Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[pieguyn]

god. at the end of D1 and what the fuck is 647/651?

do not lynch anyone until I finish catching up. I'm fairly sure TF is scum here - that solidified the read for me, but there's a lot more and I don't want to have any risk of someone derphammering before I post it. also, I'm fairly sure the VDA/MM576 wagon split was TvT and scum were divided between the 2 wagons.

[Elbirn]

can we please let me finish reading before we go lynching anyone

I don't particularly feel optimistic about the Elbirn wagon. I'm still at p24 but I've seen a few things I liked about her play and the way she's reacting to RC is at the very least giving me some additional pause about lynching her.

I think TF is scum. based on the other reads I have at this point, I think he's getting bussed here. I want a chance to fully form/post my reads before anyone gets lynched, since I'm currently feeling pretty good about this.

I mean it doesn't matter at all but I'm a guy. Just saying.

At any rate at least you have some sense.

[Elbirn]

...I didn't mean that like, implying you wouldn't, I meant like, emphasis on the word you. Like, you as opposed to the nonsense I see going on. Nvm it didn't translate well.

[Flames682]

Votecount 2.05

Elbirn - 4 (Cheetory6, Toon Fighter, RadiantCowbells, eektor)

Toon Fighter - 3 (MonkeyMan576, Elbirn, acryon)

MonkeyMan576 - 2 (Boonskiies, Formerfish)

Not Voting - 1 (pieguyn)

With

10

alive, it's

6

to lynch.

Day Two's deadline is Thursday, February 19, @ 8:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2015-02-19 20:30:00).

[pieguyn]

i am caught up

TOWN (S->W): Cheetory6, FF <gap> MM576 <gap> Boon, Elbirn
SCUM (W->S): acryon, eektor <gap> TF

Cheetory6/FF:

both obvtown; I do have some amount of paranoia about FF, but it's nothing worth pursuing. not really going to bother explaining this unless asked given most ppl seem to agree here.

MM576:

the tl;dr of the MM576 read is that I fully agree that his play isn't remotely helpful; however, overall I find his conviction at various points in the game town and I think some of the stances he took at various points look town once you look past how often he flip flops and contradicts himself (which, as I said before, isn't a scum tell for him). more on this:

Spoiler:

I hate the RVS so I'm not going to vote.

Don't wanna vote your scum buddy as a joke and have it come back to haunt you?

lol yep you got it.

What if this is just really cheeky scum telling the truth?

Is rvs something you always avoid participating in?

no, I'm not scum. No, I don't always avoid it, but it becomes more apparent it is useless every game I play in.

That sounds a lot like something scum would say.

Can you show what games you have avoided rvs?

If you're not going to play serious why play?

I hate the RVS so I'm not going to vote.

Don't wanna vote your scum buddy as a joke and have it come back to haunt you?

lol yep you got it.

What if this is just really cheeky scum telling the truth?

Is rvs something you always avoid participating in?

no, I'm not scum. No, I don't always avoid it, but it becomes more apparent it is useless every game I play in.

I'm confused by that last post of yours? Care to elaborate on what you mean?

Why the focus on me? Do you really find the RVS a necessity to finding scum?

Because I don't like your hop onto the acryon wagon, I don't like how cagey you are being with me. I don't like how I have to ask you the same question multiplettimes to get you to answer. I feel like scum has more to hide by not participating in rvs. Because I am trying to sort you and at the moment I am finding you wanting. Want to dance and be a good dance partner or do I have to start treating you like a hostile witness?

I'm not being cagey. I just think it's silly to make a mountain out of a molehill this early on day 1. If you really think I'm scum then vote away, we'll see if anyone agrees with you.

If you are going to ride Formerfish's coattails the whole game you guys are in trouble. At least when I get lynched and flip town lynch Formerfish next.

first off is that whole shitstorm re: FF. I really like the conviction here. while I can look at it and do think it was a bit of an overreaction, I think in this case it's more likely to come from indignated town whose playstyle is mostly centered around trying to outyell FF and make him look worse as opposed to presenting logic-based arguments. I also think that early game, making strong pushes is the best way to move the game forward and create new content, and I don't think scum would put themselves so far out there so quickly for (as far as I could tell) no reason. I look at this and think it's more likely to come from town who legitimately think they're onto something as opposed to scum pushing any kind of agenda. there are also some parallels here to the previous game I played with him; I can confirm MM tends to dislike when people push more strongly than what he perceives as necessary in RVS, and I can confirm that he does this regardless of how much of a reach his own reasons for pushing people are.

now, this isn't much of a tell on its own, but it is the first part of a long series of posts that I think are more likely to come from a town "I don't care what people think" POV, which makes me think his posts are coming from a consistently town mindset. IME it's generally pretty difficult for scum to fake that kind of attitude throughout the entire game, and I think he's hit a lot of genuine notes here.

