Alright, so, first thing's first: Insomniac is a totally shitty role for mafia and they would never choose it in this setup. It tells you who targeted you in the night... Which doesn't do shit for mafia because they already know who has what role. So that's reason #1 why you should take your votes off me.
In post 34, Grib wrote:I'm mostly just posting so I can view the thread when I click "view your posts."
I also wanted to let you all know that I am town.
In post 44, Grib wrote: In post 41, farside22 wrote:I choose
Invictus
You think you may win scum but take me down and be sure I will bite back.
This is my favorite post so far.
In post 140, Grib wrote:Nothing Has Really Rappened Yet so I'm Just Posting to Post
, a story by Grib
In post 174, Grib wrote:God, I read this entire page and I want to respond to exactly zero of it.
Is there any way to use our roles in a sort of circle of protection, say A watches B who protects C who guards D who tracks E who blocks F and so on, to make it easier to catch the kill?
Soo, Grib starts out being hella boring and useless... I'm honestly not sure why. This is probably just how he plays early game, I'd guess. I can't really make any excuses for him here.
In post 214, Grib wrote: In post 209, Jingle wrote:I'm working on breaking strategies, I'll let you know if one exists. In the meantime, what's your read on Farside/Boo/Aronis? Why are you voting Pine? Who else is worth voting in your opinion?
Oh, so apparently I'm not invisible. Neat.
Town, scum, and null-ish. These are leans. A lot of Aronis' responses to the pressure on him are pretty clipped and I don't know how to feel about it.
Pine was RVS and I don't care enough to move my vote.
I approve of the Bookitty wagon.
This is interesting.. He approves of the Bookitty wagon, but keeps his vote on his RVS? That's... Awkward... Again it's early game so.. No real excuses. If I wasn't his replacement I'd think it was pretty scummy obviously :L
In post 237, Grib wrote:Hi anti. You really need to stop looking at me with scum-tinted lenses.
I'd contribute more if the current topic of discussion didn't bore me. But now you're here, and you're always fun. Yay.
Blah blah, more fluff... Basically he was too lazy to do anything helpful.
In post 305, Grib wrote: In post 296, farside22 wrote:Do you think aronis is scum? Did you think boo was using his role as a reason to lynch him or was it more about what he said this game?
I think the issue that grib has anti is silly. Looks to me anti may have done that to get a reaction to try and read grib better.
Not especially, but now I'm starting to agree that the whole him not posting thing is a possible Thing. Other than that I don't feel any particular way about him.
Boo's posts feel really self-motivated (fake edit: confirmed by her) and her push on Aronis feels like it's waaay more focused on his role than his actual gameplay. The problem I have is that Aronis is sort of justifying her a little bit in that he isn't especially towny
and
his role renders him basically invisible to town PRs. Her ISO posts (32-36) were bad (I can sort of get her misunderstanding my wording, but eh).
I like being silly with Anti.
In post 302, Bookitty wrote:I support the Grib wagon for reasons I've already given. I don't see a reason that he would keep his RVS vote on Pine while saying that he supports my wagon. It's like he doesn't want to be on my wagon himself but he'd like to see it progress a little further. Just not with HIM on it. But everyone else, Grib says it's okay. That seems pretty duplicitous to me. If you don't care enough to move your RVS vote, then your support is pretty meaningless.
"Reasons."
UNVOTE:
I'd maybe lynch Kitty, and I can also switch to Aronis later if necessary (unless he gets in here and towns it to the max), since he's likely going to be the deadline lynch. Unless I end up dead D1, which wouldn't be horrible considering my role is kind of useless and I can already tell this is going to be a weak towngame for me.
No one else sticks out to me.
Bookitty makes a good point here, I was curious as to why he wasn't voting her as well.
Let me make up for Grib's mistake, shall we?
VOTE: BooKitty
There we are, my vote is finally where Grib should've had it all along! Glad we remedied that quickly.
In post 343, Grib wrote:I'm sorry, everyone, but I won't be able to give this game the attention it deserves.
Mod, replace me please.
Annnd then he disappears. Looks like that's all the information I'm getting from my predecessor. Time to make a case:
BOOKITTY
Very active, with the most posts in the thread.
She chooses: The archivist. A very interesting choice in my opinion. It could be very, VERY helpful for town, and gives her motivation as both town and scum to choose it. WIFOM. So I will disregard her choice as NULL.
In post 60, Bookitty wrote:If someone really hates their role, I am willing to trade mine (Archivist) if that's allowed by the Mod. I'm not really all that picky.
Just let me know!
This is where it gets
actually
interesting: She wants to change her role! Not only that, but she's willing to trade with anybody!
So instead of looking at why someone would
want
the Archivist, I'm going to look at why someone would
not
want the Archivist.
