New York 181 -- Game Over

[House]

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

What reason other than not seeing how town SW was is there? DId I miss anything?

Do you really agree there is enough stuff to make KC look like scum over other people?

Of course there is. Inciting unrest is scum as shit, and all this drama has scum motivation all over it.

How she become the center of attention while she could have dropped it and diffused the situation and suspicions.

You forger that you instigated this house

I forgot nothing, because I didn't instigate shit. I was not sitting at KlingonCelt's keyboard or whispering in her ear when she exploded her shit all over this thread. The only thing I "instigated" was her opinion when I asked what she thought of SilverWolf being scum.

That's not instigation, it's inquisition. Your misrep is shit as well, and I wouldn't be suprised if you were her scumbuddy.

[Shiro]

Say what you want but you did instigate this. SW was arguing with you first telling you to sto treating her like that then you backed off and Kc prolonged it.

How exactly am I misrepresenting anything?

In anycase tell me then what are the reasons she is scum other than the drama caused? Because honestly that isn't much of a reason.

[Aneninen]

As for Davesaz's 800-ish posts, eg. 815, 816, he's much more cautious than he was in two other games as town.

Do you know how old Wolf is???

She is REDACTED.

Unvote, Silverwolf

Okay, let's see where this goes.

Klingonette's question was really low, ABR's answer was scummy. He was riding the hysteria, increased the tension while he, himself stayed calm.

[freeko]

I think that whole exchange last night derailed the thread. Dragging it along further is just not productive in any way shape or form.

I am ready to move on from that sideshow completely, but I have the clarity of not knowing and by extension not caring about any other mitigating factors outside of this game that occured. None of that has any relevance to this game.

At this point I am seriously considering joining this bandwagon, as it would remove a tremendous elephant from the room. However I still want to find scum, and currently I think the flipping of ABR as mafia tells me more than the chaos that would still ensue from a lynch of klingoncelt. This is somewhat odd, as I have previously made a case against klingoncelt. I plan on following through with it, but would prefer to use actual game mechanics instead of a grudge/policy lynch to justify it.

[davesaz]

As for Davesaz's 800-ish posts, eg. 815, 816, he's much more cautious than he was in two other games as town.

815 was an answer to a direct question? Any particular reason you're choosing this pair of posts?

[Aneninen]

I think the best thing SW can do right now is play to her strengths.
Minimize your weaknesses.
You're active as hell and honest, and you make no bones about getting into discussion and have been building up a health resistance to buddying.
You need to have more confidence in yourself. I know you're good at this game, and can take it even further.

^^

Dat, Silverwolf, if you're still reading this game!

REPLACE OUT

She routinely replaces out when someone votes for her. True story. I'm telling you, she goes batshit when she's suspected by anyone.

That's pigeon poop, Klingonette: I played with her in a Newbie and I was scumreading her for a long time – I was town, she was town-PR.

Frankly, I don't care who other suspects are at this point.
KlingonCelt has not crossed a line, she erased & bounded over it.
She needs to go for the sake of the game.

This isn't like you. For fuck's sake, don't tell me you're scum too.

Either Klingonette is very, very bad townie – and her early gameplay as town is

entirely different

, according to my direct meta –, or she's scum.

[davesaz]

Well perhaps some people should stop looking bad if they want me to stop asking them questions that make them look bad.

There is a big difference between someone already looking bad and asking neutral questions to clarify that, vs. deliberately phrasing questions to make them look bad. Do you always do it this way as scum?

I ask questions regardless of alignment.

I don't think you quite got the point. I wasn't asking about whether you "ask questions" as scum.

Let's ask this another way. What's your town motivation behind phrasing questions in a way that the question makes the target look bad?

[davesaz]

Where did I mention trying to figure out who the SK is? I did mention characteristics of SK, which are necessary to hunting one. And town should not rely on Mafia to do it -- hunting SK

is

something that town needs to do. It's just not any higher priority than finding scum in general.

How do you get under the radar? That's crazy talk.

Post 592.

And you are under the radar because few are paying attention to you

The term under the radar means taking positions which are intended to avoid attention.
I agree that few are paying attention, but you're (at best) misinterpreting what is going on.
It's certainly not from lack of effort on my part...

And tso didnt look good complaining about nothing productive occurring while doing nothing.

And I have played a game with egg. He played differently than this. Turned out to be town. I asked for more information as any person concerned about an accurate read would.

Sections of post replied to separately for effect...

Do you think TSO looks scummy for doing that? If you do, why doesn't he appear in your scum list? And if you don't then why bring it up?

