on acryon and not wanting to vote pisskop makes no sense

[farside22]

West: remind me who you are scum reading and why.
Same question to lyse.

[farside22]

Lyse: This was the post I was talking about that Ari made about Metal. It was also in regards to West.
I thought about it a bit more and more as the game went on and Lal's flip.

I'm going to make a few post in a row.
First up is to Ari

OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.

As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.

This post is something I wanted to see if others agreed was true about Lal.

@Everyone: In #115 I said "I

see

that you were baiting us." not "I

saw

that you were baiting us."
I know it may seem insignificant, but I never claimed I reacted because I knew what he was doing. This was a remark after the fact where I acknowledged what had happened.

I know it's late and I'm tired but I had another question for Ari: what about my play is striking you as "messy?" That's something I haven't heard yet

I was theorizing out loud moreso than accusing. If you, Metal, and Lalendra are scum together, the grouping is being messy about it. You specifically have not been messy. I suppose this was more myself putting an FoS than anything else.Of the three, you're lowest on my scumdar.

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

k, what does this mean? I'm open to a conversation about this if you like. Not that I have much to say. Whatever floats your boat though.

I don't believe you knew Orc was testing waters. I pointed out 3 post you made that shows why I think you are BS'ing about knowing better.
Also I have not heard anything about other scum reads with reason's about others.
You have a bit wishy washy from others when asked about your reads.

Ari – as Acryon pointed out in 181, there is something off about his play in this game. The “I posted a vote on metal just to see what would happen because I didn’t have time for a real post” could be legit, but doesn’t ring true. When he finally came back to the game after being away for a bit, he tunneled in on me, West and Metal, without really saying anything about anyone else until later. That could have just been because he was pressed for time. The stuff West said wasn’t particularly vague, so his point about me leaving a scumtrail also didn’t ring true. Seems like he’s just picking out parts of my meta that will implicate me in this, to plant the seed of doubt with everyone, without creating any real solid tie-ins. Also this:

As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.

It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...

Reconcile these two statements, if you can.

So, here we go.
I did post the metal vote to get reactions. I didn't have the time for a full post and didn't want to half-ass it, so I set that up. I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted an honest reaction from people. I think you're just bitter that all this has turned on you because of it.
I also was pressed for time, as I have been most of this game, when making that post. I still agree with my read, though I'm most confident on you as scum. If you're not, I will definitely reevaluate things. I'll also probably be lynched D2 if I am wrong. It's a risk, but I feel you're scummy and am just theorizing in case I do take a bullet.
Reconciling the statements is easy. I remembered the conversation specifics when they were brought up. They were in the back of my mind when I started this game. By the time he asked about it, I couldn't think of anything that could be related to this game. I saw where he was going once he stated his point. I mean, that's basically what I said at the time. I don't get what feels off about it, but fill me in if there is anything.

Toss shit my way if you guys like, I'll be here for another hour I think.

If it was a reaction test and you only get one bite and nothing more then it gets just one. It's also the one you have focused on since.
As I said prior I think you are both scum here but from different groups.[/quote]

[farside22]

I think cheet is town.

I still keep going to the yyr association and ari.
I don't see how that can be interpreted as buddying. I really don't. Yyr said he understood why ari looked scummy but never voted him.
That not buddying/defending. It's acknowledging ari's actions.
I think yyr vote lal to save his scum buddy.

I just feel more confident with ari scum then metal

Vote: ari

[farside22]

Has Ari claimed yet?

What do you think looking at yyr?

[farside22]

You know what. I suspect West, Cheetory and pisskop at this point.

Fine

Vote: pisskop

The chat about ari needs to happen and you owe me that.

[farside22]

The votes on Ari seem opportunistic, that's why I'm reluctant. I'd still vote him over the other main bandwagon, but Cheetory has my vote right now.

I asked specifically about how yyr acted around the ari wagon.
Does that read as buddying/defending to you?

Pisskop: hush I said you were on my scum list multiple times. Deal with it.

[farside22]

Aristophanes is lynch bait quite frankly, and they know this. The fact that they left with a townish read on him is odd to me considering Cheetory's inability to read him correctly ever (who has made most of the contributions to the game so far as far as I can tell). Also, we're 3 days left until deadline and he's still pushing this weak case on West which no one is buying. He has yet to really take a stance on Ari or Lal.

I took an excerpt I found interesting from YVR. What do you think of this one, farside?

I think the post makes cheet less likely to be scum with yyr in my view.
It's a slight defense towards ari. My issue he said nothing about lal and was quick to vote for her over ari.
Why save one player and vote for the other.
It strikes me advert odd.

[farside22]

Won't be voting west.
This wagon sucks ass.

[farside22]

intent to hammer metal.

Would rather have Ari or Pisskop but I can't be choosy.

Pisskop reads real fake.
Seer if you can and metal isn't the wolf check pisskop.
Hugs and kisses farside.

[farside22]

I'm going to be busy and I don't know when I'll be availabe again any time soon

vote: Metal

[farside22]

Sigh
No
There is a 1 out of 3 shot if you want the break down.

I have not checked prawn, ari or west.

[farside22]

Thinking about who is left as suspects.

Vote: west

[farside22]

I knew it.

Mall those times I changed my mind right.

[farside22]

I guess I screwed it up after I figured it out. I went all bonkers on Cheet.

Prawn knew you were the seer.

My break down is prawn hammered and lal attacked ari.
West her didn't have much and metal pointed out west did not vote for lal.

I say vote for west. If it's wrong there's two people left who maybe wolf.

[farside22]

By the way I think pisskop is the last member of the mafia.

[farside22]

I checked vyse night 2 I was pretty sure he was wolf too.

[farside22]

I'm honestly leaning that piss is town.
I did some metadiving and the energy here feels genuine.
Ari's my best bet for last mafia still.

Well if not pisskop, I'd lean on abr then.

[farside22]

Farside, are you sure you peeped me, Vyse, and cheet?

Yes.

[farside22]

Well I was wrong west and I'm sorry it was one out of 3 shot.
I agree praen looks more like wolf with this out come.

Scum is either pisskop or abr in my view.

Town can win once wolf is dead.

[farside22]

Looking at metal post he was pushing ari since day 1, so ari scum is hard to get