Well, I thought it would be considered an OMGUS, but if you insist.

Vote: Formerfish

I really don't think anyone as scum would actually post this. like, I know it's almost too-dumb-to-be-scum, but I think this is another post that fits more with a town "I don't care what people think" mentality as opposed to having an agenda.

I invited the attention by my anti-RVS stance, it doesn't make me scum. A lot of people are exaggerating the link between RVS and lynching the bad guys.

this indicates that he knew he was inviting attention with his anti-RVS stance and didn't have a problem with it. again, I think this is more likely to come from a town mindset as opposed to scum pushing an agenda.

Nice that you're trying to discredit me. You seem nervous, the exact oposite of Elbirn.

more conviction I liked (re: copper). like, I don't think his accusation of discrediting/nervous was remotely correct, but it's another post I look at and I think it's more likely to come from a town player who comes out swinging at anyone who so much as pokes at him as opposed to scum pushing any kind of agenda. I would expect (again) that if he was scum trying to discredit copper here, he would at the very least be able to give more of a shit about his appearance; imo the way he's willing to go around antagonizing basically everyone in the game is more indicative of a town mindset

Mostly I am trying to get a feel for everyone because I haven't played with most of the people in the game afaik. It's not a quick process in this game unfortunately.

Elbirn and formerfish strike me as the type of people that like to pressure vote and reaction vote, so it doesn't really bother me. I know I'm town and I'm not the best lynch today.

I liked his thought process here, it came off very genuine to me; I can absolutely buy that he was having trouble finding his footing in the game and was focusing more on trying to get into the mindsets of other players. this is even more so the case when:

Town:

Monkeyman576
RadiantCowbells(innocent child)
Elbirn
Formerfish
Cheetory6
Boonskies

Null:

Futan
Toon Fighter
eektor
SiX
acryon

Scum

VictorDeAngelo
copper223

he decided one of his top scum reads (FF) was no longer scum. I absolutely buy that he didn't like the way FF was playing, but then realized FF's flip-over-all-the-tables-and-pressure-everyone attitude was normal for him and then had no idea where to go next so he sat back and observed for a while. plus, if you look at his copper vote (at the point where he moved off FF), it came I think 4 RL days before this switch, which is definitely enough time to make that kind of reevaluation. this whole thing came across pretty genuine, really

I admit I don't like his scum reads. however, as I said, I don't expect most of what he does to actually make any sense, so I'm willing to look past it.

I'm not sure what with Toon's emphasis on "if X is scum, Y is town" relational tells. To me it seems really weak reasoning and like he's grasping at straws.

I liked this. this basically mirrored my thoughts as I read through it, and he was (afaik? someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I might have missed some stuff) the first to point out how TF was abusing relational tells, which shows he's actually thinking about it and coming up with new opinions.

I don't have a thin skin at all.

Obviously your reading comprehension skills are lacking because you think I have only one reason for voting Toon, when I also blatantly said his relational reads were stretches. You are looking for confirmation bias when it comes to scum reading me, which is obvious on so many levels. Your original push on me early in day one for not liking RVS was crap too. In fact your overall play this game has been bad.

this is MM576 talking to someone they think is town (FF). I liked this more or less because if MM is scum here, he has had no problem bringing out the "discredit everyone pushing you" angle in the past. however, it's completely missing here. I think if he was scum, he would be more likely to revert back to that kind of attitude when FF makes another push on him; however, instead we get an attempt to call FF out on what he perceives as bad play. imo it shows he actually is forming and holding a consistent read here, as opposed to just doing whatever he can to get out of pressure.

Boon:

I don't particularly mind Boon's play. a good portion of the stances he took throughout the game mirrored mine as I was reading through it. now, again, obviously none of these are strong tells by themselves, but it's part of a overall body of work that suggests his play is coming from a consistently town mindset. ex:

Spoiler:

I'm scum reading Victor; Monkey's just that one guy who decided he didn't like RVS this game.