Can you say something a little more specific on how Egg is different from the previous game? Plus, you say Egg is different from the other game where he was town, but in your reads list you have him as ... town?

I was asked for the top three. Tso is suspicious but I haven't gotten a full read high enough yet.

And I bring it up to make points.

Does it bother you that I find you suspicious?

Egg already said that game was pretty bad for him. I'd have to go back and find the game for speciifics. Right now I find Him null. But he is playing much more town than he was that game.

Fair enough re: TSO and bringing up points.

No, it doesn't bother me.

I'm still seeing a logic error in what you're saying about Egg. He was town in the other game, and said the other game was bad for him. You find him null, but much more town than the other game. I guess that I could accept this as saying he was really scummy in the other game, but the way you're explaining it seems a bit forced. Almost like you want to find a reason to explicitly list Egg as null that doesn't sound like he should be town.

[Aneninen]

Okay.
Policy lynching me is not fair. I did not lash out because there were a couple of votes on me, that was someone else.
Punish the player that started the shit, not the one that finished it.
Further, I am 99.99% sure that wolf/her slot is Scum/SK. Why should I not be allowed to vote for her/it/them/him?

Most of us are to lynch you because we think you're scum, not because of your posting style, which is indeed both unusual from you and terrible.

At this point I am seriously considering joining this bandwagon, as it would remove a tremendous elephant from the room. However I still want to find scum, and

currently I think the flipping of ABR as mafia tells me more than the chaos that would still ensue from a lynch of klingoncelt.

This is somewhat odd, as I have previously made a case against klingoncelt. I plan on following through with it, but would prefer to use actual game mechanics instead of a grudge/policy lynch to justify it.

Despite my scumread on Klingonette, I'm thinking about the same thing, see my 927!

As for Davesaz's 800-ish posts, eg. 815, 816, he's much more cautious than he was in two other games as town.

815 was an answer to a direct question? Any particular reason you're choosing this pair of posts?

No, those were mere examples and I'm simply unsure about you... after all both in C9++ and JK9 you were town but I was scum.

[Flubbernugget]

Why flubber is scum


His posted a lot of nothing. This is a normal flubber trait but it's this post were I start to develop my read.

Is anybody following nik vs. garmr right now because I really can't right now.

I also want to note that I stalled a discussion that almost got me pegged as scum once by responding to each line of someone's post by numbering/outlining it. If you're attacking the lines of a post you're probably not actually attacking the post itself.

Also he was acting like nik was town before then he posts this bit what's up with that.

He seems to be trying to draw focus on me and nik but he isn't taking a stance on any

no shit I wanted attention to that I was struggling to understand it.

fwiw nik actually gave a (biased) summary while you're just scumreading me for not parsing a wallwar.

Is anybody following nik vs. garmr right now because I really can't right now.

Nice "information" but do you draw any conclusions from it? If not, why mention it?

To see if anyone can relate to the struggle I'm having with it and bring out my opinion that the format of the discussion is anti-town.

I skimmed a double ISO, did not stop to take notes. I find it odd that a high percentage of Garmr posts are either about Nik or replies to him. The percentage is lower for Nik posts about/to Garmr. It's also interesting that the context of a lot of the discussion is a 3rd party. I don't think it generated much in the way of solid reads, or advanced game state much. It puts both of them on the scum side of null.

What do you think about the motivation for the conversation? Setting aside the content which is difficult to follow, does one or both look scummy on motivation?

Because I've used to same tactic as scum to stall a case on me, I'm personally biased to say that's what's happening here but have no actual context to apply that assumption to.

Nothing pings me as scum on garmr and the best read I have on nikanor right now is "would wagon."

This implies he finds nik null now but before she was town.

Awesome so my read changed. I'm scum because??

Nikanor can be town for his observation on wake even though I disagree with it being scummy. From my experience wake's posts are just fluffy and I do admit to not always reading the longer ones

It's a weird interaction and I'm assuming his preparing for a bus in the future if he has to.

Nononono you don't just say weird and call it a day why is it weird?

[davesaz]

I suggest we set our current scumreads on the more active players aside momentarily and poke some of the folks who seem to be kind of skating by on the bare minimum. I'd hate to tunnel in on not-really-slips by engaged townies and let the scum team quietly advance without committing anything to the game.

@ABR - Apart from past games (which have no direct impact on alignment this game), do you have any reason to be against Klingon or Dragon wagons? Things that happened in prior games aren't really strong reasons to decide anything in this game. If you have some thoughts contrary to the way some of us have read them (particularly Klingoncelt as far as I'm concerned), I'd love to read them.

