Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[Flames682]

Votecount 3.02

acryon - 3 (Cheetory6, Elbirn, pieguyn)

Elbirn - 2 (MonkeyMan576, RadiantCowbells)

Cheetory6 - 1 (Boonskiies)

Not Voting - 2 (eektor, acryon)

With

8

alive, it's

5

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Saturday, February 28, @ 8:15 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2015-02-28 20:15:00).

[Flames682]

To clear up any confusion, the traitor did know who the Mafia were. That is all the information I will provide.

[eektor]

I'm clearly not on the same time zone as you guys. I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages of posts.

Based on what the mod said I'm going to guess that the other mafia (it can't be just one so 2) wouldn't know that fish was one of them. It kind of makes sense because I couldn't see any connection for a 3 scum team.

Reading on Fish's ISO, I see a push on Monkey for the whole game (Monkey is most likely town now), voting acryon when there was a Toon wagon (leaning town on acryon), and a buddying with Cheetory. I think out of the 3 people voting acryon right now, 2 of them is scum.

VOTE: Cheetory

[eektor]

Did a hunt through FF's ISO.
Hi guys look I'm FF crumbing my role.

I think Cheet is not a killer, at least not last night.

Pretty sure it's clear who he targetted N1.

On second thought that might be why Fish got killed and make Cheetory more town, although I'll say null because it still did seem that Fish was buddying up to him.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elbirn

[pieguyn]

I'm clearly not on the same time zone as you guys. I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages of posts.

Based on what the mod said I'm going to guess that the other mafia (it can't be just one so 2) wouldn't know that fish was one of them. It kind of makes sense because I couldn't see any connection for a 3 scum team.

Reading on Fish's ISO, I see a push on Monkey for the whole game (Monkey is most likely town now), voting acryon when there was a Toon wagon (leaning town on acryon), and a buddying with Cheetory. I think out of the 3 people voting acryon right now, 2 of them is scum.

VOTE: Cheetory

why do you think there are specifically 2 scum on the acryon wagon?

[pieguyn]

also, fwiw, FF almost definitely got killed for his crumb

[eektor]

I'm clearly not on the same time zone as you guys. I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages of posts.

Based on what the mod said I'm going to guess that the other mafia (it can't be just one so 2) wouldn't know that fish was one of them. It kind of makes sense because I couldn't see any connection for a 3 scum team.

Reading on Fish's ISO, I see a push on Monkey for the whole game (Monkey is most likely town now), voting acryon when there was a Toon wagon (leaning town on acryon), and a buddying with Cheetory. I think out of the 3 people voting acryon right now, 2 of them is scum.

VOTE: Cheetory

why do you think there are specifically 2 scum on the acryon wagon?

Well, I'm pretty sure there is 2 scum left. If the 2 scum aren't on acryon's wagon, then the only thing I can think of is Boon is scum with one of the ones in acryon's wagon and I can't see a link between Boon and the 3 of you.

[eektor]

@pie if acryon is scum, who would be his scum partner?

[pieguyn]

o, so it's based on the reads you gave. I need sleep -.-

*why* does FF voting acryon when there was a TF wagon make acryon town, and *why* is FF buddying Cheetory more indicative of scum x scum as opposed to scum buddying up to town? I don't like how vague you're being (and I particularly want your answer to the 1st question)

p-edit: haven't got that far yet, but iirc Boon (off memory) and you (via POE) are both possibilities. I want to do some rereading before solidifying anything

[eektor]

Why would scum try to get a buddy lynched when there is an easy town lynch to go after? As far as I was thinking at the end of day 2 was we were probably going to be in lylo today. It just so happens we got lucky with what happened last night. Scum just needed an easy lynch and then try to set themselves up for a mislynch in lylo. I'm not saying that acryon is for sure town, but I'm saying it makes more sense to me that he is town than scum.

FF buddying to Cheetory could have been scum buddying up to town, which is why I unvoted Cheetory.

From your perspective those would be the only two possibilities for acryon scum partner. From my perspective acryon's partner would have to be Boon.

