Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[Cheetory6]

Elbirn's scumgame looks more familiar to this game than Boon's scumgame to this game. Zzzz.
I want an Elbirn case.

UNVOTE:

[Flames682]

Votecount 3.08

Elbirn - 4 (RadiantCowbells, eektor, MonkeyMan576, Boonskiies)

Boonskiies - 2 (pieguyn, Elbirn)

Not Voting - 2 (acryon, Cheetory6)

With

8

alive, it's

5

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Saturday, February 28, @ 8:15 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2015-02-28 20:15:00).

[MonkeyMan576]

Elbirn case:
Avoided Fish for most of day one and two
Now is avoiding Pie.
Is being pretty OMGUSy by targeting me after I targeted him.

[Cheetory6]

Can I just save us all time and link her ISO?

Seriously she's one of the few people in this game who actually makes any damn sense. I like her analysis, I like her thought process, it all reads as genuine to me. Go read 929, 930, & 932. Tell me that isn't a damn townie entrance. I don't agree with 100% of it, but it seems to me that she's been trying to game-solve this whole time, and if scum can fake it that well, then congratulations Team-Scum, ya got me. It's also interesting how many townreads she threw out there, and thoroughly explained WHY. I don't see scum being that generous with townreads, nor do I see them giving an in depth explanation for every single one. Her stances on several players in particular, I felt, went against the grain; Monkeyman, Boon, and myself being townread at this stage I found to be notable, considering many were against us, particularly Monkey and myself.

In the rereading I did for this post, I had an initial worry about her stance on FF, she threw out a townread for him and when I prodded her about it her answer was very brief... and then I remembered; FF was the traitor, so *Team-Scum didn't know he was with them*. And that's it, that's the only scummy thing I could see.

I'm also a big fan of the fact that she pushes people and has actual arguments/discussions with people instead of making commentary and vaguely sniping like everyone else. And her frustration with Eektor/Boon reads genuine to me. All of this, imo, is coming from town. Add the fact that the only people who really seem to be pushing Pie/Elbirn = Team Scum (aside from RC) are my scumreads? Nah.

I've just finished reading her whole ISO. I see no scum here. If anyone wants to come up with a case against her, instead of just saying "lul Pie is scum" with ZERO fucking reasoning behind it, I will consider that case. I am willing to consider the possibility that I am wrong, I mean fuck I'm wrong all the time. But considering I've yet to hear a decent reason for her being scum, from anyone? Until that changes, there is absolutely no chance I'm voting her today.

You think this is ignoring Pie?
I get that this is prompted, but this defense is pretty elaborate and given odds of Elbirn inevitably flipping this cycle, I feel like this is too blatant of a defense for them both to be scum IMO.

Is being pretty OMGUSy by targeting me after I targeted him.

Let's say Elbirn is hypothetically town and is genuinely townreading Pie. Who else is he going to scumread in this game?

Avoided Fish for most of day one and two

Do you think scum knew who the traitor was?

[MonkeyMan576]

1. By ignoring pie I mean attacking her, not defending her.

2. Actual scum.

3. I think they probably figured it out one way or the other.

[Cheetory6]

2. Actual scum.

If he's town, would he not say the same about you?

By ignoring pie I mean attacking her, not defending her.

I don't really know if this is as smoking gun as people are making it out to be, but whatever. I don't think that they're both scum tbh.

3. I think they probably figured it out one way or the other.

What gives you that impression? Why do you think there was no kill last night?

[Boonskiies]

Hmm, actually you posting that Elbirn thing makes me think possibly Elbirn/eektor now, and maybe Elbirn's just epic white knighting pie? I don't know. I need to reread the thread and not be so tunnelly.

[Cheetory6]

Where are you RC.. :c
Where are you Acryon replacement.. :c :c

[pieguyn]

i already miss acryon :<

[pieguyn]

yo Cheetory

what do you think about my thoughts in 1536? fwiw, the second point there should actually be more compelling than it would be otherwise if you don't think Elbirn and I are partners, since the only way the Elbirn wagon could be town driven from an outside POV is if Elbirn/me is the scumteam.

