Mini 442 - Beast Wars Mafia Game Over

[TrustGossip]

Correction: Meant to quote confused's earlier post about his case against me.

[Lowell]

Received prod. Will post as soon as I can. Sorry for the inactivity.

[=Confused=]

I don't quite understand your case against me. Is there something wrong in remaining non-commital in the Ryan/Jordan vs. Lowell charade? It's "choose a side" mentality that leads to mislynches in my opinion, so I opt to not do so.

I think my final paragrapgh sums up the case against you rather well

Basically TG gets my vote for his quick distancing from the teffc vote. Being non committal during the Ryan/Jordan/Lowell situation and for adding unneeded/unwarranted fuel to the Lowell fire. He seemed to want to fan the flames rather than really pin them down and go on the attack himself. He seems to be trying to make as few waves as possible, which I believe is a sign that he is just trying to fit in with the rest of the town rather than actively go out looking for scum himself.

It wasn't completely that you were non committal, it was that you stayed on the fence while fanning the fire on both sides. It stunk. You never really started your own line of questioning, you would just look at who the rest of the town was looking at and go from there. The evidence is all there in my first post against you.

I'm very happy with my vote.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I see Aimee and TrustGossip as the two most pro-town players. Their first summaries were very spot-on, both throwing suspicion at teffc. TG also defended ryan a bit, and Aimee didn't go after ryan either. With the information from the night's deaths, these two are pretty much cleared to me.

So, that is what has happened through the game. Now I will do a player analysis.

I am suspicious of

Albert B. Rampage’s

poetry. I am pretty sure this is a post restriction at work. I want him to explain if he can why he has to post like this.

Dezzr

has obviously lurked and needs a prod.

I feel overall that

HackerHuck

is playing slightly aggressively, but I believe is acting in the interests of the town, and is an active and beneficial player. I don’t see the cases against him.

Jordan

I initially saw as pro-town, but he has come back with some bizarre suspicions, and has notably played safely without taking risks with voting, which I see as quite crucial. This is maybe a way to get out of the blame when voting can be fully analysed later.

Lowell

I initially saw as just searching for reactions. However, the fact that he is quite obviously lurking and not contributing just emphasises the way that maybe he was just starting a case against Ryan for the sake of it. I am less impressed than I was.

OverTheUnder

needs a prod, as a lurker.

I see

Primoris

as a very helpful member of the town at the moment, and feel that his analysis has often be very accurate.

Although

Ryan

has made some good points, I feel that his cases and points against Lowell, especially HH have been unjustified and illogical. I want to know his cases against them.

Teffc

is really acting scummy. She has attacked HH for seemingly little reason, and has been making points I feel for the sake of making points – to appear pro-town. Some of her analysis is just a mirror of other people’s, and I have yet to see any major opinions from her (with the exception of her bizarre case against HH).

TrustGossip

I haven’t really got an opinion on, but I want to hear his summary. In fact, I see him as a potential lurker.

So, as a result...

unvote

, as I will probably re-vote determining the reactions to my summary.

FoS: JordanA24, Lowell, Ryan and Teffc

Minor FoS: Albert B. Rampage and TrustGossip

Ok.

Primoris, your L-2 on ryan was very unwise when there were four (five?!) lurkers at that time. And for what?

Ryan has been very talkative, explained his interpretation of the reason for voting, explained his theories on multiple people. Isn't that the reason for bandwagoning? To mine information from a particular player? And ryan has done all of this, and everything a bandwagon could accomplish short of a total crack or a nameclaim.

I have some problems with teffc and ryan both insisting on Hackerhuck and Lowell being scum. That's tying them together through nameplanting, and although I see your reasons for suspecting Lowell, I fail to see what's suspicious about Hackerhuck.

teffc in particular worries me with phrases like, "too clean", "too safe", "not enough evidence". Well duh on the evidence, we still have two lurkers that have done next to nothing in this game.

Jordan and Albert seem safest to me. Although Albert was somewhat cryptic in the beginning, he's opened up quite a lot with his (I'm assuming) post-restriction. I especially agree with post 85, which is essentially my first paragraph.

aimee, time will tell. I know you had finals and your summary was very helpful, but long summaries with commentary can be a scum tactic to shift suspicions and et. cetera. You're still neutral to me though, leaning towards town.