@Shiro - You seem to be kind of dropping in very carefully. I remember your images more than your posts, and I suspect if not for the images, I wouldn't really remember much of any presence at all from you.

I'm thinking Drixx is most likely town. Need more content to firm it up though.

[elusive]

This site has too many rules about ongoing games but people can do research and figure it out. Klingon not the lynch for today. If people could not use policy lynch as a term, a game I've finished recently offsite had too much policy lynching by scum getting rid of town and I'm sick of that term being abused. Have a problem with a player, PM the mod and don't be a whiny squirrel.

VOTE: FreekoVOTE:

Your thoughts on all players in the game so far, and scumspects other than ABR. Also, bandwagons are a tricky thing and super scummy.

If.you and Egg etc want ABR lynched, make it happen.

[davesaz]

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

What reason other than not seeing how town SW was is there? DId I miss anything?

Do you really agree there is enough stuff to make KC look like scum over other people?

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

What reason other than not seeing how town SW was is there? DId I miss anything?

Do you really agree there is enough stuff to make KC look like scum over other people?

Of course there is. Inciting unrest is scum as shit, and all this drama has scum motivation all over it.

How she become the center of attention while she could have dropped it and diffused the situation and suspicions.

You forger that you instigated this house

Say what you want but you did instigate this. SW was arguing with you first telling you to sto treating her like that then you backed off and Kc prolonged it.

How exactly am I misrepresenting anything?

In anycase tell me then what are the reasons she is scum other than the drama caused? Because honestly that isn't much of a reason.

So, defending Klingoncelt. I do agree that it is worthwhile to ask what makes her scum other than the drama. I'd need to review, and expect some others would need to as well.

Do you have any scum reads? I'm noticing a very definite lack of strong opinions.

[davesaz]

@elusive: why try to vote freeko (vote failed btw) just because there is a possibility of joining the KC bandwagon? Freeko is currently voting ABR and only talked about maybe switching.

[Shiro]

@Dave

I don't have any strong scum reads as of yet. would vote Nik,delta or Abr though.

Especially ABR that post inside the drama was horrible(see above someone quoted it)and I cannot see why town would make it. It just served as fuel to make the drama worse.

Delta seem to be playing the too provocative to be scum which I find bleh and I don't see why town would play like him. Only scum that want to seem like too provocative to be scum thus town.

Nik just gut. I would sheep garmr here. Still waiting for her to tell me why she scum reads me.

I also think house might be scum but eh

[T S O]

Happy to see HPMOR readers here - I'm also an avid follower.

[Egg]

Dragon, yes my play here is naturally going to be different than Voided's game. It's a large game where I'm on vacation from work. Voided's game started while I was in like three other games and working doubles and I never even got a chance to post a defense to Mastin's so called case.

Why do you have me as town though if you think I'm playing against my town meta?

<-Answered to my satisfaction after Dave asked the same thing.

Anen, sometimes a question directed at someone could be someone looking for a reaction or a specific answer. If someone answers for them, it could change what the intended person says. It basically just disrupts the scumhunting process of whoever asked the question. And I don't get what you are saying about your ABR town read.

Elusive, the ABR case is that he seems to be intentionally staying quiet. Like more than normal. Usually, he naked votes, sits on the vote, but is constantly coming in saying "so and so is scum" and "Lynch so and so". Here, it's more like unrelated one liners to avoid prods. And just because he also suspects Wake who I have as a maybe scum read doesn't mean he has to be town. Distancing happens, especially with experienced players.

Who's opinion do you want on your reasons?

Anyone.

What do you want to ask him?

Nothing.

TSO, the above should answer your question. Also, Anen makes sense for reasons I stated earlier plus his ABR gut town read doesn't feel genuine. I can definitely see them as scum together. Or independently of course.

Anen, can you explain the King vote? It looks like she was right about Silver's reaction to pressure and if this is even more true when Silver is scum, as King claims, doesn't Silver look scummier than King here?

Tex, can you elaborate on your Dragon vote? It feels more like you are upset with him than you think he's scum.

Drix, I don't know what gave you the impression I was voting Elusive based on ika's meta. I voted her long before I questioned ika on that and the post you quoted was me trying to determine whether ika's meta read on Elusive is genuine or not which I'm still not entirely convinced that it is.

The more King votes I see, the less I understand the case against her.

People I'd be fine seeing lynched today:
Egg - "I'm like a like reactive like player like srsly"

So you want to lynch me because my playstyle apparently makes me a mentally handicapped southern California teenager or...? I don't get what point you are trying to make here. And actually, your other scum reads in that post make no sense. It's like you are trying to lynch anyone who comes after you or is playing poorly. I don't see why you think any of those people's posts come from a scum mindset except Flubber and maybe Shiro but that's a stretch.