I don't like the big walls of fluff so early in the game, also he was leaning scum on monkey, the easiest person to wagon at the time, and now is on to Copper? Hmm...me no likey. No no no likey.

I liked the early town read on MM576. it's a moot point now because VDA was town, but I also liked his thought process re: VDA; I can see what he picked up on, I can see why he thought it was scummy (he essentially thought VDA was flow-going as opposed to doing anything original), and I buy that he believes it.

Victor's just doing easy responses. He's not really even analyzing or scum hunting.

IME it's generally hard to fake a "player x isn't *actually* doing anything" read as scum bc it generally involves criticizing a town player's entire body of work and saying it's all bad. it's hard to do that and not have it come off completely forced, because since you're criticizing an entire body of work as opposed to certain posts it will generally be obvious if it's out of place. this isn't that. again, I can see why he would have picked up on this; VDA's overall playstyle involved getting into a bunch of long debates with people that didn't actually lead anywhere, and I buy that he thought VDA was just scum smokescreening.

Hmm I actually think it's more likely both Victor and Copper are town and Cheeto (than Vic/Cheeto scum team) is just taking advantage of the interaction. Not really much basis for it, but if I were scum, I would work a town/town cross accusation like that.

Of course, this doesn't mean Cheeto is scum. In fact, I believe in Victor scum more than Cheeto scum, I'm just saying that we should look for cheeto if Vic doesn't pan out.

This isn't clear at all. AFICT you said you thought that Cheety was liklier scum than me and Copper and then said I was liklier scum than Cheety. Can you me give me a clear read on the three of us please, with order of towniest to scummiest?

I second this; it isn't clear AT ALL.

You think it's more likely for Victor to be town, and for Cheeto to be scum, but you believe Victor is more scum than Cheeto scum. WTF. Haha.

liked this; while his final assessment of the post wasn't correct (that post was scummy primarily because of how blatantly he was posturing), I can see why he picked up on that post and I 100% agree TF's post wasn't remotely clear. it's not as strong a tell as I would like bc he wasn't the first to point this out, but I still like the way he snap-called him out on it without much of a second thought.

@Eektor
MonkeyMan576 - 4 (acryon, Formerfish, Elbirn, RadiantCowbells)
MonkeyMan576 - 3 (eektor, Cheetory6, Futan)

If you think Victor and I are town, only Boon, SiX and Toon haven't joined his wagon yet, how does this fit with your scumteam?

Only reason I hadn't joined this wagon is because it seemed way too opportunistic as scum, specifically the first time he had the wagon. This second wagon is peculiar to me, though. I actually kind of find Monkey scummier now, yet Acryon/Fish/Elbirn didn't seem to anymore. There could be a case of an early bussing to show a certain kind of association between each other, but I can't really tell which one would be scum buddies with Monkey. I'm leaning more Fishy/Elbirn on that. This will be something we'll have to look more into as more information is revealed.

Anywhosies, it's just a theory. My top scum reads are Victor > Toon, with a little bit of Monkey.

this was a pretty good thing to pick up on and is an example of VCA that actually makes some amount of sense. although I disagree with the conclusion, I think this shows he's at least thinking about the game and the level of overall gamestate awareness he's showing here makes me think it comes more from a town POV

I scum read toon yesterDay, that's still there. I'm not really scum reading Elbirn. I don't get that one.

I liked this primarily because it mirrored my thoughts; plus, from a scum POV it would been easier to fake a vote on Elbirn as opposed to going to push a vanity wagon on MM.

Elbirn:

Spoiler:

mixed feelings here. he's provided a good amount of content/analysis, most of which has been reasonable, and I can generally follow what his thought processes were. I generally liked his proactivity early game; namely the way he questioned eektor and how then he attempted to sort the VDA/copper interaction. while I tend to bias towards people who correctly identified it as TvT and against those otherwise, and I thought VDA x copper was mostly white noise on both sides, I was inclined to agree VDA generally made more sense whereas copper didn't, and I liked the way he basically said he thought most of what copper was saying was crap - again, I can see why he thought that and I buy that he believed it.

Hey guys, I've been having trouble getting my head in this game, but I've been doing some reading and I'd like to bring up a few points.

