Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[TellTaleHeart]

No, it's not. I didn't have any scum reads on anyone else, which is actually most of the reason why I was insistent on getting Futan's catch-up.

[ChannelDelibird]

I have reads on everybody except him

I didn't have any scum reads on anyone else

So you thought everyone else was town?

If that were the case, the following would be true:
a) You'd know that your own reads were wrong and wouldn't be so happy to go along with them
b) You'd damn well have kept your vote on the only person whom you weren't townreading

I call bullshit.

[onion]

oye that was my info dump and getting up to speed from being 6 pages behind. it sure does contain Information because that's what i'm collecting. I stuck it all in there in an easy to read and understand format so i can use it more later. its called collecting information.

And i did analyse, but i'd like to do much more. I think that Llama and Tripod don't share an alignment, and so if we end up lynching one a week from now, it'll help us with the other. Tripod is hella anti-town, but his no fucks given attitude might indicate town. Other people who have played with him before seem to indicate that he plays this way when town, so i don't really know. Llama is the other half this argument, and he's kinda hard to read. He saw Tripod shenanigans coming, FOS'd him, then voted for him later. So i've asked him about it. Maybe he'll say something scummy and i'll get a lead on him, or maybe he won't and i'll end up thinking Tripod is the scum instead of him. we'll just have to see.

I suppose the opinion is 'either llama or tripod are scum but not both.' Llama was on the cogito list, so there's that too. I also stated that i got a townread on Bubs. but that doesn't mean i'll always have that read on him. So i left myself a remeinder about something fishy about him. He's been voting for people who vote for Llama. If llama turns out to be scum, its something worth looking at again in a few days.

[Derangement]

I don't think much of Derangement's #26; it recognises why Equinox's nightkill analysis exists but does not act upon it either way. Dee should really be reconsidering their random vote in light of this. I also think it's weird that Llama picks out GIF for alleged ignoring of the actual consequences of said analysis but didn't mention Derangement doing the same, when GIF had a better excuse for his own response.

Dee, which pronoun do you prefer?

At the time of my #26, I was inclined to consider Equinox's premise that one of those five likely had a say in picking CES for the night kill, but wasn't well-enough acquainted with any of these players to swap my random vote for just a slightly less random one.
I'd rather wait a little longer and make every vote important, by using it on someone I distrust more than the rest.
Especially when L-2s happen on page 2.

As for pronouns, I'm comfortable with pretty much any of them.
Feel free to use whichever you prefer, you can't go wrong.

[Derangement]

Onion, allow me to help you develop better communication and analysis skills.

UNVOTE: Untrod Tripod
VOTE: Onion

Please elaborate on your reads, and answer people's questions.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have reads on everybody except him

I didn't have any scum reads on anyone else

So you thought everyone else was town?

If that were the case, the following would be true:
a) You'd know that your own reads were wrong and wouldn't be so happy to go along with them
b) You'd damn well have kept your vote on the only person whom you weren't townreading

I call bullshit.

I respond to your "bullshit" with a "fuck that noise."

For one, I don't know how that would tell me my reads were wrong. And for another, I'm not voting someone I'm not scum reading for the sake of "having a vote out there," which I don't equate with being productive anyway. You're scumreading me for not having the same attitude towards the vote you do.

[ChannelDelibird]

It is impossible for you to have a read on every player but one, all of which are town reads, and to believe that those reads are right, unless you believe that there is only one scum in this game.

[Derangement]

Speaking of having votes out there, and using them on scumreads:
When are you planning to actually

use

yours, Onion?

[TellTaleHeart]

You don't even know what the reads are, so why are you acting like you do?

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, I'm operating under the assumption of two scum in the game.

[petroleumjelly]

Day One, Vote Count #6

onion – 4 – TellTaleHeart, Equinox, ChannelDelibird, Derangement
LlamaFluff – 2 – prawneater, Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod – 2 – Onion Bubs, LlamaFluff
Derangement – 1 – onion
TellTaleHeart – 1 – GuyInFreezer

With

11 alive

it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is

March 5, 2015, at 6:45 AM PST

.

Not Voting – 1 – Futan

Searching for a replacement for Futan.

[onion]

question where's the question? which questions are directed at me? I'm pretty sure i've stated my read, its that either llama or tripod is a scum, but not both. I don't think Bubs is scum, or Derangement. I don't have much of a read on much of the others, but that'll happen at some point i'm sure. I'll very probably vote for either Tripod or Llama after llama responds.

[Derangement]

Also, I'm operating under the assumption of two scum in the game.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

Town would need to be on steroids to handle three of them in what is effectively an 11p game, and I'm just not seeing it right now.

[Untrod Tripod]

Also, I'm operating under the assumption of two scum in the game.

...why?

[TellTaleHeart]

question where's the question? which questions are directed at me? I'm pretty sure i've stated my read, its that either llama or tripod is a scum, but not both. I don't think Bubs is scum, or Derangement. I don't have much of a read on much of the others, but that'll happen at some point i'm sure. I'll very probably vote for either Tripod or Llama after llama responds.