If BooKitty == Scum:
Being Archivist means you can see who targetted who.. Useless as scum. Really. Absolutely useless. Unless you're trying to find the SK.. Which still isn't very useful at all.
If BooKitty == Town:
Being Archivist means you can see who targetted who... Awesome as town. Choose a previous night phase and a player = you get to see who they targetted! And if they targetted the person who died that night... Well, you can determine by their role whether or not they're scum.
If BooKitty == SK:
Being Archivist means you can see who targetted who, which is mediocre at best for SK. Other roles would suit SK much better.
To sum it up: The only reason I could see BooKitty not wanting to be Archivist is if they're SK or Scum.. Either way they need to be lynched. (If you're SK, feel free to claim and I'm sure town is willing to work with you to help us kill scum, kay?)
In post 87, Bookitty wrote:I don't really see the Marquis role-related suspicion right now.
Encryptor is of no use to town for sure. But it's very useful for scum and so there's this:
First-level: Scum would take Encryptor.
Second-level: Town would take Encryptor to keep it from scum.
Second-level: Scum might not want to take Encryptor to avoid being obvious.
It's all speculation and WIFOM. The fact that Marquis took Encryptor FIRST makes it less likely to be first-level for me. There are more helpful and less obvious choices to make when all of them are available.
Since all the power roles are out there, I think it's going to be really important to express reads openly when we have them (not that I have any definite reads yet). This can help power roles target more accurately imo without giving scum clearcut answers on who will be targeted by any particular role.
Still waiting for an answer from Aronis.
So, first she points out that voting people based solely on their role choice is WIFOM because town could choose it to use it, scum could choose it to prevent town, SK could choose it for both, etc etc.
In post 108, Bookitty wrote:Here is a list of the chosen roles in order. I was reminding myself about what Invictus and Insomniac do, so I went ahead and put it in order of choosing:
Marquis, the Encryptor
Aronis, the Ascetic
DeasVail, the Bulletproof
xRECKONERx, the One-Shot Cop
Pine, the Gentleman Thief
Bookitty, the Archivist
farside22, the Invictus
Jake from State Farm, the Roleblocker
Shiidaji, the Bodyguard
Grib, the Insomniac
Jingle, the Coroner
Antihero, the Universal Backup
Flubbernugget, the Vengeful Vanilliser
I don't think people at the bottom of this list can really be judged based solely on the role they chose. Just my opinion, though.
@Aronis: Why do you think an ascetic is especially powerful in scum hands and should be kept out of them? I have a few ideas on this and want to understand your thought process when switching from roleblocker to ascetic. The reasons you gave seem odd to me.
Then, she says that
only
the people near the bottom of the list can't be judged for their role choice.
There's some inconsistency there, guys.
In post 112, Bookitty wrote:
Roleblocker is a role I think scum would want to avoid in this game, though. Roleblocks that don't correspond with town interests (for instance, roleblocks on investigative roles) would be pretty obvious and would lead to suspicion and possible lynch. Because all the roles are out in the open, it's going to be much harder for scum to hide and still play effectively to their win condition.
This makes sense to me: Whoever the roleblocker is gets a slight townread from me.
In post 148, Bookitty wrote: In post 126, farside22 wrote:Who here has played with aronis?
*Looks at reck*
Pretty sure you have.
Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:
Sorry about inactivity today; I fell asleep
@Farside: Does Aronis typically act this way regardless of alignment?
I haven't played with him before that I remember. My objection to him (apart from role related things, most notably the stutter-step about roleblocker vs. ascetic) is attitude. He's doling out information very sparingly and he seems really antagonistic in response to questions.
I asked him if he was confident in his ability to play power roles because that would have been an answer as to why one would pick ascetic over roleblocker. I'm not terribly confident myself but I'm planning on asking who I should target and then picking semi-randomly from the responses given. It's not like I need to hide in this game.
I think if you pick a role that can't be read you ought to be willing to eat the lynch because it's going to be necessary unless you town it up incredibly and basically prove yourself through other means. Aronis hasn't done that. He's done the opposite of that. You're saying he's abrasive, I think -- if he knows that, then it's on him to either choose a different role or to demonstrate he's town through play.
If this is his playstyle, we're going to have to lynch him at some point anyway for being unreadable and/or scummy. Why shouldn't it be today?
Pushing for a D1 scum/policy lynch... Seems to be making up reasons to get a lynch, regardless of if the person is just a bad town or actual scum. I'll answer your last question: It shouldn't be today because we could lynch
scum
and be way better off!
Your case on him is attitude. Attitude is a good reason for lynch if they're out of hand and being anti-town.. I'm not seeing that here.
