Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Yosarian2]

Two people from each wagon, please vote Shteven. We can

do

it.

...seriously? You really think you can just tell 5 people to move their votes 12 hours before deadline without you giving any new arguments at all and that'll just work?

[Guardian]

Right now I like Shteven scum more than YB or Albert scum; that isn't to say I am sure he is scum.

As for reasons -- this thread gets my attention tonight, some general feelings on all three, at the least, will be forthcoming.

[Glork]

I tend to get skittish about crazyrapid bandwagons near deadlines. It seems to me that, more often than not, they come from overblown reasons and end up on townies. Perhaps I'm wrong this time. We'll see.


Like I said, the one good thing I *know* an Albertlynch would give us: Information.

Wow, this is so full of crap.

ANY lynch gives information.

Glork is scum. Would a vig please take care of this problem?

I meant that the Albert lynch would give us better info than some arbitrary lynch... considering there have been three pushes against Albert today, one of which was baseless and another was a very, *very* rapid deadline-wagon, I think that Albert will likely come up as town. Of course, I won't

know

if I'm right until he's dead. But anyway, my point is that the Albert lynch would probably be most informational. That's what I meant to imply. Your literal interpretation honestly bothers me quite a bit.

Of course

any lynch gives information. But at this point, do you think learning the alignment of Yos2 or Sarcastro or Autumn will be more helpful than learning Albert's alignment? Highly unlikely.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think learning YB's alignment would be more useful than mine.

[Sarcastro]

Failing that, I guess I am going to have to re-read and (potentially) reconsider, and figure out which of the two leading candidates has a better shot at being scum.

Wait, hold on. Haven't you been going on and on

all game

about how incredibly pro-town you think YB is? How you're absolutely certain that he's playing exactly the way he does when he's town? Why now, all of a sudden, have you decided that you might potentially reconsider?

I would switch my vote to you right now if we weren't so close to deadline.

[inHimshallibe]

I tend to get skittish about crazyrapid bandwagons near deadlines. It seems to me that, more often than not, they come from overblown reasons and end up on townies. Perhaps I'm wrong this time. We'll see.


Like I said, the one good thing I *know* an Albertlynch would give us: Information.

Wow, this is so full of crap.

ANY lynch gives information.

Glork is scum. Would a vig please take care of this problem?

I meant that the Albert lynch would give us better info than some arbitrary lynch... considering there have been three pushes against Albert today, one of which was baseless and another was a very, *very* rapid deadline-wagon, I think that Albert will likely come up as town. Of course, I won't

know

if I'm right until he's dead. But anyway, my point is that the Albert lynch would probably be most informational. That's what I meant to imply. Your literal interpretation honestly bothers me quite a bit.

Of course

any lynch gives information. But at this point, do you think learning the alignment of Yos2 or Sarcastro or Autumn will be more helpful than learning Albert's alignment? Highly unlikely.

Of course it's helpful, because we have their recorded suspicions and votes, and also who suspected/didn't suspect or voted/didn't vote them, and also the quick wagon would more than likely be ripe with suspects.

I'm not sure I could have taken the statement you made any other way but literally.

[Glork]

"Any lynch will give us information" is a given.

When I talk about getting good information from a particular lynch (in this case, one on Albert), it should be implied that I'm referring to more or better information than the average lynch.

I didn't think that I needed to explain such a concept in this kind of depth. Apparently I do.

[inHimshallibe]

I realize the difference.

But Glork, what you state you meant to say (we're getting better information by lynching Albert rather than x, y, or z) and what you actually said (we're getting information by lynching Albert) are two different things. I would not have pounced on this if I didn't think you were leaving wiggle room.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can somebody save me by voting YB ??

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The hop-off by Glork was a little too blatant, but I've seen it done by experienced players before.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

over Yogurt almost entirely because Glork hopped off and I think Glork is scum. Also Albert's lynch gives us a lot of info to work with at this point, what with all the attention on him today. Other than these two facts, Yogurt and Albert are even money in my eyes. However, those two facts are enough for me to make a call.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Guardian ? MoS ?? BM ???

Saaave meeee

[Guardian]

Albert, you have posted a heck of a lot in the past few days - but you haven't posted your main suspects or good reasons why you are suspicious of them for quite some time -- at the very least, you have not done so concisely and in one area.

If you could do that for me, it would help me decide.


@Sarc: Yes, I have defended YB all game...

I have a few reasons for

considering

supporting YB's lynch. 1) I have the gut feeling/worry that I have been terribly wrong and helping YB scum. 2) I don't particularly like this bandwagon on Albert, and I don't feel sure that he will turn up scum, though he definitely could. 3) YB got this bandwagon on Albert started, and again, I don't like the wagon that much.

More tonight.

[BillyTwilight]

Hey guys, sorry I wasn't able to post. I had a hard time getting to a comp the last couple days of the conference and spent yesterday catching up on some rest.