Read posts 365 through and including 367, that little exchange there. The way Copper gets genuinely pissed at Cheeto. I feel like if they were scumbuddies, there'd be...Some kind of patience, or understanding there. I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say, what the right word is. But the point is, it feels like the interaction doesn't come from two scumbuddies. This would seem to imply that either one of them is scum but not the other, or they are both town.

Reading further back, same thing happens when he questions VDA who clearly gets frustrated. (Around 287)

Cheeto seems to question/suspect both of them to some extent, but also defends them, while having his vote on neither? It just seems weird. Like he's in a position to vote for either if he wants to. Acryon and Toon have done the same thing by declaring a willingness to vote for either, based on a belief that they may be double bussing scum.

Thoughts?

I also liked this mostly for how it fit with his read trajectory, as in he thought copper was scum and so it made sense that he'd look and see who he could clear of being scum with him; there's an internal consistency there that imo is indicative of a town-scumhunting mindset, plus he was (afaik, again correct me if I'm wrong) one of the first who really questioned if most of the players who had focus on them *actually* made sense with each other, which indicates he's legitimately trying to game solve.

Here's a question, Eektor followed me off the Monkey wagon onto the Victor wagon. He just did it a lot more quietly. Why isn't he getting shit for it?

this was again a pretty good thing to pick up on and shows he's aware of the overall gamestate. it also mirrors my thoughts that eektor is coasting-scum, which is a bonus.

...........are we sure innocent child means mod confirmed innocent/town? Seriously what

"If I'm not voting them then they're town"

is this a joke?

Look I wouldn't be opposed to a Toon lynch if it weren't for the fact that all of my scumreads are on it.

As it happens there's no way I'm compromising on Toon today, period, end of the line.

So if people, some of whom are town, want to go that direction, that's your prerogative, but you're doing it without the support of the IC, which would give scum good excuses for not joining the wagon, which would mean...
...that if you're voting scum the lynch isn't happening, but that if you're voting town it might.

Just something to keep in mind!

Okay I'm on a computer now, whee.

I retract 862, you didn't say that. But what you are doing is implying that we need to follow the wagons that you back, simply because you are the IC, which is bullshit. And again, it's especially frustrating because I did that Day 1 and you now are pushing my lynch as a result. Literally what the fuck.

Like the more I think about it the more frustrated I am with you.

So you don't want to lynch Toon because your scumreads are on his wagon. Here's the problem with that. For starters, you are not all knowing. You can in fact be wrong. In fact, you probably are. I already know you're wrong in your read of me for example. And while I agree on some of your other reads (Monkey and Acryon are on the wagon and I'm not a fan of them frankly), your refusing to "compromise" and vote Toon is based on 1. an absolute confidence that they are scum, instead of considering other possibilities and trying to puzzle this game out, and 2. not acknowledging the possibility of scum voting scum. If you think Toon is scum, if you interpret his actions and his words as scummy, then you need to be open to lynching him, who gives a fuck who's on his wagon. If you still think I'm more likely scum, then fine, hang me first, but don't hedge on your opinion on Toon because you scumread people voting him.

"Hi, I'm MonkeyMan576. I think someone might be scum but I'm going to argue with them until they admit they're scum instead of either voting them or convincing others."

This is also crap. He's already voting someone else he thinks is scum. Your statement is that basically you can't poke and prod at anyone but your vote. tl;dr, you can only have one scumread. No.

Because you seemed gung ho about the wagon before I joined but once I joined, you started getting nervous about it. Maybe you were planning on changing your vote(which you did once you voted me), but didn't feel like you could do it after the sheep. Like I said, weather or not you like someone on your wagon shouldn't matter that much, if you were that confident about the wagon in the first place.

Why would someone sheeping me mean I can't change my vote? I was confident about the wagon, you sheeping me and townreading me based on nothing was crappy play and I called you out on it. These are separate issues. You're basically saying that I shouldn't be critical of anyone who is doing what I am doing because I think that what I am doing is right, therefore what they are doing is right. This is false.

I retract 862, you didn't say that. But what you are doing is implying that we need to follow the wagons that you back, simply because you are the IC, which is bullshit. And again, it's especially frustrating because I did that Day 1 and you now are pushing my lynch as a result. Literally what the fuck.

I didn't ask to be IC. I hate being town power. Like, hate hate hate it.