Hackerhuck I'd like to see more information come out of you. You seem very town ATM but I'd definitely like to see more contribution, maybe you'd need a wagon on you to talk...?

I agree with aimee's assessment that teffc is the scummiest. Posting for the sake of posting and not helping in the investigation, obsfucating ryan's actual intentions and actually contributing on the wagon on him since he seems to agree with HH and lowell as scum. Unless you're both scum playing a game of good cop/bad cop extremely ineptly, I'd say I have a reason to suspect you.

lowell, I had some suspicion about you at the beginning, but now you've gone to lurking. Please don't let this be a scum tactic because it's really obvious (and it's kind of working, because I don't think you're that scummy really).

To the last two. Post already. Really, c'mon, it's page five.

Unvote: Vote teffc
FOS: Primoris, lowell

As for Lowell, he doesn't seem so scummy to me as others might suggest. I have mixed feelings towards Jordan. I'll post an analysis on Dusk and Sweeny shortly.

[Aimee]

I'm suspicious of the way Dusk switched directions concerning Fraggle so quickly at the end of yesterday.

Some people also need prods.

[Aimee]

MOD: Can we get prods on Sweeny, Lowell and STD?

[Dusk]

And I'm suspicious of the way Aimee keeps bringing up my vote on Fraggle. It's not so much that's she's against me (because Confused is too), but more so that she hasn't adressed my explainations on the matter. I'd trust her more if she had picked apart my explainations for inconsistencies and lies. She seems to me as if she's using a Mafia tactic of having let me live through the Night only to ride the suspicions from the previous Day to get me Lynched. It's easier than wasting a Kill.


My next post will be a full ramble on Sweeny.

[Aimee]

And I'm suspicious of the way Aimee keeps bringing up my vote on Fraggle. It's not so much that's she's against me (because Confused is too), but more so that she hasn't adressed my explainations on the matter. I'd trust her more if she had picked apart my explainations for inconsistencies and lies. She seems to me as if she's using a Mafia tactic of having let me live through the Night only to ride the suspicions from the previous Day to get me Lynched. It's easier than wasting a Kill.


My next post will be a full ramble on Sweeny.

Fair enough. I actually read your explanation, and it does make sense. I am prepared to let it fly by for the moment.

You obviously understand that on first sight it does look suspicious - the fact that within an hour you said he wasn't scum - it strikes me as a goon trying to protect the godfather, but basically being forced by the wagon to switch sides.

[Lowell]

Eh, I'm still without the comp access I'd like. Just to give you an idea where I currently stand, in case... you know... anyone cares.

Innocent:

Lowell
Albert
STD
Jordan

Potentially Not Innocent:

Aimee
Dusk
=Confused=
Sweenytodd
TrustGossip

I'll have some better input hopefully very very soon.

[Save The Dragons]

Why isn't Lowell scum ?

Why is he scum? Because he's sporatic? He's wierd? He's quote unquote scummy?

I've seen this many times, and this is really just a playstyle. If we attack people for thier style of play, we're falling into the hands of the scum. Look for actions. Look for lies. Look for tells. Look for votes. Don't look at, "he's wierd."

[chaotic_diablo]

MOD: Can we get prods on Sweeny, Lowell and STD?

No.

Bloody red letters are fun!

I'll decide on a deadline soon. SweenyTodd does not need a prod.

[=Confused=]

I see Aimee and TrustGossip as the two most pro-town players. Their first summaries were very spot-on, both throwing suspicion at teffc. TG also defended ryan a bit, and Aimee didn't go after ryan either. With the information from the night's deaths, these two are pretty much cleared to me.

If you are going to let one very early game post govern how you clear people I'm going to be quite worried about you. I mentioned how TG threw suspicion at teffc at the start, but then how quickly he RAN from that vote for no real reason. Plus if we're going off people who suspect teffc then there is going to be a lot of people looking clear to you Albert.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And I suppose that I should be the flagbearer for the case against teffc? It's in my best interest to oppose a possible quick lynch of ryan, only because I see teffc's behavior as a greater evil. And now she has free license to lurk because she is up for replacement.

Could we get a vote count and the status of the last replacement, mod?

The case against teffc is that the sum of her testimony is either; worthless (posting just for the sake of activity), vague (innumerable 'too' statements), or nonexistent (the long period of lurking until asking for a replacement).

But like I said earlier, her getting replaced is generally bad because now we have to wait for fraggle to post enough to analyse.

