Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[The_Relentless]

I'll take your word for it

do you have a read on me yet? curious

[thdgkdms]

Lily guesses that if Lily had to make a choice immediately then Lily would have to say that Lily thinks that Lily can enjoy the Spring together with The Relentless!

[SXTLHGaiden]

Lily guesses that if Lily had to make a choice immediately then Lily would have to say that Lily thinks that Lily can enjoy the Spring together with The Relentless!

i'mma interpret this as "town read"

[thdgkdms]

Lily agrees with that interpretation of Lily's words!

[The_Relentless]

is there any reason you guys (read: just Kilgamayan and Shadoweh) are opposed to double-lynching on day 1

I would personally like the glory of lynching a scumread + lurker lynch at the same time

if we get two strong wagons that aren't outright competing then it's an even better idea

[SXTLHGaiden]

my top 2 lynch preferences are SF and NS.

[Kilgamayan]

Posting from laptop, please pardon all typos.

---

It could be GIF joking

Then why would you not simply ask for clarification?

---

Pieguyn: I think Rylai is in way over his head and that voting for him is lazy. The play is objectively bad, but it's objectively bad in a no-idea-what-I'm-doing way rather than a scum way. There's only so much "AD: No" and "Fair point, still don't buy it" I can take before I just sigh and sit back and wait for the inevitable town-finally-gets-fed-up-with-him-still-being-in-the-game lynch.

I think your #413 is perfectly reasonable (and a better case than Drezi put together), for whatever that's worth given my above thoughts.

---

So I don't like Serene, I don't like their defenders (SB/Kilga/Rylai/Pie)

I think Serene is bad, but SB is worse.

I also think Kilga has five votes and all of them are awful

VoteCount 1.3

• Serenes Forest [4] -
  Kilgamayan
  , thdgkdms, The_Relentless, Sky_Paladin

lolwut

I'm having a hard time parsing the rest of that post (the length doesn't help) but that might because it's 2 AM and I'm distracted by other people in the room playing Neptunia.

---

Relentless: Day 1 lynches tend to be either on lurkers (because people don't understand why Day 1 "lurking" is less unforgivable than on other days) or because someone didn't play the wordswordswords game very well. Neither of those are very strong and I'm not really enthused about the prospect of having more such lynches. I could always change my mind if something really jumps out at me, but I don't really expect that to happen.

[SXTLHGaiden]

I realize i haven't posted this yet (this game).

[ActionDan]

UNVOTE:

last few posts look earnest. And that really fat post a while back is super tryhard in a way that I think would be more likely to come from town even if he detests shadoweh's posts for reasons that I don't see/agree with. Briefly though to answer like 3 points you addressed to me

1) Shadoweh's post is town because it is. I mean I'd like to just stop there but I should correct you that you simply don't have a good grasp of her meta. She's not foaming at the mouth but she's adamant (and colorful) in her opinions in ways compatible with how she'd be as town (and for me besides those opinions being good it's also how I at least partially can read her)
2) whatever, it's still a qualified assessment of another players alignment and means something. I don't care about his post:content ratio all too much (because I tolerate lurking of all kinds mostly and I find his truely "white noise" posts harmless). Because of that and the fact that I package him with Thdgs via spring stuff I am mildly town reading him, with the proverbial grain of salt.
3) Rylai's post wasn't particularly strong (recent ones still aren't), but that doesn't mean it limits me from calling it town. I mean "strong" as in compelling, the thought behind the post is was not bad to me and nor are those behind the recent batch which everyone seems to be up in arms about. Yes there will be idiosyncrasies, but that's par for the course with Rylai.

VOTE: Kagami

I just don't like the all of a sudden Sakura vote on the heels of Pieguyn's budding suspicion. It's a vote whose reasons lie in the past and thus could have been acted upon much more immediately (even in the post where Kagami says Sakura is suspicious). Besides the timing of it, I find the reasons themselves for it weak, especially the muffin investigation thing. Since I believe that played out in the Pieguyn and her back and forth I'll mention I found that looked pretty legit there. And even were the suspicion solid it's abnormal that it's isolated in a sea of content that Kagami has really yet to touch.

Since I'm on the subject the exchange between Sakura and Pieguyn is stymied by the fact that there's a multi-game history being referenced continuously between posts but I think Sakura's responses look fine considering Pieguyn is simply overbearing. The visual I get is of a bunny rabbit being tormented by a Savannah highmane

Everytime Pieguyn issues forth a statement followed by a caveat regarding that statement I cringe. It has the effect of devaluing every post he makes where this occurs and it occurs in about every post. The effect is that I have a hard time determining if you believe what you are saying as opposed to saying something for the sake of being logical.

I think I have the exact opposite opinion so far to everything muffin has said. I think he's way too hard on Serene, which is a lot of his content and doesn't like Rylai much. But these opinions I think come from a town methodology in their construction and annunciation so far.

