New York 181 -- Game Over

[SilverWolf]

Silver - I don't know. The entire ISO looks pretty damn town with the exception of the illogical freakout and leap in logic at me considering there was a scum possibility in one of his actions and trying to determine whether it was or not. But when I say EVERYTHING else looks town, I mean everything. So I'm kind of conflicted. Weak town, I guess?

No where can you look at what I said and justify the words freakout. This is why I am still wary of you. Because you are twisting what I am trying to do into something it isn't. I never freaked out. That's just blatantly false. I am scumhunting you and for now, I feel like you are not being honest about what I'm trying to do and I don't like it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I am scumhunting you and for now, I feel like you are not being honest about what I'm trying to do and I don't like it.

Yes, exactly. I feel the same.

[T S O]

If she flips scum, are you willing to be quicklynched afterwards?

lining up lynches are we?

No.

You're vouching for someone pretty strongly by saying you will aggro the thread if they get pressure - you need to be confident in someone if you're going to unanimously back them so early. You've shown you don't have that kind of belief in her, so I'm not really going to take that threat seriously anymore.

TSO, your post about facades seemed to be reaction fishing. But then you mention not wanting pressure as either alignment and that feels genuine to me. So the two posts don't really go together. What were you trying to accomplish with the first post? You had to know it would draw criticism.

Yeah, I was trying to get discussion going on something solid - I'm able to defend myself enough to not have to particularly worry about potential pressure brought, and kickstarting the game certainly outweighed the pressure aspect of it for me.

[Shiro]

@Elusive

Well, what have you gathered from the quiz and the reactions of the people to it so far ? Other than Nik is scum.

[davesaz]

Dave - Interesting ISO. I see a decent amount of posts full of questions and statements. However, very little of it has anything to do with any reads Dave might have. It's all about playstyle changes, Elusive's questions, and looking for clarification on things. Dave also hasn't changed his vote since a wishy washy maybe this is scum type vote in post 49. A large I was in with Dave just ended (granted I died in October) and I was scum reading TownDave there, but a quick glance at his ISO in that game shows solid stances with use of the words "town" and "scum" even in the early game. Dave just entered my radar as possible scum.

That game went a lot faster and had a lot more content per post than this one. My vote is still RVS. But it is a correct observation that I haven't had a lot of concrete reads yet. A better comparison would be the 2nd Friends & Enemies game (see my wiki page).

[davesaz]

for anyone whos talking about elusive:

i know her from another site, her meta as town is litarly a textbook of ask question and tunnel who doesnt answer

she cant hold up the same charisma of posting as scum. if she has suddenly gotten 10 time better in like 2 month that i will be fucking amazed. but seriously if you try to lyncher im aggroing thread.

I'm reading this as scum ika WK'ing town elusive. In the absence of scum hunting from ika, it's enough to go on for now.

VOTE: ika

I'm also looking at Flubber for scum, per my previous post on him vs. House.

Town reading elusive, SilverWolf, House, Egg. Leaning town Aneninen, Shiro, Wake. Bunch of inactives to sort once they start posting. Some moderately active that I haven't gotten a vibe from and would leave as null for now. It's all pretty nebulous given the game state.

[House]

House- He's gonna be a tough one for me. I had him as obvtown in my game with him where he was town. His scum game with me was one where it's hard to use because of certain events. Honestly, I don't see the TownHouse I saw in Fire and Ice. But nothing looks overly scummy. Hell, nothing looked overly scummy in his scum game until he softed a role that wasn't in the game to get the cop lynched, claimed he was town fakeclaiming, and showed dumbtown meta to back it. I dunno. I'm going maybe a step below null with my only reason for a scum read probably being paranoia.

In all fairness, I should have been turbolynched D2 in that game. Town really dropped the ball there, and I was scrambling around to maximize on it.

[House]

Dave - Interesting ISO. I see a decent amount of posts full of questions and statements. However, very little of it has anything to do with any reads Dave might have. It's all about playstyle changes, Elusive's questions, and looking for clarification on things. Dave also hasn't changed his vote since a wishy washy maybe this is scum type vote in post 49. A large I was in with Dave just ended (granted I died in October) and I was scum reading TownDave there, but a quick glance at his ISO in that game shows solid stances with use of the words "town" and "scum" even in the early game. Dave just entered my radar as possible scum.

You waffle a great deal over a number of players that you state misreading/having difficulty reading, yet you admit to misreading Dave in the past yet you want him lynched.

What's the difference between your read on Dave and your reads on me, Wake, ABR, etc?

This is only one problem I have with your reads wall. It's not typical Egg-quality analysis and I don't like it.

[Nobody Special]

artistincompre has requested replacement.

Searching now.

[Nobody Special]

freeko replaces artistincompre effective immediately.

[freeko]

I am here. Just need to do a little catching up and then I will try to post some thoughts within the next few days.