Unvote: teffc/Fragglescum

Fragglerock

: extended lurk period after replacing, no urge to establish town-ness even though his predecessor has/had a bandwagon on them. Why?

This is not really running away. He has been consistently attacking teffc and Fraggle; that's why I think he's town.

The only post that MAY be slowing down on teffc/Fraggle is here:

And Fraggle and aimee... ehhh. They're doing their "part". It's negligible, but it's not particularly scummy, yet it's not the most helpful either.

Obligatory

Minor FOS: Aimee

for doing exactly what FraggleScum had done, albeit in a less obvious manner.

But this is as close as it gets.

[Dusk]

My overall opinions of Sweeny is he is so pro-town, so not Scum in every post that it's unnerving! Can someone be this convincing if they are Mafia. It's got to be impossible. You can't fully trust anyone in this game so I won't say Sweeny is absolutely, positively Town, but I haven't seen a slip-up or anything suspicious yet. I wonder if I ever will.

Sweeny has given fair and thorough assesment of most players. When he interegates players he's not afraid to get cross-examined himself and answers well. He reserves judgement for a while before voting people but he's not afraid to put votes on people at crucial moments (post 181). And he's careful not to cast votes without gathering all possible opinions (Post 242). He’s good at catching obscurity and inconsistency like Ryan claiming that Hackerhack got degensive to a ranfdom bandwagon when he didn’t (post 264)

• Replaces Ripley who never posted
• In post 160 Sweeny does his first recap of the game; it’s very thorough, and intelligent
o He suggests ryan’s “freak-out” on suggesting to make a newbie crack is “odd”
o Gives true and good explanations on the good of bandwagonning
o And he responds well to Jordan that bandwagonning is a way to look at the responses not to actually get the lynch
• Post 162 shows that ryan was unhelpful in his scum-hunting ways. Ryan wanted quiet players so that we can vote them rather than vocal replacements thought this is a bad move. He suspected Lowell but not much else, protested bandwagons on the ground that they are bandwagons
• His suspicions are with ryan also because ryan...
o Buddies (Jordan)
o seems defensive and apologized for walking into a game and start throwing wild accusations, but Sweeny suppor som e of ryans suspicions
•

I think I misread Sweeny’s non existent suspicion on Lowell from this “Okay come on... This is obviously (I think, please feel free to mock me for being a moron and fooled by this scum tactic) a joke and a light=hearted way to hop on a bandwagon... Not scummy IMO....” (post175).

• And this after Lowell’s FEEEAR me line

“This one actually made me LOL... = ) I mean you react defensively (hmm... I wonder if he was looking for reactions there....) and he hops over to you... HE didn't freak out he made (what I found to be quite funny) a joke....And was hunting scum while he did it...”

Where Sweeny takes this to be funny and a way of keeping things light-hearted in the pursuit of scum I found I all suspicious and eratic
• Then Sweeny votes ryan (post 181)
• I also misinterprated Sweeny's non-existent suspicion of Lowell for his fair assessment of Lowell's oddities.

Then Sweeny reminds Lowell that there should be responses to his questions from 175, to explain why Aimee’s in depth summaries make him suspicious, then in 215 he says he’ll vote for Lowell without explainations the “Wait Do I still have someone’s random vote on me I can OMGUS with the best of them”

• Sweeny uses polite prodding for 219
• Then in 224 he asks more opinions than Jordan’s “one sided crusade” on Lowell, who else in Jordan’s mind is scum, who else is next
•

He continues again on questioning Lowell (post 240)

•

Sweeny’s main vouche for Lowell come from the idea that the guy doesn’t mind putting himself in danger to find Scum, which is a pro-town move

• Sweeny is suspicious of Jordan’s sureness (416). Jordan doesn't look at other players besides Lowell.


These kind of re-caps take forever. Forgive me everyone if you don't see them for a while from me. Again, sorry about the earlier mix-up, Sweeny. I hope tis clears up where I thought you were suspicious of Lowell. You do indeed speend a few pages on his side. You were only giving him proper consideration, not suspicion.

[JordanA24]

*bump*

[Dusk]

Right, Aimee, I don't blame anybody for being suspicious of my vote on Fraggle. But I think if someone really looks at the posts, there's good reaoning is there to consider.