I like Drezi!

I like Thgds even more than I did before!

I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

I greatly dislike NS's post isoing them
and gaiden's to a slightly lesser extent

This is where you might want to direct your whitenoise complaints relentless as these posts feel slimey. Like banter mixed with questions and remarks that attempt to curry favor.

[Sakura Hana]

Shadoweh I read it and honestly that post is town town town.

I agree, i read it as well.
I like the analysis brought up by SP, But one thing that i don't get is if SP thinks both SF and SB are scum, and decided to play that cross busing tactic at the start of the game. @SkyP <- would be nice if you could clarify that.

I just don't like the all of a sudden Sakura vote on the heels of Pieguyn's budding suspicion.

Huh? I didn't see it that way, it looked like Kagami's vote came independently of pie's read.

I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

Not really, he has some very good and valid points about SB and SF.

Unvote

Vote: Serenes Forest

Vote: SB

Let's see where this goes.

[SB]

wow that's a wallpost

i'm not responding to the bit about jokes because it's lol. I'm pretty sure you're missing at least two of my scumgames from that list anyway, including literally the most recent game I played on the site.

I don't know why you expect me to be extremely confident in a vote several hours into the game, because I'm not. I didn't change my vote in 266 because I was busy with work that needed doing for the next day and it was almost 12.

408.

I also think Pie saying that he'd rather form reads from play than rolespec (somewhere around 170 iirc) and then not really doing much is sort of weird? It sort of looks like posturing. I also feel like when he got his Rylai suspicion the defense of GIF was really over the top considering that others had been saying that GIF hadn't done much seemed to get a free pass?

IMO Pie had said a lot of things, but one thing she had not done was an 'over the top defense of GiF'. She had mounted a basic case on Rylai, and she had mentioned approval of pressure on SB. She had mentioned her opinions on several players, including me. So I don't think it's posturing. I don't agree with many of the things she says because she seems to contradict herself at times, and these are points SB should have picked up and made in his vote if he was serious about it. Serious as Bananas.

I already said why I called it over the top, and you've acknowledged this, so whatever.
Pie had me as a strong townread at the time.
You were Pie's only scumread until that post.
I don't know how you expect me to go over people's entire ISOs when I was basically making rushed posts with limited time left.

Considering people call me Super Busser at times, why would I care that Rylai got one vote and decide to attack the person voting him just because of that? And why does Serenes want to put all the attention on the two of us at the start of the game if we're buddies?

tl;dr get a better case pls.

Getting food and then I'll look over the game again.

[Drezi]

Oh my god. No one is going to read that.

Can you sum it up for me? I'm not reading it either.

I didn't read SkyP's post! though skimming it it seems like moonlogic was employed!

I'm kind of baffled by this attitude. I'd understand it if it was Sky walling constantly failing to compress his thoughts and by the third or at least second wall he ends up like "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and you just sigh and skip/skim his content. That is not the case here however and some people like pie have written a lot more words so far, and you have no problem reading that apparently. Is the fact that for Sky it's under a single post such a concern?



All in all I'm getting a townie feel out of Sky's post, also I like how he went to check plenty of games for the validity of SB's casual claims.

Points I could find issue with:

Some of the "Why -> because you are scum" conclusions when put that way feel like outright disregarding other possible explanations.

"Why are you confused about why you voted?" -> Because you are scum.

Here I don't even get where the "pie is confused about why they voted" comes from.

I don't like Sky_Paladin's push on Serenes very much ... the point about being "reckless" is more of a straw man than an actual point.

I still don't see how he gets "reckless" from Serenes' initial reasoning

This looks quite consistent to me.

That is why it was, frankly, bizarre that Rylai/Kilga/Pie were voting me for challenging Serene, and argued semantics over reckless-or-not-reckless. It was always about "Why did you change your vote?"

I like semantics, and usually I find it to be a valid point, since if you take it lightly it's very easy to (even unintentionally) strawman someone, or get strawmanned yourself. However in this particular case the explanation of inquiring for a more elaborate answer to "why did you change for vote" being the main focus makes sense, regardless of the reckless thing.

Also we can't check the games from SM without registering, but I don't think he'd fake that, as it's quite easy to check. I did not register to do so though, could an other SM player verify the references perhaps?

[Drezi]

I like the analysis brought up by SP, But one thing that i don't get is if SP thinks both SF and SB are scum

Meh, it's been brought up before but this SP SB SF is making things harder to read unnecesarily, could we perhaps stick to Serene/Forest, SB and Sky or something along these lines?

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh I read it and honestly that post is town town town.

I am not disputing the second part, but i read it and im pretty sure i didn't retain anything from it. That might be the wine talking though!