[Boonskiies]

Elbirn case:
Avoided Fish for most of day one and two
Now is avoiding Pie.
Is being pretty OMGUSy by targeting me after I targeted him.

Him avoiding Fish isn't a scum tell at all. He didn't know Fish was his partner.

[pieguyn]

interesting.

Actually, I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS PUSHING FORMERFISH!!! Sure, he acknowledged me first by discrediting something I said by saying I wasn't posting much, and then I PUSHED HIM!!!

where were you going with this, then?

(also full disclosure, don't really get how this fits at all with what you've been thinking this entire time up to this point, but as it looks like you're reevaluating reads, meh. it's still a contradiction regardless.)

[Boonskiies]

How is it a contradiction? I thought FF had been targeting me and such, and I brought it up saying that the conversation we had doesn't seem like scum to scum at all, and then I realized I was the one who started the back and forth with FF, and someone used that as a reasoning to scum read me. I then realized I started it with FF meaning that "Formerfish started the back and forth with me because scum partner" is a moot point. I wasn't really going anywhere with it.

[pieguyn]

oh, I'm a derp and misread -.-

still doesn't change my mind about you being scum, but I'll drop this specific point. (fwiw, I thought you were using it to argue you were town as a result of FF interactions, which would be bullshit because you clearly just demonstrated that you know pushing FF wouldn't actually be a town tell for you.)

[Boonskiies]

yo Cheetory

what do you think about my thoughts in 1536? fwiw, the second point there should actually be more compelling than it would be otherwise if you don't think Elbirn and I are partners, since the only way the Elbirn wagon could be town driven from an outside POV is if Elbirn/me is the scumteam.

This isn't necessarily true. I know a lot of people who play scum and don't join any of the town wagons. That is definitely not the

only

way it could be town driven. The fact that we're at such a stalemate is making me feel that the scum might be split as well, but I'm going to try and start my reads from scratch again.

[pieguyn]

This isn't necessarily true. I know a lot of people who play scum and don't join any of the town wagons. That is definitely not the only way it could be town driven.

. . .

from an outside POV, if Elbirn and I aren't both scum,

there necessarily has to be at least 1 scum on the Elbirn wagon, since there isn't anyone else left.

this is what I'm saying here. do you disagree?

[Cheetory6]

See, the issue is that I haven't ruled out the idea of Pie/Boon scumteam.
If that was the case, the wagons still make sense because you can let Boon push Elbirn while stancing yourself opposite to him. Elbirn gets all the fire and if Boon flips then everyone thinks you and Elbirn are most likely town.
I don't really have any associative tells between the two of you, but it's the sort of situation that I would ideally want to be in at this point as scum and it makes me kind of wary. Your first point is compelling

@Pie

, but I don't trust you enough to want to sheep you on the second q.q

[Elbirn]

Elbirn's scumgame looks more familiar to this game than Boon's scumgame to this game. Zzzz.
I want an Elbirn case.

UNVOTE:

Elaborate on what makes you think Boon is town here? Convince me he's town and I'll eat rope.

And while I've got ya, I want to know how confident you are in Eektor being town. Cuz the only thing I like about the Eektor-town theory is the supposed "townslip" and I don't even know how reliable that is.

Elbirn case:
Avoided Fish for most of day one and two
Now is avoiding Pie.
Is being pretty OMGUSy by targeting me after I targeted him.

lol

1. If I were scum I wouldn't have known Fish was scum. A lot of people avoided Fish btw, he did a good job of avoiding attention.
2. If I'm avoiding Pie, putting a spotlight on the two of us is a helluva way to do it. But reading further down you say it's because I won't attack her. And why would I attack my townread?
3. You're cute. I'm pretty sure I was on your ass day 1. I'm pretty sure my reasons for going after you today were well explained. I'm pretty sure using buzzwords to discredit another player is scumtastic.