Now to continue with Lowell, I didn't like how the votes came off of Lowell because he simply questioned the two people who voted him. The line about the OMGUS and the Wait-do-i-still-have-a-random-vote-on-me part was suspicious. So I voted for him on that. Sometimes you don't get a list of compelling arguments just a couple of incidents that don't sit well with you.

But then he started playing a little more seriously and began directing his attention to other player besides just one or two players- ryan and Jordan, as he should. (So should I) I think he was right and the Mafia were just spectating and running down the clock (post362). It helps for later when he criticizes Jordan for not "varying targets" (410). Lowell is right, of course. Also, him being an early voter on Fraggle gains a lot of points (454). So, with all these ood moves to counter-act the early bad ones, I'm willing to go for someone else.

Unvote: Lowell

But I still am wary about him.

[Dusk]

Alright, I want this game to move. And given Albert and Confused's run-down of Trust Gossip,

VOTE: Trust Gossip

It's esp. odd to me that Trust should automatically think teffc leaving the game to be replaced was for not being able to deal with a Scum role. Maybe I'm taking it too seriously, but also it surprising how commited one can be to teffc, but not to other players Trust raised suspicion on.

Also Albert, your last two quotes from Trust suggest it's something about the way he FoS Aimee hat makes him innocent. Am I undestanding correctly?

[Aimee]

Right, Aimee, I don't blame anybody for being suspicious of my vote on Fraggle. But I think if someone really looks at the posts, there's good reaoning is there to consider.

Now to continue with Lowell, I didn't like how the votes came off of Lowell because he simply questioned the two people who voted him. The line about the OMGUS and the Wait-do-i-still-have-a-random-vote-on-me part was suspicious. So I voted for him on that. Sometimes you don't get a list of compelling arguments just a couple of incidents that don't sit well with you.

But then he started playing a little more seriously and began directing his attention to other player besides just one or two players- ryan and Jordan, as he should. (So should I) I think he was right and the Mafia were just spectating and running down the clock (post362). It helps for later when he criticizes Jordan for not "varying targets" (410). Lowell is right, of course. Also, him being an early voter on Fraggle gains a lot of points (454). So, with all these ood moves to counter-act the early bad ones, I'm willing to go for someone else.

Unvote: Lowell

But I still am wary about him.

Dusk, I would advice you to read some games Lowell has completed recently. Trust me, he plays like this. What he has done is definitely play-style related.

[Aimee]

I am also going to re-read TrustGossip's posts.

[Lowell]

vote Aimee

.

Just a hunch. I need more info out of the five I listed.

[=Confused=]

Albert: Looking at TG's posts like that I can see where you're coming from... but as I was reading though he felt the most scummy to me. As soon as teffc was up for replacement TG did a lot to distance himself for no real reason. It made no sense to me, so that combined with his other actions during day one makes me believe he's scum. Also the fact he's now lurking has not gone unnoticed by me.

Lowell: Any chance you could break down why you find people on your list the way you do. Just throwing lists out there isn't helpful to the rest of us.

Aimee: I know you suspect Dusk, but who else? Why? I feel like your here, but that you're just questioning others and not throwing your own suspicion out there. We're interested in your take on things... Well at least I am

I realize that I mention TG was lurking but the town feels quite light on the whole. I think Sweeny should be prodded too, he was very non committal during the start of the day and hasn't posted since the end of June. I'm also waiting on STD's post.

[Lowell]

Lowell: Any chance you could break down why you find people on your list the way you do. Just throwing lists out there isn't helpful to the rest of us.

Albert because, in spite of himself, he managed to out a scum yesterday. Were he scum faking a post-restriction, the LAST THING another scum would do would be copy him. One's death would kill them both. And yes, I do think that's WIFOM-proof.

STD because I just finished a loooong game as scum with him, and he's different this time. I just can't see him as scum.

Jordan because I believe his claim.

Lowell because I'm certain he's town. And even if he wasn't, he'd lie.

[Sweenytodd]

I will review the game shortly.. I apologize for my lack of posting, I have been ill. Eagerly awaiting ABR's analysis (if only because it'll be something aside from a huge block quote and a minor "i agree with this" line...)

[Dusk]

I've sent your chicken noodle soup via PM. Feel better, Sweeny!

[Albert B. Rampage]

I reviewed all of your posts, sweeny. I updated my notes, but I can't get to typing anything coherent on you yet..I get mixed feelings about you.