The quick wagon on Albert reeked of scum.

xyzzy: Albert look scummy, but he somehow looks different-scummy that he usually does when he looks scummy but turns up town.

Albert: Whatever

Yos: That's not a good defense!

Albert: When he actually posts an analysis I'll answer it

YB: So you are saying that laughing off that post is an effective defense!! BAHHH SCUM!

Albert: You guys, how can I make a defense against an argument that has no substance?

YoS, YB, Guardian, Glork, MBL, Hackerhuck, Shteven: YOUR SCUM!! Your overreacting! Give us a real defense, you always play scummy but this time its different!

Albert: I never claimed to intentionally play scummy.

YB: Yes you did! right here...

Albert: No

YB: Then maybe here...?

Albert: No.

YB: Ah, now I got you! How about right here!!

Albert: No. Stop twisting my words into arguments that they aren't.

YB: Albert's at -3! Vote everyone! Save me!

Glork: Um, wait a sec, this bandwagon smells, Albert's probably town.

And so forth and so on...

Ok, so that's a sweeping generalization, but when I read through that section thats the feeling I got. First of all, xyzzy

never

backed up his argument against Albert with something that Albert could actually defend against. Albert did get over-defensive about the wagon, but I can forgive him that. He's gone from being a suspicious player to having a huge wagon form on him in the space of a couple of days right before a deadline. I see it as frustration more than anything else.

YB on the other hand is the scummiest of players (surprise!) on the wagon. The way he dug for anything that he thought could be the "nail in the coffin" so-to-speak and was repeatedly rebuffed by ABR is telling. Maybe it's just that I see scum in everything YB does, but how can you guys not see how hard he's stretching to get a lynch on the first big wagon that comes along that might save his bacon? This after YB was stuck on TCS for so long. YB, what has Albert done (besides laugh off an attack that he couldn't bring a real defense against) in the last 7 pages or so that have so convinced you he's scum?

Going back to case building against YB, since it's been ridiculously hard to get people to vote for him.

Post #1090: His defense of my analysis of his play. Most of it is pretty lackluster, just confirming that he was doing what I said he was doing but trying to act like it was town play.

However, What I am really not liking from BT right now is the fact that he's speculating everything Ido and trying to make me look bad. Which I have done too Albert, I know, but BT is going, "im not sure if he's trying to be nice, nut iot sure seems like a scummy thing, or Hmm, That could be scummy, but Im not sure. Im really starting to think Billy is Trying to get even more evidence on me.

Yeah, I was trying to show more evidence against you. That's what you do when your scum-hunting.

Im sorry, I wont post frequently anymore when I play games. The thing is, Even if I do contradict myself on the bandwagon thing, I have reasons more than others who just say "I agree With Billy Twilight, Yogurt is scum, I finished my Re-read, I still think YB is scum, I think YB is scum for talking about I think he is scum" So, Some of the pepole who are on my bandwagon for that, you are contradicting yourself. Sarc, I mmainly pointing at you because BBB (Plessiez) Was voting me without BT's pbpa, and you all of the sudden come in and re-vote me after reading this pbpa. Let's face it, This bandwagon is easier to jump on than Guardian's, Which is the operfect oppurtunity for scum. FOS:Sarc. I think I will Do some more pbpa's of the pole on my bandwagon, and Im sure I'll find at least 1 person acting more scummy than me.( Look at Jack, and BT, barely posting, Lurking, Starting Bandwagons, Looking Pro-town). I actually belive MoS is the only one on the bandwagon that is Pro-town for the most part, since his case one me contains more info from himself and less info from Billy's Pbpa, but maybe that just what he wants. Bt's Contstant, "Maybe Yes, Maybe No" Comments about me are odd, I definetly think he's signaling his buddies or He wants to point Fingers at me( Fingers of suspicon, in a way, but not nesscarily, since he's voting me anyways.) I think I will look for connections between Billy and the pepole on this bandwago(Jack,HungryJoe,Mos,Sarcastro/BBB)I still think this pbpa is more of a (and this will sound really stupid when Isay it) "Scum Roundup" Than an Actuall acusation.

But Billy does have good stuff on me, I must say, So Im unsure about Billy's intentions. I will say, He's made it very easy for pepole to vote me and get away with it. If thats what you wanted Billy, Good Job. Fos: BillyTwilight

How is YB still not lynched? He effectively says, "BT, you got a good case against me," then he says, "but everyone who's been swayed by this case is scum. And I am going to FoS Billy for bringing a case against me that makes me look like scum. Like Jack, he's been lurking and starting bandwagons and looking protown, and with all this evidence against me he's just trying to point more fingers against me to signal all of his scumbuddies who just jumped right on the wagon with him, because even though I know he has a good case against me no one who is pro-town would actually be swayed into believing this unless they had their own reasons to be voting me." Please.