[Aneninen]

Vote Elusive

I feel like she's putting no time into real scumhunting and taking the quiz thing too seriously. Like you can't honestly believe it's as simple as town answers andscum doesn't. You're faking reads and town doesn't do that.

I don't think it's a scumtell, no scums would try to get town credits by doing a test like that and by analyzing the answers given.

Basically the main take-away is that I'm one of the best Mafia players to have ever lived. I'm full-on town, by the way, and I say that with 100% certainty. I'm so confident that I'm going to town-claim right now. With that being said, I am almost certain that SilverWolf is scum. This is just based on my gut reaction here. But the day is young so let's see how it goes.
~ DW

Ugh,

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

I think I've played a game with Nikonor in the distant past but that's about it. I don't really know anyone here well enough to say.
Wake88, do you post on any other forums? Your username is familiar

My real username is

Wake

, and I have frequented other forums at my leisure.
But enough about me. I'd like to know more about you. I'm going to want to dredge out information from you, so that I may better understand who exactly you are here.
You voted for Silverwolf in 195, but you provided nothing of value as to

why

you did so. With reason or feeling... an ability to articulate them... you will be convincing no one. Using 'gut reaction' as an excuse is not good enough. Feelings in these games matter, but you must be able to at least try to explain them, or express the nature and level of those feelings. For example, I feel you're being brash and arrogant, and is a front for your naivete and sheer inexperience in Mafia. I am not impressed one bit but, if you're willing to learn, I'm willing to speak

with

you about how to better play Mafia in general.
If your faulty certainty isn't an act, I suggest you stop doing that immediately, and start playing more cautiously and wisely. Should you be Town, making stupid, rash judgments is nothing but a boon for the Scum. Show prudence. Be shrewd.
How long have you been playing? I may be able to point you in the right direction, so that, if you are interested, you can play better in the future.

Did you ever post on a website called PersonalityCafe?

Instead of responding anything useful, Deltawave starts fluffing.

[Aneninen]

hello are you guys just going to ignore my post on nik?

No and I think he's scummy, so give examples about him playing a game of survival, please!

People who are lurking/saying nothing of value, dodging questions or giving bad answers.
-texcat
-deltawave
-ABR
-artistincompre
Note to self that there's probably scum in this group.

I'd add Dragonspawn too.

Other things about the 300-ish posts: Wake is probably town, Gammrnmhrm is probably town and the Elusive wagon is a hysteria.

[Garmr]

Wow my spelling and grammar suck donkey dick at 3 am in the morning. Having a coffee while I read.

[SilverWolf]

Egg townreading Deltawave is off. What has Deltawave done to deserve a townread? Even a bad townread? He comes in here, calls me scum, naked votes me, answers no ones questions, doesn't follow up, fluff posts, and leaves. Egg townreads him for that. In addition to what House has said about him who is someone who is has played with him and knows him, and everything I have said about him, I really think Egg is scum here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Egg townreading Deltawave is off. What has Deltawave done to deserve a townread?

I'm wondering that myself.

In addition to what House has said about him who is someone who is has played with him and knows him, and everything I have said about him, I really think Egg is scum here.

It's still early, but the reasoning is logical.

[freeko]

10 pages down, and so far posts #155, #200, and #226 are what stuck out to me so far. Not knowing a thing about the people I am playing against, I can only go on what I see. This is a good thing.

Post #155, House basically says anything to do with him is stupid. This is a deflection tactic that scum who do not want attention drawn toward them generally use. Noted for future use.

Post #200, Aneninen says some nonsense about not wanting to be in a wagon with specific people. IF a wagon on a scum, why would it matter who you were with? Deflection from a mafia partner possibly? Town should always be voting scum, and if you are all town why is this a bad thing? Again noted for future use.

Post #226, ika makes a post that just generally sickens me. What does this even mean? You know that X is town because of things not even related to this particular game? What if you were both mafia? Lets metagame so that we can avoid detection? If I saw that when it happened and did not have another 7 pages to catch up on, I probably would have voted ika on general principle.

Being I was deprived of a random voting stage I think I will hold off on that until I finish reading the rest of the thread.

[DeltaWave]

Egg townreading Deltawave is off. What has Deltawave done to deserve a townread? Even a bad townread? He comes in here, calls me scum, naked votes me, answers no ones questions, doesn't follow up, fluff posts, and leaves. Egg townreads him for that. In addition to what House has said about him who is someone who is has played with him and knows him, and everything I have said about him, I really think Egg is scum here.

House is full of shit if he's saying that he's played with me. The last time I played a game of Mafia was in April 2014. House didn't sign up until September 2014. Therefore we could not have been in a game together. Check my post history if you don't believe me.

In any event, I don't find it surprising that Egg has a town-read on me. I'm like the Shaggy of Mafia; you may not understand what I'm saying, but you know it's fly as hell.