Scum-Texcat, Klingoncelt, Flubbernugget, freeko, Shiro

If Silver is scum, exactly one of these names is also scum. And I doubt it's King.

2. About myself? All I'll say is that if you asked 10 random MS.net users who is the best Mafia player, 8 out of 10 would probably say DeltaWave.

I'd probably say ffery.

I suggest we set our current scumreads on the more active players aside momentarily and poke some of the folks who seem to be kind of skating by on the bare minimum. I'd hate to tunnel in on not-really-slips by engaged townies and let the scum team quietly advance without committing anything to the game.

I'm not sure why, but this feels like probably the most manipulative lurker callout I've ever seen. Who did you replace again? Hmm. Mika. Not someone I was scumreading. I'll keep this in mind though.

Freeko, what is your read on Anen and Drix? I apologize if you've already discussed this, but large game and all. I don't remember everything.

Elusive, why is ABR's King/Dragon defense town?

I prefer not to comment on Silver vs King because it wasn't really alignment related anyway. If anyone has specific questions about it, I'll answer. But most of that is between the two of them and seems to be a non-mafia issue.

Wake, what is your current read on Silver? Post 856 feels kind of IIoA. Like it has nothing to do with this game but it feels like you meant for it to.

Mod, can you fix the tags in post 880 please?

I can't follow that post at all the way it looks.

The Serial Killer should reveal his or herself, be leashed under Town's control, and function as a Vigilante along with being protected by the Doctor.

I fully agree with this and would go as far to say that if the SK is willing to claim, I won't vote them unless they either:
A) Make a bad kill that town didn't approve
B) Are the only living anti town role remaining in the game.

Klingoncelt - 6 - SilverWolf, House, Aneninen, Drixx, davesaz, ika
^There is definitely scum here. Maybe two. Hell, maybe even three (2 mafia, 1 SK?)

Also let's not just blame Klingon for that interaction, House was in there too.

Say what you want but you did instigate this.

Holy shit. Leave it alone. It's over. Unless you think House is scum for whatever he said to Silver, these posts serves no purpose except to throw fuel on a fire. Just end it.

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

ika is voting for policy.

Klingonette's question was really low, ABR's answer was scummy. He was riding the hysteria, increased the tension while he, himself stayed calm

Yes. Especially where he says "let's see where this goes". He's enjoying the attention being somewhere other than on himself. He wants a lynch to come from this. Which implies he is scum and not with King. Do you disagree? Why do you think King is scum, again? Do you think King and ABR are scum together?

Shiro, I feel like you want to vote ABR but aren't for some reason. Why not?

[Garmr]

@egg ika also has a scum read on her as he says in his earlier post.

[ika]

im not only doing a plocy lynch on her egg im calling her the sk.

you miss the fine lines

[T S O]

@mod

: Please either mod kill or force replace KlingonCelt for her personal attacks against SilverWolf. She has made posts that have zero bearing on the game and flat out break site guidelines.

Posting this really does nothing to help.

@mod

: Please either mod kill or force replace KlingonCelt for her personal attacks against SilverWolf. She has made posts that have zero bearing on the game and flat out break site guidelines.

Alright, but if I'm modkilled, then SW has to be modkilled too, for the initial fuck you, piss off & meltdown. And she has to be whitelisted.

I insist on fairness.

I am not being treated fairly here. She's acting like a psychotic spoiled brat and I'm the bad guy??? Really??

This is literally the worst possible scenario and a stupid thing to suggest but it does make me think Klingon-town. mmm.

And, reading the OP again, the SK is apparently immune to investigation.

The Serial Killer should reveal his or herself, be leashed under Town's control, and function as a Vigilante along with being protected by the Doctor.

The SK's chances of coming out on top this game are slim, so you might as well reveal yourself right now.

This is ridiculous - like this entire post is ridiculous and I think you know that so why you posted it is beyond me.

[Shiro]

Shiro, I feel like you want to vote ABR but aren't for some reason. Why not?

I am debating if I shoudl vote him or delta will possibly vote one of the two later today or tommorow

[freeko]

...SNIP

Your thoughts on all players in the game so far, and scumspects other than ABR. Also, bandwagons are a tricky thing and super scummy.

If.you and Egg etc want ABR lynched, make it happen.

My thoughts are that there are 18 other players not named Albert B Rampage or myself in this game and its very likely that no less than 4 of them are mafia. Being I believe Albert B Rampage to be scum, that leaves 4 other possibilities. Who they are? Your guess could be as good as mine.

