Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[ika]

397?

i claimed bro, keep trying. if you still don't find it i can show you post-game

[ika]

hey i just isoed myself and found the part where i claimed

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 2.04

ika (3)- Debonair Danny DiPietro, Drixx, Diego1487
Pramitz (1)- numberQ
numberQ (1)- Bitmap
Diego1487 (1)- BRantz

Not voting: zombiekitty, Pramitz, ika

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Replacing

Pramitz

Deadline

22nd February, 4pm AEDT. This is in (expired on 2015-02-22 01:11:56).

[Drixx]

397?

i claimed bro, keep trying. if you still don't find it i can show you post-game

In 398 you responded to zombie's post by saying it caused you to both read him as town and

know

his role. There's nothing in his post (#397) that even hints at a role. You've now posited PRs for more people than there can possibly be PRs for, and claimed to know the "role" of what ... 4 people?

[Drixx]

This is interesting.

Lets go here instead.

VOTE: Diego1487

Why? With ika at L-1 and sitting there until he stopped playing BS games (first with the threats, now with the pretending to know things that he will of course never elaborate upon), the longer he sat there, the more suspicious it became for him to remain alive. There's more than ample reason at this point to pull the trigger, so only an over the top cautious scum team would just leave him sitting there at L-1 for days if he were actually town. I've never seen more blatant flailing in my life than ika this day phase, and so I gotta ask: why the vote swap to diego without reasoning? Was there some reason you felt the need to take that obvious "why is he still alive if he's town?" pressure away?

It would be one thing if you had presented some thoughts on why you didn't think ika is scum or why you think diego is ... but you just made some comments that mean nothing and swapped your vote. So when you said "This is interesting.", I take it you meant the post you were making at the time?

[Drixx]

@ika - In #345 you very slightly breadcrumb jailer or doctor. In #390 you "read" yourself as town, and pointed out 4 people whose roles you claim to have divined, including someone you say is scum and has a role.

The only blatant claim you have made is regarding your alignment. In #345 you are saying that the IC is the default target on the first night unless some other person slips and obviously has a PR or in some other way causes the scum team to feel the need to kill them. You then imply the obvious thing to do, if you have a role that can do it, is to save the IC. That's not anything approaching obvious or blatant.

Oh, and I found it amusing whilest reading your ISO when I got to the part where you called me out for not naming who I would have killed if I were scum. I think I'm the only person who even entertained your question at all. By your logic, you're in a game with 8 scum and just you as town, since nobody else even bothered trying to talk to you and get responses from you in order to read you based upon more than just that one post. #SMH

[ika]

lol drixx, if your town your really confimation biased to me.

i have not lied about claiming, you just havent found it yet. keep looking good chap or are you claiming to eb scum right now to em?

[ika]

397?

i claimed bro, keep trying. if you still don't find it i can show you post-game

In 398 you responded to zombie's post by saying it caused you to both read him as town and

know

his role. There's nothing in his post (#397) that even hints at a role. You've now posited PRs for more people than there can possibly be PRs for, and claimed to know the "role" of what ... 4 people?

who said he was hinting at a role in 397? you really know how to twist shit dont you, or is it maybe that you dont understand /how/ i got it.

thats fine with me drixx you can keep tunnling me

[BRantz]

This is interesting.

Lets go here instead.

VOTE: Diego1487

Why? With ika at L-1 and sitting there until he stopped playing BS games (first with the threats, now with the pretending to know things that he will of course never elaborate upon), the longer he sat there, the more suspicious it became for him to remain alive. There's more than ample reason at this point to pull the trigger, so only an over the top cautious scum team would just leave him sitting there at L-1 for days if he were actually town. I've never seen more blatant flailing in my life than ika this day phase, and so I gotta ask: why the vote swap to diego without reasoning? Was there some reason you felt the need to take that obvious "why is he still alive if he's town?" pressure away?

It would be one thing if you had presented some thoughts on why you didn't think ika is scum or why you think diego is ... but you just made some comments that mean nothing and swapped your vote. So when you said "This is interesting.", I take it you meant the post you were making at the time?

So first off, just because I didn't lay out the reasons I changed my vote doesn't mean there weren't any. Second, what happened to calm, civil drixx? I am not sure your freak out about me unvoting is even a little warranted. Third, I have talked about diego, in fact I even said that he was my second scum read when I gave my reads upon replacing in. So logically, when I decided ika shouldn't be on the block anymore, I switched.

Now, if I thought you might actually be interested in discussing it, instead of just yelling, I could be convinced to talk with you about why I don't think ika should be the lynch today. But for now, just calm the fuck down.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The only blatant claim you have made is regarding your alignment.

He's claimed VT (#314).

So first off, just because I didn't lay out the reasons I changed my vote doesn't mean there weren't any. Second, what happened to calm, civil drixx? I am not sure your freak out about me unvoting is even a little warranted. Third, I have talked about diego, in fact I even said that he was my second scum read when I gave my reads upon replacing in. So logically, when I decided ika shouldn't be on the block anymore, I switched.

Now, if I thought you might actually be interested in discussing it, instead of just yelling, I could be convinced to talk with you about why I don't think ika should be the lynch today. But for now, just calm the fuck down.