The fact that he considered roleblocker and then changed to something else is the only thing suspicious about Aronis to me. I can imagine the thought process: "Ooh I can block town roles! *post* OH WAIT SHIT BUT THEY KNOW WHO THE ROLEBLOCKER IS! CHANGE! *post2*"
That is a reasonable D1 case. I feel more strongly about you being scum than I do him, though. More importantly, notice how you ask the question: "Why shouldn't it be today?"... But your vote isn't on him! I don't see you putting your vote where your mouth is at all. I see no reason why you wouldn't vote him at this point if you're already asking for his lynch. Town pressures to get information... You haven't even voted up to this point.
No vote + "Why shouldn't we lynch him now?!" = A few possibilities: You're scum buddies bussing, or you're scum / SK hiding under the radar. I don't like either of those.
In post 150, Bookitty wrote:I don't think you've been antagonistic to me.
Post 124 is pretty antagonistic, and your tone with Marquis wasn't making me think of puppies and kittens either.
You've consistently given short answers and minimal information. The most recent example is when I asked you about your confidence in playing power roles. "Just depends." That's the attitude I mean, most specifically -- the shortest answer that gives the least information. I was trying to figure out your alignment, but your ISO is giving ZERO help in that.
Every reason you give for wanting to keep ascetic out of scum hands is a reason scum might want it. Choosing ascetic in the first place gives your slot an expiration date. I wouldn't think you'd be surprised that people want to lynch you since they can't investigate you. You're giving them nothing to read you with either.
This is where you start chasing your tail.
"I'm voting you for being ascetic because it's awesome for scum and town would want to keep it from scum- AKA I'm following the WIFOM I pointed out earlier!"
Scroll up a bit. See where she said "Town picks to keep it from scum" vs "scum wants it" is WIFOM? And now that's the case she's making against him? (Leaving out the part about being antagonistic because that isn't a scum tell.)
In post 185, Bookitty wrote:@Farside: It is a role he chose. It is not a randomly assigned role. It's a role he chose EARLY.
My questions to Aronis are two-pronged, not just one as you're trying to imply.
His CHOICE of role is such that he should expect to come under suspicion for it, especially given his own stated reasoning behind choosing it. Choosing ascetic precludes any investigation to clear himself. It's a role that can't be allowed to go to LYLO. I think anyone with any experience with ascetic would know that it would be a role with an expiration date.
The part you're ignoring or dismissing is that he's not being helpful to town. He's not. You don't even have him as a townread. You said you don't have experience of his scum game. Yet you're making the meta defence to end all meta defences on his behalf, in essence saying that he always plays like that. You don't KNOW that. If he DOES play like that all the time, though, he's unhelpful to town. His role is not helpful to town. He's doing nothing to help himself and you're doing all the heavy lifting. I would expect this level of defence if he was your mason buddy; we know he's not, though. You don't even think he's town.
I don't see scum-Farside making this defence for scum-Aronis, though. It's more likely to me that scum-Farside would make this concerted defence of town-Aronis or possible SK-Aronis to try to drum up some towncred.
I know you think that asking questions without a real reason is scummy. So you should know I'd spot that right away.
VOTE: Farside
Finally, a vote! However.. Not on the person you were hardpushing at first? Instead, you're voting someone for defending him, but state explicitly: "I don't see scum-Farside making this defence for scum-Aronis, though."
Does this mean you no longer thing Aronis is scummy? Are you saying a meta defense of which you have no meta on Aronis is Farside trying to get town-cred?
Personally, if I were seriously interested in this line of thinking, I would go meta the games with Aronis and Farside together and see if his information holds true... If it does, then it isn't scummy in the least.
In post 198, Bookitty wrote:I have no meta on Aronis, Farside. I don't think I have ever played with him at all. I haven't researched it either.
Well no shit. Before arguing on the topic of meta about a player, make sure you have meta of that player:
Otherwise I consider your opinion on his meta and the meta defense invalid.
In post 203, Bookitty wrote:Wow, are you actually reading the game, Farside? That's a mighty big post to have missed first time around, lady.
Woah woah woah! Hang on a second, I feel like you were just making a case against someone for being antagonistic. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. I will agree Farside is acting pretty scummy to your small prodding questions, but not as scummy as you are.
That was a quick change of tone.. This is two posts from the last I quoted, yes? I feel like this is scummy for some reason.. Bus harder please.
In post 250, Bookitty wrote:
I highly doubt that you do that all the time.
I know for a fact that you do that all the time.
Do you think these two sentences mean the same thing?
I think they are opposites.
To me, you look like scum caught for the wrong reasons, but I'm biased because I thought you were scummy before.
Why didn't you join my one-person wagon when you approved of it? Why bother to approve of it if it's not even worth moving an RVS vote?
Blah blah blah, argues about grammar-
Oh good, something interesting at the end of that post there. A good question! If I were as silly as him, I would answer this! Sadly, I have literally no idea what he was thinking.