But everything above is just facts. Like it or dislike it that's kinda just the way the story goes, so if you want a lynch that's not you find someone else and sell it to me.

And once again we get "All must follow my wagons", with an added dash of "I'm not going to change my mind or put effort in, you do the scum hunting" for taste.

I feel the fact Radiant didn't get killed last night means Radiants not targeting scum...

Or they've realized what it took me until today to figure out, that Radiant is a detriment to team town.

Elbirn, you can claim whatever you want. I know you're scum.

This is the point where if I wasn't IC I would be claiming cop with a guilty on you.

You're gonna feel like a real jackass when I flip.

And seriously, you got an idea in your head and you shut off all other possibilities. and youre smug about it? Also, you'd fake claim a guilty. I mean. Fuck. Does this site have a blacklist? I wanna make sure I don't wind up in a game with you again.

I should be mad only that you're pushing me, and not mad at you for pushing me for bad reasons.

I can see we're done here. You are beyond reason.

Bye Felicia

as I said before, I am inclined to agree RC's push here is rather shit. the way RC is pushing Elbirn right now is basically centered around semantics and tonal things that are more indicative of playstyle rather alignment. he was, imo, right to call RC out on it, and I do buy his frustration; usually when scum pull the ATE-all-over card in order to discredit someone, it feels out of place, but I can absolutely see where his frustration here is coming from.

the main thing I disliked was his end-of-D1 play. as others have said before me, it felt more like he was just coasting along and willing to lynch *whoever was about to get lynched* as opposed to pushing anyone specific, but that's about it, really

[pieguyn]

acryon/eektor:

these are mostly POE reads, but tl;dr here is that I don't see the town in their posts. it feels more like they're just attempting to coast and go with the flow, rather than making waves in the game. I don't remember anything either of them did particularly resonating or seeing anything that made me think they were legitimately trying to game solve.

in particular, I agree acryon's take on VDA v. copper was bad; it was basically textbook scum "at least one of xxx and yyy are scum but I don't know which"

with eektor, it's mostly that he's not doing anything that draws attention to himself; I remember basically nothing he's actually done that stood out as a town thought process, and most of the questions he's asked aren't particularly relevant. he's also been a huge non-presence this game in general.

[RadiantCowbells]

So you don't approve of my search for statements that don't fit a persons mental state

and instead go for a safe lynch-all-lurkers pov?

[pieguyn]

TF:

Spoiler:

Now, actually reading the game:

from the first 2 pages: @Monkeyman, how do you prefer to start your games if not with RVS?

54: Some buddying and chainsaw defending between Formerfish and Acryon. Null at this point but worth revising when one of them flips

70, @RadiantCowbells: Why are you against policy Lynches? You don't believe in either LyAllLiars or LyAllLurkers? They can be a good idea until they're not, but I don't oppose them on principle

83, @eektor: Yeah I was a bit lazy, I didn't have much time to read the posts at the time and less than 24h into the game is still pretty RVS for me. Now is time for more serious post. But still, your vote was also a pretty lazy thing to do

@copper, no post in particular: why the gloating about your experience as scum? Don't like it, and makes me want to lynch you. Not particularly scummy though, just don't think gloating is ever useful.

104, @victor: That is a shitty reason for a vote and you know it. Don't like this post a single bit

116, @Monkeyman: Don't like this interaction. If you thought FF was scummy before, you should have voted him before. Voting after accusing and after being called on it looks bad.

Biggest scum reads: Victor and Monkey

Minor: Eektor and copper

Everyone else: Null

As Monkey's wagon is already quite big, and I don't want to put him at L-2 at this stage, I'll VOTE: Victor, but am willing to move to Monkey if needed.

it's been said, but this reads list is absolute ass. he basically lists every single major target as scum. I also don't like the way he follows the consensus reason for copper being scum and then proceeds to hedge on it - it basically just comes off as way too wishy washy

Hmm I actually think it's more likely both Victor and Copper are town and Cheeto (than Vic/Cheeto scum team) is just taking advantage of the interaction. Not really much basis for it, but if I were scum, I would work a town/town cross accusation like that.

Of course, this doesn't mean Cheeto is scum. In fact, I believe in Victor scum more than Cheeto scum, I'm just saying that we should look for cheeto if Vic doesn't pan out.