You do realize that Drixx isn't the only player in the game, yeah? And that some of the rest of us might be annoyed and curious when you decide to break momentum on a good wagon and don't do anything productive with it? People don't realize how much mafia is a game of momentum and when you halt the momentum in one place if you're not getting momentum going in another you are actively harming the town because it leads to the painful sort of lethargy we saw at the end of the day yesterday.

[Drixx]

Why do people read tone into text? Text, by definition, has no tone. There's no caps or anything to indicate yelling in post #404. You read it as not calm and "freak out" because it was aimed at you and intended to put pressure on you. Even the abbreviation I used (BS) was about ika and not aimed at all at you BRantz.

In fact ... all I see in that post is a few pointed questions aimed at you. That's all it takes to make you think someone has lost their cool? They merely ask you some hard questions, and you resort to ad hominem? Your entire post is fallacious and just bad. You had to go out of your way to pretend my post was "just yelling" and "freak out" and such to give yourself an excuse not to share your reasoning for "deciding ika shouldn't be on the block anymore".

It looks like I hit a nerve big time with my questions, because you're the one who freaked out, lashed out at me for no apparent reason, and piled on with ad hominem attacks to avoid answering my questions.


@DDD - thanks for the post reference. So if he's a VT, how is it he can claim to know the "role" (which is different from just alignment, yes?) of 4 or 5 people? That seems like a last ditch desperation thing. Thoughts?

[ika]

drixx how much longer are you going to focus on such silly things? its becoming stupid that your basicly trying to put the square in the round hole

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - thanks for the post reference. So if he's a VT, how is it he can claim to know the "role" (which is different from just alignment, yes?) of 4 or 5 people? That seems like a last ditch desperation thing. Thoughts?

I don't see how his claimed role matters at all in the discussion; there's no role in a newbie game that would provide him that much information at this point in the game. And I know you're going to jump to "he's lying" and in a sense he is but that's not actually important; the important thing is why is he doing it?

Well the generic version is obvious, he's signaling. Now the real question is who or what he's signaling, the first possible signal is his continued attempt to seem town except I really don't see how him guessing at people's roles makes him seem town, the second possible signal is that he's signaling to everyone to look how clever he is having read several people that well and maybe that's what he's doing but if so it's just worthless masturbatory behavior, and the final possible signal I can come up with his he's sending signals to his scum partner, either representing who he thinks they should kill/block the next night if he's not around or signaling that he thinks he has useful information and his partner should try to protect him.

[Drixx]

Of course there's no role in a newbie game that would let him know roles, and of course I don't believe he actually has figured out whatever PR(s) are in the game and whomever has them. I'll buy the premise of essentially coded in the clear communication though, as I usually set up code phrases with scum partners myself, especially if I feel I might be a lynch wagon. Generally I set up a phrase or something that's slightly out of character for me and if I give it, then they should feel free to use my lynch to get as many town points as possible.

This just seems really blatantly out in the open on his part, and I was kind of thinking maybe I was missing something or coming to an obvious conclusion instead of a probable one.


What do you think of BRantz in #408? I wasn't in the least bit emotional or irritated or anything else when I made the post. I've re-read it a couple times to try and see how he arrived at "freaking out" and "yelling", and I don't see it. For the moment, I read it as either staged or an emotional response to pointed questions.

[ika]

IMO your reaction was way over exaggerated on his unvote and changing it. hence why its a freak out. its much easier to just go "why the change of heart" instead of making a huged fucking phragraph about it

Also i can easily disperse most of DDD theory talk right now, if i was going down it would be easier for me to just blaitently post it out in the open for my partner if i had one then to try to send all odd messages

[ika]

im just board at this point and still waiting so im just going to be all cryptic just to piss people off. i told you i would give out my reads but it also comes to that i out what role i think they are.

you have to learn that even if you dont crumb, you can still figure a person role. ill explain post game unless if you want me to basicly out what i think half of the people are

[numberQ]

I think BRantz overreacted to Drixx's response to his vote switch, but having been in the "read the tone of a post wrong" camp, I don't think the fact that he read it wrong is noteworthy. (Yes, Drixx, all text posts can and do have a tone. No one writes in a highly emotional game like Mafia without putting their own biased tone on things, and likewise no one reads without putting bias on it either. That's how scumhunting is even possible in most cases.)

The vote itself and his reaction to reading it wrong, though, might be noteworthy.

@Brantz

, why did you switch your vote? And why did you deny useful information (ie, why you vote switched) just because you didn't like the way Drixx asked you for it? That's a pretty strong reaction, especially considering post 363 when you tell me that Drixx is acting pretty nice. What is your read on Drixx?

@zombiekitty

, so where is your vote? Your only two scum reads have one vote each. Do neither of them strike you as scummy enough to vote even though they aren't in any danger of being lynched yet?

[BRantz]

@Drixx: You are right, I may have read more into your tone than intended. But no where in that post do I attack your character, so there is no ad hominem attack. Very strangely text tone is very important in this game drixx, so people read into it, I was obviously wrong about what you wrote, my bad.