[SilverWolf]

Egg townreading Deltawave is off. What has Deltawave done to deserve a townread? Even a bad townread? He comes in here, calls me scum, naked votes me, answers no ones questions, doesn't follow up, fluff posts, and leaves. Egg townreads him for that. In addition to what House has said about him who is someone who has played with him and knows him, and everything I have said about him, I really think Egg is scum here.

House is full of shit if he's saying that he's played with me. The last time I played a game of Mafia was in April 2014. House didn't sign up until September 2014. Therefore we could not have been in a game together. Check my post history if you don't believe me.

Nope, I was talking about Egg and how House has played with him in two other games and didn't like his reads.

[DeltaWave]

Nevermind then.

Explain why you are not scum.

[SilverWolf]

Nevermind then.

Explain why you are not scum.

No, You explain why I am.

[DeltaWave]

no backsies

[Nikanor]

a) whatever you say bub
b) ok so let's take a step back here. please explain why you find my reasoning hypocritical and reaching. and also explain why i should have to push a wagon based on one post on page two. i'm sure i could look through your past games and find a similar situation where someone has made a serious vote early without explaining what it was about until asked. have you attacked everyone who has done this? if not, what's different about this game, or what's different about the way i did it.
c) again, the intent was to bitch about having too many conflicting scumreads, not to provide scumreads.
d) i generally have to wait until my scumreads make a post that i can reapond to with buzzwords, otherwise people just brush me off. vOv

A.Others had said this to toots

B. Your basically saying I was reaching for a reason when you yourself had to reach for a reason after being pushed to explain yourself. The fact you actually felt a need to shows you want acceptance It was also obvious you took time to think of the reason after the vote not before by your post in between the vote and the reason. It's all the small things that add up to one scummy post You haven't really invalidated any of my reason. Also I don't think I have reacted the same way as town scrambling to find a reason after be asked why.

C. You were still posting game relevant information your point which included your scum reads so what if you were bitching? Also that a strawman argument as you taken this way far away from the original topic.

D.Why was it different then when you were pushed by dragonspawn. Why didn't you wait for one of these buzz words.

a) the majority is typically incorrect bby
b) i) how was it reaching, i said your point was bs because wakescum would not specifically want a 2v3v2 wagon instead of a 3v3 wagon. ii) the fact that i felt a need to answer the guy shows that i'm not a complete asshole. iii) it was obvious i took the time to think about it when i said "if i had to put it into words". iv) "scrambling" lool v) you never showed me my supposed hypocrisy, pls amend.
c) it's not a strawman, i've said before that the reason i didn't mention the minimal possibility that i might be correct on one of my two dichotomies was because i wanted to sound like a puny little girl and considering that possibility would have been contradictory to my goal. ik you're just going to keep arguing that since i wasn't explicit it doesn't count tho.
d) i had

H

O

P

E

that this game might be different but guess what, the next two posts after mine included the usual brushoff so i guess that's just normal old hopeless life for you.

[Egg]

I played with you when you were scum in AP bros, remember? I caught you.

Point?

Silver, can you show me a town game where Elusive did the question thing and nothing else for 17 pags? Can you show me a scum game where she didn't? And can you convince me that she is unaware of this meta? If you can do those things, I'll unvote.

Also, you calling Wake's post that I voted based on "non scummy" doesn't make it any less scummy than the one that you voted on. I feel that your reasons for voting him were wrong because weird doesn't always mean scum. The post of mine that you have an issue with was me trying to determine why you, in my opinion wrongfully called it scummy. I actually ended up deciding it was an honest mistake. So you saying that I misrepped you just feels weird to me. And even if you say otherwise, it feels like a freakout to me. Like I try to determine your motivations behind an action and before I've even decided on them, you say I'm misrepping you and you vote me. It feels panicky to me.

TSO, so were you not being genuine when you said you don't want pressure early on? Do you generally read people better when they vote you?

Lol at dave taking stances right after I say he isn't taking stances.

In all fairness, I should have been turbolynched D2 in that game.

I know. I'll probably always be at least a little bitter about that one.

But yeah. The difference between you and dave is my experience with you guys. I feel like I've seen more of you and you're actually harder for me to read (although I was wrong about dave last game so maybe not...). I dunno. It's definitely a meta thing but I'm not sure how to explain it real well outside of that. Not sure what you are asking about Wake and ABR. As for the analysis itself, three things. You've never seen me in a large. I was in a library that limits your time online. I didn't go post by post and into detail like I normally have lately. Also remember I was scum in one of our two games.

Anen, Elusive didn't really analyze anything though.

Silver, do you think Delta stepping on toes and stuff isn't intentional? Tell me why he'd do it as scum. It's bad play regardless but he put effort into the game where he was scum.

[Nikanor]

egg, how many of garmr's posts have you read, and which ones do you think are townish?