Lets see, when forced to claim he accuses Jack of rolefishing in post #1117. Then he continues the OMGUS in #1137, accusing MoS of being scum with me. By post #1143 I've become the godfather. It'd be nice if YB actually attempted to back up his accusations of me with anything other than OMGUS reasons. I've already talked about his crashing on the Albert wagon, but to reiterate, he jumped at the first chance he could of getting someone lynched instead of himself, even though he's been consistently on TCS the last month or so. At this point his OMGUSy play is ridiculous. YB, I suppose now I am the godfather, Sarcastro, HungryJoe, Jack, Glork, and Albert are all scum for voting you; I guess you'd include in that list TCS, maybe Guardian and MBL, and who know who else from the way accusations have been thrown around by you the last 15 pages or so.

There is a lot else to comment on, but I don't have the time right now to pick through the posts and hit them up. Albert's play has looked bad the last several pages, but I think it's bad/frustrated town play, not scum. Or at least, not scummy enough to lynch him

en lieu

of YB.

[Glork]

The hop-off by Glork was a little too blatant, but I've seen it done by experienced players before.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

over Yogurt almost entirely because Glork hopped off and I think Glork is scum. Also Albert's lynch gives us a lot of info to work with at this point, what with all the attention on him today. Other than these two facts, Yogurt and Albert are even money in my eyes. However, those two facts are enough for me to make a call.

That's amusing.

Here, TCS uses the *ONE* upside I mention in the Albert-lynch (lots of info) while simulataneously positing that I'm such a n00bscum that I'd hop on my buddy's wagon to help get it rolling, then make a big deal about bailing when it grows, after citing a semantics/wording based attack from inHim that concerns exactly that one upside that I was trying to get at.

I can taste the irony.




And inHim, I still maintain that you're blowing a lot of air. The difference between me saying "Information" and "Good information" or "The most information" is the only thing that is keeping your attack afloat. You are arguing a point on semantics and

nothing more

, and claiming that I'm "leaving wiggle room."

What exactly do you think I am leaving wiggle room for?

To switch to Albert? Hardly. I've already made my stance very clear, and I'm sticking with my YB-vote (not that it's going to matter at this point anyway). Note that I emphasized that (good) info was the *ONE* upside I saw to an Albert-lynch. I stated that my projected chances of Albert being scum are 30%, which is only 2.22% more than the chances of any random player being scum. Simply put,

I was not going to, and do not plan on joining a lynch on Albert today

. If you think I'm leaving "wiggle room" for something else, speak up, because I have no idea what else you could mean.

I think that you are really, really,

really

reaching here, and it bothers me quite a bit.

FoS: inHim

.... I find you at least 2.5 times more likely to be scum than TCS. While his gut/play aren't helping his resume, your logic is astonishingly horrid.

[inHimshallibe]

Whoa, you

did

unvote Albert before you made that comment. Hmm...

What I meant by wiggle room was "leaving yourself room to wiggle out of suspicion if Albert comes up Town, while you were on that lynch." Now that I see you've switched off, I really don't know what to think.

So now I go back to the drawing board and see post 1275 which surprisingly came before the "information" post. Ugh, I repeat: I don't know what to think.

But, the fact remains that semantics are indeed important. Scum slip up like that often, and the Town uses semantics to catch them. I'm still wary of Glork.

Mod, just end this Day. Guardian's not going to be lynched, and I'm going to vote where there are less of my top suspects.

unvote
vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Albert B. Rampage]

wtf ? Its 10 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

How can BillyTwilight and Glork's posts not convince you ?

If they are scum, there is no way I would be scum with them any way! They would be supporting me knowing full well I would be lynched anyway, and they would be proven right!

Unvote me and vote for YB!

[YogurtBandit]

wtf ? Its 10 to lynch.

but you have 8 votes and the deadline is 7/1o/07 AKA tomorrow

[YogurtBandit]

Also, the problem I have is that Glork argued against Albert than suddenly votes me for deadline sakes.

[Albert B. Rampage]

God YB is so scummy, come on guys lynch me tomorrow and get YB today.

[YogurtBandit]

God YB is so scummy, come on guys lynch me tomorrow and get YB today.

Wifom?

[YogurtBandit]

And Albert, the only reason you are voting me is to save yourself.

[MrBuddyLee]

Albert, I just read your last week of posts and you haven't given us a summary of who's scum and who's not. You've snarked around with Yos and Guardian and tried to foment the wagon competing with yours.

If you are really town, give us your legacy: the list of people to go after tomorrow and why. And next game, don't play like a second-rate court jester.

ps. I just went a month back... still nothing significant. A little babble about Shteven. If you want to survive, post your founded suspicions.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And Albert, the only reason you are voting me is to save yourself.

I went after you since the beginning of your wagon...

[YogurtBandit]

And Albert, the only reason you are voting me is to save yourself.

I went after you since the beginning of your wagon...

But you changed your vote.