As for getting him lynched. I have made my case for it. I have voted him.

Freeko, what is your read on Anen and Drix? I apologize if you've already discussed this, but large game and all. I don't remember everything.

Right now, I have no opinion on them. I am not going to sit here and make some book available to all on what I think of each and every person. Some I have not even looked at yet at all. What I know is that there are 19 other people in the game and 5 are scum. Will I look at all of them during the course of day 1? Probably not. Right now I have my focus on two people that I very highly believe are scum. klingoncelt and Albert B Rampage.

Why would you ask my opinion of 2 seemingly random people that have nothing to do with where I am currently looking? Simply put, until I am satisfied with Albert B Rampage not being scum in some form, my vote stays there.

[Drixx]

@elusive but it is just two gif D: Thought true I haven't done anything substantial in the game

As for everything that happened the last few pages I don't really feel any of the two as lying tbh and lynching Kc just for the drama that happened is unreasonable. I kind of get where some people come from but I really think at least 1 person in her wagon is scum jumping on an easy choice hiding it behind policy lynch for the drama.

It is a real shame though I wanted to play with SW a full game after that newbie I replaced in shame :/

You're right. You haven't really put anything substantial into the game, which is why I poked you. You did put something of substance into this particular post though. Who is it on the wagon that jumped on using the drama as cover? Is there even anyone on the wagon that wasn't there prior to that blow up? The only thing I see about policy lynch in the thread is Ika saying, during the drama, that Klingon had moved from a scum read to a policy lynch because of her behavior and that he wouldn't be moving his vote (and all the ensuing response to it). His vote didn't originate because of the drama though.

Why are you trying to scare people away from voting for Klingon?

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

ISO Ika and you'll see where he reacted to the unfolding drama by noting that he had changed to considering KC a policy lynch and wouldn't be moving his vote.

Just checked everyone voting her. Everyone has presented/or sheeped reason to think she is scum sk/mafia why was this called a policy lynch?

What reason other than not seeing how town SW was is there? DId I miss anything?

Do you really agree there is enough stuff to make KC look like scum over other people?

You haven't made any real accusation or case against anyone. There's actually some pretty compelling reasons to believe KC slipped hard as SK. You're asking someone if he really agrees that there's enough to make KC look like scum ahead of other people while you haven't pointed out anyone else as having anything to make them look scummy.

I notice that I am confused.

@Egg - I'm fairly new here and my experience thus far has taught me to treat folks who appear to be trying to get by without saying much with heavy suspicion. My years of playing offsite have also taught me to despise heavy inactivity/lurkishness. I come from 48 hour day phases, so having

weeks

to interact is certainly an adjustment. One of the best things about it is that even if I am really convinced someone is scum (as I was and remain with Klingon before that drama exploded all over the thread), I can set that aside and see where it goes and still put pressure on folks who are lurking. I dunno what you found manipulative about that, but maybe the viewpoint from my perspective will help? For whatever it's worth, there are others besides the two I poked that I would want to pressure, but I didn't think just spraying a single post at a ton of people would be all that productive. There's still days and days left to run down other folks who are skating along without really participating.

As for Klingoncelt and why she's scummy, you seem to have skipped over the part where she slipped all over herself and basically broadcasted she was the SK. The later attempt to deflect that onto another player and then mask it all with drama seems to have worked to some extent, as a couple people are behaving as if all the votes on Klingon came after the dramasplosion and are thus suspect.

That brings me to another thought: Despite the fact that all (nearly all? I need to check again to be sure) of the votes on Klingon are from before the drama really got going, we have a couple people who are posting from a position of seemingly being convinced that Klingon is town and thus spraying out indictments against anyone for voting on Klingon with the claims that such votes are opportunistic because of the drama and thus scummy. This feels like a slip to me. It could also, I suppose, be a bit of reverse psychology? Either way, something feels super wrong with people trying to scare folks off and/or away from the Klingon wagon by making the false assertion that the only reason anyone is voting Klingon is the drama providing an easy cover.

[Shiro]

@Dr If I am not mistaken ika,house and daves posts were after or in the middle of the drama, and I am not trying to scare anyone away from it I am just not seeing the KC is scum as correct

As for Klingoncelt and why she's scummy, you seem to have skipped over the part where she slipped all over herself and basically broadcasted she was the SK

Quote that please cause I might have missed it or didnt realise it

Also yea I haven't made any strong accusation that is true. Why is it bad that I want to see what other people think ?

[ika]

drixx/wake/ABR/??? mafia team?