In post 256, Bookitty wrote:
Dude, I never voted for Aronis. I was trying to get a read out of him.
Oh god. Not this. Even I've used this defense as scum when I realize my case was absolute shit. "U-uh, I was pressuring for a read..!!"
Okay then, 'dude', if you say so.
In post 290, Bookitty wrote:Let me know if you want an explanation for why I started townreading Farside, Flubber. I don't really want to interfere with whatever you're doing with Anti, though.
Why just Flubber? I want an explanation badly.
In post 302, Bookitty wrote:I'm okay with an Aronis lynch at this point because I did everything I could think of to get him to post content and help town, including pressuring him heavily and then leaving him alone as per his request. I'm not sure he's scum. I just know that he's unhelpful and unreadable and that he can't be cleared through investigation, so we're going to have to lynch him sooner or later anyway. That doesn't have to be today though.
I support the Grib wagon for reasons I've already given. I don't see a reason that he would keep his RVS vote on Pine while saying that he supports my wagon. It's like he doesn't want to be on my wagon himself but he'd like to see it progress a little further. Just not with HIM on it. But everyone else, Grib says it's okay. That seems pretty duplicitous to me. If you don't care enough to move your RVS vote, then your support is pretty meaningless.
VOTE: Grib
I have a moderate townread on Farside. Waiting to hear more from Pine.
So before you wanted him lynched, then you were just pressuring for a read, and now you're wanting that lynch again. You're not sure he's scum, but are willing to lynch him
D1 even though you think there are people who might actually be scum?
I agree with your vote on Grib (me), as that was a pretty scummy move. I literally can't defend it.. I would if I could, but it looks just as scummy to me as it does to you. Damn you, Grib. Damn you.
Get back to me on that townread on Farside, would you? Thanks.
In post 304, Bookitty wrote:Okay. I have a selfish reason for wanting to lynch Aronis. I can't investigate him. All my other scumreads (and I'm playing most of those fairly close to the vest for a reason) I have a shot at catching. Not him.
I don't want the day to end yet because I need a lot more interaction with people. Voting Aronis now makes it less likely I choose right tonight.
I'm also considering having everyone who is willing to do so tell me three names they think are the most likely scum and working from that list. In that case, I'll happily lynch Aronis whenever.
What do you think of Grib, Farside?
You admit to having a selfish reason to lynch Aronis... That is, a reason besides helping town win. Does nobody realize how ridiculously scummy this is? Am I the only one who thinks having a selfish reason for pushing a lynch is hella scummy?
"I'm fully willing to lynch Aronis whenever, but let's push a different wagon even though I don't want the day to end yet!"
I.. I'm not even going to comment on this. This makes no sense.
I've noticed you aren't asking any interesting questions anymore; Just asking the guy you were trying to get lynched earlier what he thinks of Grib. What happened to your actual information seeking?
In post 307, Bookitty wrote: In post 306, Marquis wrote:we should commit to the aronis lynch sooner rather than later
I'm not moving
Who are your top three scumreads, please?
Same question for everyone. If you're set to lynch Aronis sooner rather than later, then I need your help.
My top three scumreads, in order of importance:
You
You
and... You
In post 326, Bookitty wrote: In post 323, DeasVail wrote:
1. Bookitty, can you talk me through the thought process leading to your unvote of Farside?
2. I also worry that while you are considering the 'why would town act like this?' question when it comes to Aronis, you're not considering the 'why would scum act like this?' one.
1. I was suspicious of Farside because she was throwing out suspicion on me without ever engaging me. Same with Pine. She showed no curiosity regarding the reasoning nor alignment of the people she was suspecting. She defended Aronis pretty fiercely without having a townread on him. It all wasn't adding up, plus I would think Farside would know why I was pushing the top wagon without calling for more votes on him nor voting him myself. (Hint: I wanted to figure out his alignment for myself for my own role-related reasons and not just go with the flow and lynch the first viable target. I also wanted to get reactions from other people to develop reads there.) She knows my role; everyone does. She wasn't working to get a better read on Aronis herself. She was just attacking my questioning.
The posts just above the one that I unvoted in was the first one that showed me any sign of the
curious
and intelligent scumhunter that I expect from Farside. I unvoted her because of that. In my experience, if you don't at all recognise the playstyle of a person you have pretty extensive personal meta with, it's because they are hiding a power role or they are scum. It couldn't be the first in this game. She's now back to a similar approach in defending Grib. I don't know just what to make of that.
You seem to be having some trouble. You seem to be wavering the shit on your read of Farside. I "don't know just what to make of that", either.
Ehh.. I could do more but I think that's a long enough wall for now. Reads and thoughts of other players coming when it's not 2:30 AM and I'm not exhausted. <3