New York 180 (Endgame)

[Albert B. Rampage]

I highly doubt there's werewolves, and if there was an SK, they killed the scum. Nobody tried to kill vikingfan.

[Ellie]

There is no evidence for or against werewolves except for vikingfan's claim. There is also no evidence that if an SK exists they killed pisskop. It could equally have been a town vig.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In large normals, two mafia factions are more common than a werewolf and a mafia faction. This game is flavorless. The mafia flipped with with no modifier. I think there's a mafia and a lone shooter. Nobody shot vikingfan.

[Ellie]

There was a mafia & werewolf setup only two large normals back. NY 178. So no, these are assumptions you are making because you want to call vikingfan scum, not facts.

[Ellie]

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town

What're you even trying to say here?

The coding seemed flashy; over the top even. I'm glad to see it got dropped after a couple posts.

Math and goodmorning, what do you think of this interaction?

[Ozgin]

VOTE: cheetory

This is a good start if we're not going to stare down the "VF is mafia" tunnel all day.

I've also got a bone to pick with Kitz but I accept the fact that I could be biased in that regard. I don't know where her townread on me from earlier came from and it seems like her scumread is based on me not talking to other people, so I don't really know how that could affect her read. Hrm.

Pedit: Yeah, the whole Viking thing is lame and I accept the fact that he'll probably die today. I'm perfectly willing to move my vote there if it'll get people to shut up about it.

So this is kind of scummy to me because it sounds like he's saying, "Let's vote player x because I think a wagon on player y is stupid. But if it's popular, then yeah sure I'll vote player y." Aside from a comment about "apathetic dribble" on Cheetory's part 2 posts prior to making the quoted on above, he almost has no reason to target Cheetory. Then in a Pedit he claims that he'll vote vf even though he disagrees with the wagon, just because it's popular. I don't get it.

I also remember reading some weird position Shinobi took in his ISO about him "wanting to be remembered as being on the NJ wagon because I want to look suspicious."

I don't necessarily scumread Shinobi, but I also have no clue what angle he's working at and it's kinda bothersome. I'd say I lean scum on him, but not convicted enough to FoS him yet.

Pedit:

There was a mafia & werewolf setup only two large normals back. NY 178. So no, these are assumptions you are making because you want to call vikingfan scum, not facts.

He didn't say it wasn't possible, he just said it's less common. Be reasonable here, we don't need cloudy junk in everyone's head throwing off reads, which is what posts like this are.

[goodmorning]

But - I think ABR would be quite likely to fakeclaim Tracker as town and am reading him as rather solidly town, and I think Ellie's full of shit. MathBlade could be town, but is misguided as hell.

I don't have a problem with him claiming Tracker. I have a problem with the way it was rescinded.

What was your issue there?

"lol whoops i read the wrong pm haha"

Like I said, that's not a mistake I believe. I'd have liked it better if he just went "well I lied."

Now that I think of it, that actually implies stuff which could majorly fuck over ongoing games.

p-edit: @Ellie: Not really indicative.

@Ozgin: Actually there's something of a fad for multiball Large Normals recently, much like the sitewide fad for Neighbours that's pissed off DGB quite thoroughly.

[goodmorning]

In large normals, two mafia factions are more common than a werewolf and a mafia faction.

Says who?

[Ellie]

He didn't say it wasn't possible, he just said it's less common. Be reasonable here, we don't need cloudy junk in everyone's head throwing off reads, which is what posts like this are.

Then there is no logic to ABR's post. "Less common but literally just happened" tells us nothing about how ika chose to design

his

game. Therefore it should not be used as an argument. (And you calling this "cloudy junk" and "throwing off reads" is off.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

He is scum. You have no basis to believe him. Any lynch in any other direction will be a mislynch because nobody can agree on vf's claim and we're going in twelve different directions while he's sitting there right under our nose.

Think of the odds of the town trying to lynch the cop on day 1, then the doctor gets killed on N1 while the cop is blocked, while the doctor has a loud modifier that doesn't appear upon his death, preventing a kill from a third source, who has so far remained completely undetected by the flips.

You're naive if you believe this narrative.

vikingfan saw the two flips this morning and concocted a half-baked claim, got nervous it wasn't convincing enough and dug a deeper hole to bury himself in. OMGUS on me, hides from the thread, appeals to the mod, blames the mod, makes elaborate grandstanding speeches about how I should be vigged. He's not town. There's nothing town about him. You would think that the extraordinary circumstances around him would invoke passion, drive a need to be believed, bring a new life to his game. But what has he done? He's closed the blinders, stopped caring about the game, and started rotting. This isn't the behavior of an innocent player.