[Cheetory6]

My thoughts on Boonscum have been "he's a very dramatic person as town, so I'd expect his scum game to be equally dramatic" but his meta suggests otherwise.
Honestly, I was surprised to see how elaborate your scumgame was that you linked and part of why I've been so really convinced that the wagon on you might be bad is because your posts have oozed town motivation and it seems like your scumgame does a pretty decent job of faking that.

I'm honestly not that confident in eektor being town anymore. I didn't like that he didn't react to what I was saying q.q

[Elbirn]

So Boonscum is more reserved than Boontown? Do you think this is something that can easily be faked?
I want to read his games too, but I still feel wary of him linking his own meta, being so self aware. :/ I especially want to see how he acts when he's being pushed on, because in that one game I skimmed over at work, where he got lynched D1, he didn't seem to really give a shit. Like he was mad I guess, but he didn't flip out like he's doing here.

I'm surprised anyone thinks my scumgame was elaborate. I had no plan, I replaced in so I didn't even get to talk to my partner N0 and he died D1. I just played as pro-town as I could (short of outing myself/partner) and hoped for the best.

Hm. Do you see any differences in my behavior in this game and my scumgame? I was told in that game that I was "confident", but in a scummish way. Is there a difference here?

@MOD:

I think we need a prod for RC, but I'm not 100%, my sense of time is warped Also, status report on an Acryon replacement?

[Cheetory6]

I want to read his games too, but I still feel wary of him linking his own meta, being so self aware

This kind of stuff also makes me wary of you. Boon's not going to be able to 100% fake his town meta if he's scum and if you're town I don't understand why your kneejerk reaction is to say "I want to discount all of this meta stuff".

I didn't read super in-depth yesterday because I was super busy between school and watching crappy movies with friends, but I do know that the tone of the meta in both of these games would suggest you're more likely to be scum.

Either way, I'm not like die-hard convinced on anything yet.

[Elbirn]

I don't know that you CAN'T 100% fake your town meta. Call that inexperience but use of meta isn't something I've really learned yet. And I'm not discounting all of it, and I don't know why you're saying I am. I'm just taking it with a grain of salt. I don't like the way he asserts "I'll never do this as town", or "I'm doing this and this is a town tell for me", because if he knows that, then he can manufacture that as scum. And that just seems really, really obvious to me. :/ I'm open to a case for him being town, and I'm open to a meta analysis on him, but come on. Do ya see where I'm coming from on this at least?

[Boonskiies]

This isn't necessarily true. I know a lot of people who play scum and don't join any of the town wagons. That is definitely not the only way it could be town driven.

. . .

from an outside POV, if Elbirn and I aren't both scum,

there necessarily has to be at least 1 scum on the Elbirn wagon, since there isn't anyone else left.

this is what I'm saying here. do you disagree?

See, this is biased logic. From an outside perspective...you and Elbirn can very much so be both scum. If one of you are proven town, sure, I'll be able to look at that differently, but i've been saying this for a while.

[MonkeyMan576]

To me, the main thing is Elbirn and pie seem to be playing from a different perspective than the rest of the players. They are going against the group paradigm rather than trying to work with it.

[Elbirn]

This isn't necessarily true. I know a lot of people who play scum and don't join any of the town wagons. That is definitely not the only way it could be town driven.

. . .

from an outside POV, if Elbirn and I aren't both scum,

there necessarily has to be at least 1 scum on the Elbirn wagon, since there isn't anyone else left.

this is what I'm saying here. do you disagree?

See, this is biased logic. From an outside perspective...you and Elbirn can very much so be both scum. If one of you are proven town, sure, I'll be able to look at that differently, but i've been saying this for a while.

But she's responding to Cheetory, who just said that he believes that either one or none of us (Elbirn/Pie) are scum, but not both. She is saying that if he believes that, then there has to be at least 1 scum on my wagon by PoE.

To me, the main thing is Elbirn and pie seem to be playing from a different perspective than the rest of the players. They are going against the group paradigm rather than trying to work with it.

What even does this mean

We should sheep town...And walk into our own graves like town wants. Instead of thinking for ourselves and not dying. I....Huh?