I hope that I made myself clear, since the though process is muddy even in my head

then he completely fucking forgets about the scum reads on MM576 and eektor. this is not a town thought process; there is no follow-up on either of those reads anywhere up to this point, nor after this until the end-of-D1 wagon clusterfuck. was that town legitimately scumhunting, or scum testing the waters to see which wagon would gain the most traction? my money is on the latter.

@mokey: As you are at L-2, and that you say vic is scum, and copp only has 1 vote, and vic is at L-2 like you... Why are you not voting Vic?

Didn't really like your reaction, Monkey man

unvote, vote: MonkeyMan

You are the one at L-1 now

god. what the fuck is this? like, why the fuck would anyone who is scumhunting actually have this thought process? there is no *real* attempt to extract information or divine alignments here, it's just "lol reaction".

I'm inclined to believe Vic's claim. Anyhow, I'll wait for the replacement to vote, and hope nobody hammers in the meantime

If there is a Vigilante, should definitely shoot Monkey.

agreed

Intent to hammer Vic, if he is still alive by tonight, I will hammer

After rereading these last couple of posts by vic, I am reluctant to hammer him. I think a monkey or even an Elbirn lynch could be better, if there is still time to build a wagon. I urge people to jump wagons

this just came off like scum who was afraid to draw too much attention to themselves by hammering. and I realize this is somewhat conf-biasy, but I think it makes even more sense in the context of him getting a shitton of heat for the way he flip flopped voes before this. also, given I think MM576 is town, I don't like his attempt at sheeping Boon's statement vig should shoot MM; it takes basically no effort to make as scum.

I changed my mind on Vic because his last few posts read as REALLY town. I didn't do it because I was 'afraid' of looking scum by hammering. I was just convinced of his claim and final statements (at L-1) and thought maybe we could lynch someone else, as a Vic lynch was a bad idea.

Admittedly, my monkey vote looks bad, and it was a bad play on my part. Think of it as a failed gambit, so to speak.

As for now, I'll return to my previous vote

Vote: MonkeyMan

if this was a legit thought process, he should have posted it when it actually happened; I think it looks more like scum coming up with an excuse postmortem to justify their behavior.

IF monkey is scum, I believe his team is in those players [Monkey-Cheetory-(Boon/acryon/eektor)]. I believed he could be scum based on his play and because we had 3 leading wagons yesterday (Vic, copp and Monkey) and I reasoned one of them should be scum. Going from there and looking at who voted whom, and that there SHOULD be scum on Vic's wagon, then I posited the scumteam.

If he is not scum (and, as RC said, the way the wagon moved from copp (town) to him could indicate that) then Elbirn is the best way to go. And, as there seemed to be more support for an Elbirn lynch today, I thought my vote could be better there.

I still believe Monkey can be scum, but RC made a fair point there.

absolutely hate this. this is not how VCA works. you don't say "one of these wagons was scum, and these 2 were town, hence xxx is scum". with VCA, you have to take into account probability when doing it; the correct logic here is that, since 2 of them were town, it increases the chance every D1 wagon was on town.

on top of all this, I don't remember a single town thought process anywhere in his ISO. there is a distinct lack of scumhunting, full stop - there's no attempts to extract information from players, and most of what he's posted has been surface level analysis and an overly large focus on associatives which comes across as forced given he's trying to link large amounts of players together with basically no information.

he is fucking scum. kill it with fucking fire

VOTE: TF

[pieguyn]

I think it makes sense for TF to be bussed here given he's basically entirely dead weight. there is no way in hell he would be able to make it more than 1 or 2 more game days past here. it makes sense that he would be bussed sooner than later.

So you don't approve of my search for statements that don't fit a persons mental state

and instead go for a safe lynch-all-lurkers pov?

lol

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm thinking one scum might be on each of the wagons so that one player gets town cred no matter which of the wagons goes through.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's useful, Monkey.

Really.

[RadiantCowbells]

See the thing I don't like about the Toon lynch is it's just too easy a place for scum to be right now.

At least if this happens and flips town SK or Vig will shoot Elbirn.

[MonkeyMan576]

It is useful.

It would explain that scum are wanting to spread out the wagons in this situation rather than commit to any one wagon.

If Toon flips scum, we know you are town and we can look at night kill analysis and stand a pretty good chance of lynching scum day 3.

[MonkeyMan576]

See the thing I don't like about the Toon lynch is it's just too easy a place for scum to be right now.