[MathBlade]

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town

I wonder if Cheetory isn't putting on a show for the town

What're you even trying to say here?

The coding seemed flashy; over the top even. I'm glad to see it got dropped after a couple posts.

Math and goodmorning, what do you think of this interaction?

Scum being weird and don't really know anything about Cheetory from that post. My gut says maybe townish on cheetory for that post?

But my gut isn't a human gut and it's a very small indication only...I need more posts to feel the troll stomach. ....I eat good posts and spit out votes.

[Ozgin]

@Ozgin: Actually there's something of a fad for multiball Large Normals recently, much like the sitewide fad for Neighbours that's pissed off DGB quite thoroughly.

That's good to know, actually. How do you learn about these site-wide metas like this? Like how do you know these sorts of things?

I'm curious. As a new player to the site, these sorts of things would help me know what's "probably the case" or "likely to be," at least in terms of mechanics.

[Ellie]

ABR: VF's alignment will be confirmed tomorrow. It is optimal to lynch him then. You know this. I know this. We have flipped scum and 2000 posts of interactions to work from. There is nothing stopping us from lynching some other scum today.

[Ellie]

And again, ika is exactly the kind of moderator who would include that mechanic in the game. So the argument that it is unlikely is bogus.

[Ellie]

If you are scum and see there were two kills and know who your team shot (prob Boon) why invent a third kill?

That

is overcomplicating

Once again. If scum, he gained nothing from inventing that part of his claim except another way for him to be caught.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I checked mafia 165 to 177, that's twelve games. No werewolves in any of them. All mafia, single faction, some had serial killers. This is statistical. You can't read this thread and invent a werewolf faction, you can't. Ellie is too antitown to be town, unless this entire game is an inside joke for her, she is scum, and in either case I want her lynched. If no one will take a definitive stance on viking based on probabilistic deductions, I will compromise with you, and vote for Ellie.

[Ozgin]

He didn't say it wasn't possible, he just said it's less common. Be reasonable here, we don't need cloudy junk in everyone's head throwing off reads, which is what posts like this are.

Then there is no logic to ABR's post. "Less common but literally just happened" tells us nothing about how ika chose to design

his

game. Therefore it should not be used as an argument. (And you calling this "cloudy junk" and "throwing off reads" is off.)

That's fair, but the way you approached it made it sound like you were misinterpreting his point to make yours. But you do make a fair point, as I already said.

ABR: VF's alignment will be confirmed tomorrow. It is optimal to lynch him then. You know this. I know this. We have flipped scum and 2000 posts of interactions to work from. There is nothing stopping us from lynching some other scum today.

How will we learn VF's alignment tomorrow, exactly?

[Ellie]

Setup design is not statistical.

The existence of a werewolf faction has as much to do with those twelve games as the result of a coin flip has to do with previous coin flips. Base setup spec on knowledge of ika, or stop speculating.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ellie isn't using deductive reasoning, she is overestimating vikingfan's commitment and meta knowledge, and is turning away to the truth that is staring her in the face. I've had enough of it. She is probably scum with vikingfan himself, and her lynch is a victory we all deserve to celebrate. Thank you for your time, those are my comments for tonight.

[Ellie]

How will we learn VF's alignment tomorrow, exactly?

Because unless the scum team is stupid -- and Boonskiies' death suggests they are not -- they will not leave an unroleblocked cop alive to check them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

From, not to.

Vote: Ellie

This is the only acceptable vote for today that isn't vikingfan.

[Ellie]

I really, really don't get it. Starting to wonder if I'm crazy, but what I'm saying seems self-evidently true. Math/Shinobi/GM/others, am I crazy?

[Ellie]

From, not to.

Heh.

[goodmorning]

@Ozgin: Actually there's something of a fad for multiball Large Normals recently, much like the sitewide fad for Neighbours that's pissed off DGB quite thoroughly.

That's good to know, actually. How do you learn about these site-wide metas like this? Like how do you know these sorts of things?

I'm curious. As a new player to the site, these sorts of things would help me know what's "probably the case" or "likely to be," at least in terms of mechanics.

It helps if people get angry, and it's as much about perception as reality. "Saying something makes it true" in some ways.

Mostly, it's that I do stats threads for the purpose of explaining how much I don't like VCA. I see what roles get flipped. When games are multiball, it's usually Mafia vs WW, followed by Fire vs Ice, followed by A vs B or colour vs different colour.

From, not to.

Vote: Ellie

This is the only acceptable vote for today that isn't vikingfan.

After bitching about viking for pages you just randomly switch votes? Gross. GROSS.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There is nothing random about it, I've been aggressively against Ellie since Day 1.