If you don't think Llama's already answered your question, I very much doubt you'll find anything he says at this point satisfactory.

[Untrod Tripod]

that either-or argument is always, has always, and will always be a terrible way to scumhunt

[ChannelDelibird]

You don't even know what the reads are, so why are you acting like you do?

If you explicitly say that you have reads on everyone but that none of them are scumreads, then either they are all townreads or some are "null" reads, which is just a confession to the absence of an alignment read and therefore not the sort of thing that would lead you to say 'I've sorted everyone else so it's just Futan with whom I need to deal'.

You should tell us your reads on everyone were at the time and whether or not they've changed since then. At the moment, with the information available to me, it's hard not to conclude that you have lied somewhere.

[Derangement]

question where's the question? which questions are directed at me?

• "The Cogito List Case"
  Cogito was not an active player apparently, and the scum would have NK'd someone they knew, thus scum ought to be someone who played with Cogito (017), and that list is: CBD, GIF, Llama, Tripod.

  I've removed Equinox from this list because he posted the list.

  GIF doubted the list (018).

  
  Nooo. Onion, why?
  Why would you do something like this?

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, I'm operating under the assumption of two scum in the game.

...why?

Before I signed up for the game, I stalked petroleumjelly's posting history in the Mafia Discussion section of the forum.
(I also stalked a few old games of some of the players.

I'm watching you.

)

I found this thread: Multiple Scum Groups
Specifically, this post:

The problem is, nowadays mods seem to think "more scum = better games." As has proven just fine by mountainous games, you don't need a lot of scum to make a game interesting and tight. In fact, I think sometimes

less

scum tends to be more interesting. I think the problem is Mods do not want to use a plethora of Townies, and so when they add lots of Town power roles, they figure that can balanced by giving scum more numbers and their own powers.

Since the "norm" for 13 player games is 3 scum, I'm roughly extrapolating that to 2 scum for 12 player (essentially 11 player due to the night start).

[Untrod Tripod]

HA

useful meta. good find.

[Untrod Tripod]

that being said, we know almost nothing about this setup, so let's keep the setup speculation to an absolute minimum until we have more info

[Derangement]

that being said, we know almost nothing about this setup, so let's keep the setup speculation to an absolute minimum until we have more info

Good call.
We can worry about this kind of thing when it becomes relevant.

I'm comfortable with just the uneducated guess at scum numbers, for now, if it means we make their job that much harder.

[TellTaleHeart]

You should tell us your reads on everyone were at the time and whether or not they've changed since then. At the moment, with the information available to me, it's hard not to conclude that you have lied somewhere.

At the time, I had townreads on everyone who I listed before in Post 143 for various reasons. I had a slight town read on you based on simple intuition: I didn't believe you would be so brazen to talk about the night kill like you did as scum in Post 13. onion was another slight townread because I thought the tone of his opening Post 37 sounded relaxed and unforced; that was another gut read. That left LlamaFluff's slot, who I was scumreading (and still am), and Futan. This was cause for me to remove the vote and await content from Futan, which I believed would be posted promptly. From there reads could be re-evaluated, but there was no one at the time I wanted to move my vote to.

[Equinox]

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

[...]

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

Interesting. Why would you-scum have looked it up rather than asked about it?

How do you feel about LlamaFluff's attack on Untrod Tripod?

I suppose the opinion is 'either llama or tripod are scum but not both.' Llama was on the cogito list, so there's that too. I also stated that i got a townread on Bubs. but that doesn't mean i'll always have that read on him. So i left myself a remeinder about something fishy about him. He's been voting for people who vote for Llama. If llama turns out to be scum, its something worth looking at again in a few days.

That's still not much of an opinion? But okay, let's roll with you wanting to hear from LlamaFluff before passing judgment. What makes you think that he and Untrod Tripod are of different alignments? Why is the Cogito Ergo Sum list still important at this stage of the game?

Also, why would voting for people who voted for LlamaFluff be "fishy"? What do you think of the people who have voiced disagreement with the case against LlamaFluff?

[prawneater]

I think GIF is more town than not. I don't know GIF, but I think if I were scum in that spot, I'd look up my games rather than ask if I was in that game. If I was town in that spot I think I'd just ask and not bother looking it up.

[...]

I don't like LF's attack on GIF. I read it as scum under pressure trying to contrive a scummy angle on someone else.

Interesting. Why would you-scum have looked it up rather than asked about it?

Scum-me would be freaked out that I was on a suspect list and I'd want to see what my dynamic was with CES. Town-me wouldn't care as much.

How do you feel about LlamaFluff's attack on Untrod Tripod?

It's better than his attack on GIF. I think UT's play was fine, but I can see someone not liking it.

What I don't like about LF's play is he seems more concerned with saving his skin and making a counter-wagon than figuring out the game. He responds to attacks but he doesn't ask many questions or comment on any other happenings.

@LlamaFluff

Do you have any reads other than UT or GIF?