@DDD: I do realize drixx isn't the only person in the game. At the time his post looked to me to be trying overly hard to throw a negative light on my change of vote, reading it again after I have slept it reads very differently. Also you cannot even possibly blame me for halting momentum on that wagon, ika had been at L-1 for like 5 days and nothing had happened. I am postulating that if he is scum (which I actually don't think he is) his buddy was already on the wagon. Also, he has not stated any roles (so no role guessing), just that he is pretty sure of what people's roles are, do you feel they are the same thing? Why?

@numQ: Drixx is pretty clearly town to me at this point. I changed my vote because I actually don't think ika is scum anymore. I have a little experience with his scum meta, and this doesn't seem to fit it, but also he actually gave us some game relevant information (in his reads). Yes speculating on roles is not worthwhile, which is why absolutely no one has asked him to elaborate on his reads I assume? But he actually seems to be at least trying to play again (which is very different than most of day 2 has been).

[DeasVail]

ForWhomTheJellyRolls replaces Pramitz.

[Drixx]

Welcome FWtJR

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

Hiya. I am reading through right now. I will post my thoughts soonish.

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

So that read through was something...

Some early initial scumish reads: Drixx, Letters/Brantz, and maybe Bitmap. These are mostly gut reads that jumped out at me early.

I don't know what to think about ika. He is null-leaning town to me and I think it is better that he stopped his "whoa is me everyone is lynching me for shitty reasons thing" and started to do something.

I did not take good enough notes. My scummy read on Drixx mostly comes from page 1 and 2.

There was a lot about letters that I found questionable day 1. I did not like his reaction to being put at L-1. Brantz seems better. I did not see what was not calm and civil about Drixx's reaction to your vote there though. Your reaction to that seemed more emotional and heated. Drixx seems verbose in general so that does not seem unusual or different, but tone is hard to convey in text and easy to misinterpret.

I did not like Zombiekitty's complaining about the lack of information in day 2. You make a couple of posts about it and they are not that helpful. Who is reading Zombiekitty as townie and why?

VOTE: Zombiekitty

I am not sure what to think of NumberQ and DDD or Diego at the moment.

[Diego1487]

Who is reading Zombiekitty as townie and why?

His reaction reads classic VT to me. Excited he's finally getting something to work on, and then nothing.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What do you think of BRantz in #408? I wasn't in the least bit emotional or irritated or anything else when I made the post. I've re-read it a couple times to try and see how he arrived at "freaking out" and "yelling", and I don't see it. For the moment, I read it as either staged or an emotional response to pointed questions.

I don't see any of that; maybe it's overstatement on his part but I'm not see anything worth really thinking about.

Also i can easily disperse most of DDD theory talk right now, if i was going down it would be easier for me to just blaitently post it out in the open for my partner if i had one then to try to send all odd messages

Your wagon fell from L-1 to L-2, going "hey scumpartner do X" would get you lynched, while secretive talk just annoys everyone but allows you to communicate as you want.

@DDD: I do realize drixx isn't the only person in the game. At the time his post looked to me to be trying overly hard to throw a negative light on my change of vote, reading it again after I have slept it reads very differently. Also you cannot even possibly blame me for halting momentum on that wagon, ika had been at L-1 for like 5 days and nothing had happened. I am postulating that if he is scum (which I actually don't think he is) his buddy was already on the wagon. Also, he has not stated any roles (so no role guessing), just that he is pretty sure of what people's roles are, do you feel they are the same thing? Why?

And that's the sort of bullshit VCA nonsense I hate " I am postulating that if he is scum (which I actually don't think he is) his buddy was already on the wagon." What on earth suggests that to you?

Furthermore, I didn't say you weren't allowed to get off the ika wagon, I think it's a good wagon and you should get back on, but I understand everyone has their own agendas and reads but if you are going to get off the ika wagon in that way it's not enough to simply get off. You need to push in another direction because momentum is a very real thing, there was momentum towards an ika lynch, now there's not but you provided nothing to fill the void which means apathy seeps in and that's a massive scum tool.

He is null-leaning town to me and I think it is better that he stopped his "whoa is me everyone is lynching me for shitty reasons thing" and started to do something.

Who is reading Zombiekitty as townie and why?

It would be great if he did that; he had all of day one to do something productive and all he did was vote for me and sit on it. Day two started and he had a chance to reboot things and instead of making sure he started the day with a fresh push (like I did) he repeated the same old bullshit and did nothing productive and then when his wagon happened instead of defending himself in a reasonable fashion or ignoring it to find scum he just whined and cried. He's had multiple chances and done nothing with any of them, I think we're past the point where we rationalize that behavior.

And not me, tell me she doesn't just read as ika's partner who is incredibly flustered because of their plans falling apart.

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

Who is reading Zombiekitty as townie and why?

His reaction reads classic VT to me. Excited he's finally getting something to work on, and then nothing.

His reaction to what exactly?

@DDD, what you are saying makes sense. I was actually leery of reading too much into ika in my initial read through. I have played with ika before and I want to look at my past experience with him and see if his behavior is ika being ika before I make a more definite read on him.