Now if acryon was town, what would be your thoughts on who is scum?

[pieguyn]

. . . since when was that the reason you unvoted Cheetory?

On second thought that might be why Fish got killed and make Cheetory more town, although I'll say null because it still did seem that Fish was buddying up to him.

it looks like you said FF's crumb made Cheetory town and that your read at the end was null, which indicates you still think the buddying was indicative of scum. I don't see where in here you're considering FF might have been buddying Cheetory as town. I want to know *why* you're ruling this out.

Why would scum try to get a buddy lynched when there is an easy town lynch to go after? As far as I was thinking at the end of day 2 was we were probably going to be in lylo today. It just so happens we got lucky with what happened last night. Scum just needed an easy lynch and then try to set themselves up for a mislynch in lylo. I'm not saying that acryon is for sure town, but I'm saying it makes more sense to me that he is town than scum.

strongly disagree with this. there are a fuckton of reasons FF would vote acryon-scum here:

1. it is possible FF did this on purpose in order to mislead. this is even more so the case given he was a traitor and I think both of the other people on the acryon wagon were town
2. it is possible FF didn't think acryon would *actually* get lynched
3. FF might just like bussing in general. there might be no reason for it; some people bus no matter how little sense it makes
.
.
.

you're greatly oversimplifying the logic here. I want to hear your explanation for why you didn't stop to consider stuff like this before declaring acryon was prob town.

Now if acryon was town, what would be your thoughts on who is scum?

i have no interest in entertaining this hypothetical right now

it will be interesting to see you attempt to get out of this

[Elbirn]

Alrighty, so I'm on a computer now. Apologies, was out and about last night and with a sudden ridiculous snow storm it wasn't really practical for me to drive home, so I wound up crashing at a friends place. I've been paying attention from my phone obviously but yeah. Time to play.

After the Fish flip:

More likely town:
Acryon - willing to confront Fish more often than other players.
Boon - confronted Fish on a couple of issues.


More likely scum -
Cheetory6 - avoided contact with Fish for the most part, even though he was active himself.
pie - called Fish obvtown.
Elbirn - Very active and opinionated, but avoided Fish altogether.

No Change
Eeetor - Not incredibly active, avoided Fish.

Confirmed Town
Monkeyman576
RadiantCowbell

Vote: Elbirn

So the problem with this whole line of thinking is that Main-Scum Team clearly didn't know who their traitor was. This entire post relies on a belief in the opposite. Into the trash it goes. If we want to look at interactions, we have to look at what Former has said and done.

The decision to vote me based on Fishy's flip stinks. It just seems weird that you vote me for it. See 1166. Like, okay, we have more info to work with after the flip so your reads are going to change, I get it. But how in the halibut do you go from "Toon/Boon/Eektor" as the scumteam, to FF flips scum, to voting for ME? Toon flipped Town, then you fallaciously believe that Boon is more likely town after the FF flip...Which still leaves Eektor. You don't list him as more town or more scum, which doesn't make sense considering he did the same thing that your other three "more likely scums" did. Which is crap. And then you vote me. I'm trying to understand your thought process here and it just isn't natural. It seems to imply that your entire reasoning for voting me is an avoidance of FF, even though several others were guilty of the same thing, even though if I WERE scum I wouldn't know he was also scum, and even though you had two other scum reads prior. It just doesn't make any sense. Please elaborate.

my initial thought is that FF had most of the scum in his scum reads, and that's why he died - it is usually normal traitor play (for a traitor who knows his team) to slightly bus your teammates so they can figure out who you are. this would (again) point to acryon.

WIFOM!

Discrediting a line of reasoning with a buzzword. And to once again defend Acryon. Hm.

I agree with post 1214.

Also, there were 2 deaths N1.

Have you considered that maybe it wasn't mafia who killed the traitor?

Aren't Vigilantes limited in the number of kills they can make? With Town having a confirmed innocent and mafia having a gimped teammate, I wouldn't be surprised if Town powerroles were also at some kind of disadvantage. What if our Vig was only 1-shot? Or, rather, what if the vig was roleblocked, or his target protected?