I want Shadoweh to explain what she meant by thinking I'm a weird newbies; I got town vibes from some of her recent posts but her suspicion on me comes off artificial, as well as the "the best defense is a good offense" comment

WE ARE FROM THE SAME FORUM, HOW CAN YOU KNOW ONE AND NOT ME, IM INTERNET MAFIA SECTION ONLYY FAMOUS THERE. also for your later question i was teh one pushing for two lynches so i don't know what you want from me?

I'm not going to actually check the metas of those but they are prorbably correct, its not like sky can't wallpost as scum and he'd feel the need for them to be accurate either way so etc yolo swag

[zMuffinMan]

stuff

I think you're reading too deeply into Drezi's post and seeing what you want to see, even though it's not actually there. And you're ascribing a town feeling to it because it agrees with your own conclusion about Rylai. But, honestly, it's all surface-scratching superficial stuff at best, and I don't really see a distinctively town thought process in it. Like Kilgy mentioned, Rylai isn't exactly the hardest target to go after either.

*shrug*

In short, it is the kind of post I could very easily see scum making and I think you're calling it town because it agrees with your read on Rylai.

If I were to force a lynch through on someone right now, it would be Drezi. Though I'm not really in the mood to do this right now.

[Drezi]

and seeing what you want to see

That's quite ironic for you to say when it's exactly what you're doing. Looks like you decided I was scum some time ago and you're just pushing suspicion here and there while parking your vote on pie, and simply labeling everything I do as "something you could see scum doing" superficial etc. while keeping your options open with stuff like:

While I think Rylai is quite possibly scum (or at least has not done anything that looks town), I don't think Drezi's points are all that strong.

Ignoring the possibility he could be scum with Rylai

---

Though I'm not really in the mood to do this [force a lynch] right now.

How generous of you. All you're doing here is assuming a poisition of power and sending a message not only to me but everyone trying to oppose you in the future.

I'm not liking the muffin one bit so far.

[zMuffinMan]

Looks like you decided I was scum some time ago and you're just pushing suspicion here and there while parking your vote on pie

Yes. Though not through any fault of your own, I've been assuming you're scum since before role PMs were even distributed (though I have no intention of really elaborating on why at this point in time). But I've also been attempting to see a town point of view in your posts, and giving you the benefit of the doubt that the conclusion I came to could actually be wrong. I'm looking at your posts as objectively as possible, and not seeing any town motivation in the way you've approached this game.

keeping your options open

Other than the fact that nothing you quoted is actually me "keeping my options open" (in fact, both posts share the exact same sentiment), I've been quite clear on who I'm suspicious of for the most part (other than the suspicion of you, which I've been hinting at for a while, but haven't outright stated until just now).

All you're doing here is assuming a poisition of power and sending a message not only to me but everyone trying to oppose you in the future

Well I was both figuratively and literally saying I could force your lynch if I wanted to. Figuratively, because I'm confident I could get you lynched if I were to really pursue it. Literally, because I have a spell-card that would almost guarantee your lynch if I wanted to use it. Though I would prefer not using it because it's rather selfish, I've been considering using it just to show that I had it at my disposal and wasted it D1 instead of saving it for, say, a lylo situation.

Also, this attitude is fairly standard for me (especially when I'm town), so the confidence you're perceiving here is more of a personality trait than an alignment trait, for what it's worth. *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

I don't really agree with much of Sky's wall, but I don't have a problem with where it's coming from.

Problem Slots

What does this actually mean?

I think he's way too hard on Serene, which is a lot of his content and doesn't like Rylai much

*shrug*

I don't think I've been that harsh on Serene, actually. I think I've been rather fair in my assessment, to be honest. If Serene's explanations weren't so full of inconsistencies (or things I perceive to be inconsistencies), I wouldn't have as much of an issue with him.

As for Rylai, meh. I don't like his content. It isn't necessarily coming from scum, but it doesn't look town.

I like Drezi!

y

he has some very good and valid points about SB and SF

What did you actually agree with?

[Drezi]

I voted Rylai and you think:
A) Drezi might be the scum here
B) Rylai might be the scum here
C) They could be scum together

nothing you quoted is actually me "keeping my options open"

ok.

[zMuffinMan]

Yes. I don't really see what's difficult to grasp about what thoughts there or why you think that counts as "keeping options open".

It would be like saying Sky is keeping his options open because he thinks both SB and Serene are scum, or really any other player in the game keeping their options open because they think two people are scum. That's not how keeping your options open works.

[Drezi]

I think I clearly demonstrated the difference between [the way you presented your stance] and [thinking 2 people are scum]

[zMuffinMan]

not really, though you can keep asserting that's the case all you want, i guess

[zMuffinMan]

since you're around now anyway, can you talk about your reads and thoughts on the game outside of the 5 or so people you've mentioned in your posts this game?

like, i dunno, do you have a read on pieguy or sakura or relentless or sky or SB or anyone outside of rylai and apparently me now.

[Drezi]

Not necessary, everyone else will decide for themselves at this point.

[Drezi]

^ That was a reply to 471