At least if this happens and flips town SK or Vig will shoot Elbirn.

Scum are going to be on almost any scum wagon. It's not a good reason not to lynch scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let me explain why it's not useful.

Case 1: Scum Toon.

Toon was scum on Elbirn wagon.
For reasons previously stated, at least 1 scum on Toon wagon.

Case 2: Town Toon.

0 scum on Elbirn
Piles of scum on Toon.


So basically what you're saying is the equivalent to what you've already said, ie that Toon is scum.

Scum are going to be on almost any scum wagon. It's not a good reason not to lynch scum.

I'm not entirely convinced about Toon though. And you're becoming a scumread more and more for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean in hindsight my logic was that the vote swap onto you was really weird, right?

Well not so much really.

(eektor, Cheetory6, Futan, Elbirn, Formerfish)

That's like the townier half of the game + Elbirn, and is filled with the people who townread VictorDeAngelo so it sorta makes sense that they'd go for another avalaible lynch.

Pie, please unvote. We have 10 more days and I want to use them.

[MonkeyMan576]

We're only at L2 as far as I can tell. Wouldn't it make more sense to see who is willing to put someone at L1? We could unvote at that point.

[pieguyn]

Pie, please unvote. We have 10 more days and I want to use them.

is TF being at L-2 really that much of a problem? I don't want to unvote.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's L2.

Well, let's see what Boon and Former do.

[Formerfish]

Vote: Monkey

Your pushes so far this game have been lackluster, and you are making them on town. I think you are subtly trying to set Cheet up using the same tactic that caused the mislynch on day 1 which is bullshit. I don't see anything protown from your play so far, and no indication that you are going to change. Lynching you will also give us a good idea of what alignment Toon is.

@FF are you saying you think Toon is town?

I want to know what you saw in my post to think that I am calling Toon town here. Like I guess if I squint real tight I could see it, but no. I had a better idea of where I was going with the associative tells between those two last night after a few big rum and gingers, but now I'm not sure what I was seeing. Monkey is making a big push on Toon, but he is following some other people. After reading Pie's most recent walls I see that I might be under some confbias towards Monkey. I really hate being ignored in games when I am asking direct questions, and when people act like assholes (see Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban re: TSO). I read assholes as scum for some reason. I might need to do a hard reset of my reads because I feel like after Cop flipping town I feel all fucked up.

[Formerfish]

Unvote:

[pieguyn]

After reading Pie's most recent walls I see that I might be under some confbias towards Monkey.

where do you stand on TF atm?

[Boonskiies]

I'm right here guys. Be wary of putting Toon to L-1.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to know what you saw in my post to think that I am calling Toon town here. Like I guess if I squint real tight I could see it, but no. I had a better idea of where I was going with the associative tells between those two last night after a few big rum and gingers, but now I'm not sure what I was seeing. Monkey is making a big push on Toon, but he is following some other people. After reading Pie's most recent walls I see that I might be under some confbias towards Monkey. I really hate being ignored in games when I am asking direct questions, and when people act like assholes (see Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban re: TSO). I read assholes as scum for some reason. I might need to do a hard reset of my reads because I feel like after Cop flipping town I feel all fucked up.

hmm.

[eektor]

Vote: Monkey

Your pushes so far this game have been lackluster, and you are making them on town.

I think you are subtly trying to set Cheet up using the same tactic that caused the mislynch on day 1 which is bullshit. I don't see anything protown from your play so far, and no indication that you are going to change. Lynching you will also give us a good idea of what alignment Toon is.

@FF are you saying you think Toon is town?

I want to know what you saw in my post to think that I am calling Toon town here. Like I guess if I squint real tight I could see it, but no. I had a better idea of where I was going with the associative tells between those two last night after a few big rum and gingers, but now I'm not sure what I was seeing. Monkey is making a big push on Toon, but he is following some other people. After reading Pie's most recent walls I see that I might be under some confbias towards Monkey. I really hate being ignored in games when I am asking direct questions, and when people act like assholes (see Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkaban re: TSO). I read assholes as scum for some reason. I might need to do a hard reset of my reads because I feel like after Cop flipping town I feel all fucked up.

Look at bold. I know you were talking about Cheetory afterward, but Monkey is pushing and voting for Toon. But you did mention pushes, so I wanted to know whether you thought Toon was town.