Either way, I can't really think of a reason why our Vig would pick FF of all people. I mean, show of hands, who suspected FF? Pretty much no one. It makes more sense for Team Scum to have picked up on his crumb mentioned in 1234, thought he was a tracker or something of the sort, or maybe vig, or idk, and killed him for it.

------------------
I think it's likely that FF bussed the fuck out of Monkey really early on to get the attention of team scum ("Here I am guize, pay attention to meeee"), and then did the same bussing to Acryon D2. I think Monkey has been defending his scumbuddy Acryon lately, and I think Acryon's done the same in return. This is team scum ladies and gentleman.

Btw, I have an inkling who cop is, and if you're reading this mistah cop and you have a guilty, you should totes just out it.

[Elbirn]

Actually no that's dumb. Crumb it or something and I'll out it. Or not, just keep doing what you're doing. What do I know, I'm a mere noob.

[MonkeyMan576]

Even if Fish didn't know who his buddies were, he still would have based his interactions on who he thought was scum and who he thought was town. He wanted town to die and wanted scum to live, which is why he tried to mislynch me so hard day 1. Looking at how people interacted with fish is still entirely appropriate. Discrediting Fish interactions is scummy.

It's possible scum killed fish by accident, not knowing he was scum. It's also possible there's a vig or SK and the scum kill was blocked or doctored.

[Elbirn]

You misunderheard me. Fish knew who his buddies were, and this is mod confirmed. I do not believe his scummates knew who he was. You misrepresenting me is scummy

[Elbirn]

Looking at how Fish interacted with others is good. Looking at how others interacted with him not so much, I feel.

[Cheetory6]

To clear up any confusion, the traitor did know who the Mafia were. That is all the information I will provide.

@Monkey

[acryon]

Going to have to think about all of this a bit, but at least last night went a lot better than the night before

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, my bad. Then looking at Fish's interactions, like I said, is entirely appropriate.

[eektor]

@pie

I unvoted Cheetory because of the crumb he mentioned plus the thought that Fish buddying up with him could actually be scum vs town. So let me see, you want me to bump Cheetory from a null to a town lean, then. Why are you defending Cheetory?

Then you talk about all the ways why FF could vote acryon - scum and say I am oversimplifying things and of course you don't even want to think about the other option which includes all the possibilities in which acryon is town? If you want to show me why acryon scum makes more sense than acryon town, you better show me what you think about acryon - town and why that makes less sense than acryon - scum. Otherwise, I'm content with my vote right now.

[Boonskiies]

Looks like I'm going to be the hammer toDay, on either Acryon or Elbirn.

@Eektor - FF totally would do stuff like that to throw us off, though. I'm more convinced he was bussing his partners instead of pushing town. He'd want to seem like a threat to scum, and as townie as he could to town members. Alas, my cheetory vote.

@Elbirn - go back and read Boon vs FF. If you think FF scum is arguing in that sense to a scum partner, I don't even know how to help you. Come to think of it, I'm going to go back and look at my reads from that time. Maybe him and I started fighting because I was onto something. More on this later.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that just ctrl-F ing through Formerfish`s ISO for elb would cause any sensible human being to vote Elbirn.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think FF was trying to throw us off in this game as much as he might otherwise. I think he was a little thrown off being on his own, so to speak, so he played a more straight forward game.

[Boonskiies]

@MM - he was aware of who his partners were. I highly doubt it was a straight forward game.

Also, after ctrl+f'ing Elbirn on FF, I found out that he was expecting to try and get a mislynch on me for my usual play, but he couldn't get anything due to me not being as super trolly village idiot this game.

Also, @RC, I don't understand how that ctrl+f'ing Elb made any sensible human being wanting to vote Elbirn. I still think Cheetory is our best bet.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, but he couldn't communicate with his partners at night, so all of his actions were on his own merit rather than being coached or working as a team.