Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[onion]

@Prawn
no, it seems to me that Llama hit it on the head in 059 and GIF's reaction really was suspect. this particular post does not cast suspicion on Llama. There are OTHER reasons why Llama is scummy though, consider investigating those.

@Equinox
yeah, the needling happens. While transparency is important, showing the middle of the list isn't pro-town. People who are in the middle of the list are people you don't have solid reads on, which is good to know on it own, and worth slapping those people around a bit to try to fix that. But because they are middle-list people, it means there's no strong cases either way for them, which means saying one is scummier than another is pretty arbitrary. So listing them in a more-scummy less scummy order doesn't really make sense, but does give them something useless to talk about instead of i dunno answering a pointed question that might help you get a read. i don't think this is making very sense i'll try to answer this question again later.

@Derangement
no i don't trust marquis' claim. he lied to us about catching up, so now i don't trust a word he said. he's still a terrible lurker and lair and a good target for a policy lynch. NJAC could have done any of three things, and they would have replaced Marquis' claim because we can't trust it. he could have also claimed VT, which is what probably would have happened, and that would be null. he could have refused to claim, and that would totally mean something, and questions would ensue and i'd probably end up with a much better read on him than i do now, which is what i want. OR he could claim something else which would probably be really scummy and hey that's a good read on him too. good reads are good.

i provide post links because that's what i do, if you haven't noticed. i don't try to trick people into acting scummy, because that backfires too much. instead, i try to make people act pro-town, which makes them easier to notice if they are scum or not. giving people full information is a way to make them act pro-town when they are lazy.

so no, i don't trust Marquis' claim and i'm trying to get a read on NJAC because i'm liking the policy lynch more and more as the day goes on.

and crap, GIF is VLA until the deadline?! shitty. and nooooo Bubs don't inactive out! Amaryllidaceae are known for their persistence! instead of inactiving out, how about answering my question for you in 408?

[Untrod Tripod]

what exactly are you HOPING would happen

it's not like he's going to claim scum
it's not like he's going to claim a PR
it's not like if he says "yep I'm a VT" anyone will change their read

you're literally just rolefishing

unvote vote onion

[prawneater]

@onion & other Marquis haters:

Read this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6518847

He was town that game.

The slot is not scummy, give NJAC a chance to post.

[Untrod Tripod]

prawn

bus your buddy

[prawneater]

EBWOP: Just click on the game and Iso Marquis.

Re: Onion asking for claim

I still think he's town, he just made a bad post. Like my onion lynch poll.

[Derangement]

@Derangement
no i don't trust marquis' claim. he lied to us about catching up, so now i don't trust a word he said.

If this is true, then you're saying you don't know NJAC's role.
And you're actually suggesting for him to claim, at L-3, using the fact Marquis already claimed as the reason why it's OK?

You cant have your

cake

claim and eat it too.

[prawneater]

prawn

bus your buddy

I'm bussing LF. I'm pocketing and keeping Marquis alive til endgame.

[ChannelDelibird]

i provide post links because that's what i do, if you haven't noticed. i don't try to trick people into acting scummy, because that backfires too much. instead, i try to make people act pro-town, which makes them easier to notice if they are scum or not. giving people full information is a way to make them act pro-town when they are lazy.

This is an example of your unbelievable rigidity on 'how things are done' getting in the way of anything getting done. You've parked a god-awful vote on UT because he doesn't conform to your strict standards of pro-town behaviour, and now you say that you provided helpful links 'because that's what you do' when it would clearly be

far

more illuminating for NJAC to give an instinctual response without useful aids, so that we could contrast his behaviour to his predecessor's more transparently. This is obviously anti-town and I presume, given your well-documented objections to such behaviour, that you will be voting for yourself momentarily.

[ChannelDelibird]

Notice how Prawn immediately dismissed (again) my push on him by saying that only I saw things as scummy. Which apart from being a blatant lie (Equinox voted him for similar things, UT appears to have as well, CDB, onion and OB have been calling him scum for the same things) is just a way of actually again dismissing my attacks without really answering them.

I'm going to need you to provide an example of me calling prawneater scum "for the same things". Granted, I've not been here for a couple of days but I just scanned my iso for references to prawn and I am not seeing what you claim that I said.

[TellTaleHeart]

What did you think of everything that Marquis (not NJAC) had posted on the things that he had read?

I think it's shrug-worthy. None of the reads look particularly legit.

[NJAC]

It's taking longer than expected. My apologies. While I finish reading I'll give you some quick first impressions.

After reaching page 6: Bubs, Derange, maybe Equinox and maybe UT look town. Llama could be scum mainly because of PoE, according to the list of potential willing-to-take-CES-out-of-the-picture players. I don't like the wagon that formed on onion. From that wagon I'd say the scummiest player is TTH.

More later...

[TellTaleHeart]

*shrug*

[TellTaleHeart]

*mrph* I've gotten so detached from this game.
It's mostly because I feel like I'm on a different wavelength than everyone else about what they think is scummy.

UT

Why are you voting prawn, UT?

This can now be an open question, by the way.

I don't like the way he's arguing with llama (nor the way he is ONLY arguing with llama)

Is that scummy?
In terms of the argument over the last umpteen pages, I actually think Llama's pedantic approach to his argument is kind of scummy. It's hard to see the core of the argument. Here's the closest I can get to it:

This guy is doing NOTHING and yet no one pays attention to him. When he does decide to actually do something, its scummy. Dismissing a case as OMGUS, changing reasoning behind votes afterwards, lurking, the whole onion thing which immediately changed to "reaction testing" when called on it. He needs to be dead here. The last thing game related thing he has said is "Marquis lurking is not indicative of alignment - I would lynch them for it". I mean, that's literally saying "I would lynch this player over something that my own meta says is a null tell" while having avoided raising a case on anyone for over a week.

Frankly, this isn't a good case. Apparently, it's left to the reader to make the connection from point A (this such-and-such behavior) to point B (the reason why prawn is more likely scum for it) and I can't make that connection for

anything

Llama brought up. Can anybody walk me through this?

[prawneater]

Thank god people are finally reading LF's posts.

If you haven't already, ISO LF. Tell me you can make sense of what he's saying. Tell me he isn't full of hot air.

[petroleumjelly]

Day One, Vote Count #19

NJAC – 3 – TellTaleHeart, GuyInFreezer, Onion Bubs
onion – 2 – Derangement, Untrod Tripod
prawneater – 2 – LlamaFluff, Equinox
LlamaFluff – 1 – prawneater
Untrod Tripod – 1 – onion

With

11 alive

it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is

March 5, 2015, at 6:45 AM PST

.

Not Voting – 2 – ChannelDelibird, NJAC

Onion Bubs has requested replacement. Searching for a replacement for Onion Bubs.

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler:

[Equinox]

Baa baa, etc.

Unvote, Vote: onion

[petroleumjelly]

snscompt1 replaces Onion Bubs.

A deadline extension will be considered, but I prefer

not

to extend the deadline. If players have strong opinions or preferences about an extension, a PM can be sent to me.

[Untrod Tripod]

sup sns

[LlamaFluff]

Looked back and saw this:

Now that I think about it, it doesn't matter how I interacted with CES. I would just want to do a quick re-read of the game because other people are probably reading it for meta.

Why would town care about trying to figure out what their meta was in a past game? The only alignment that should be at all concerned with their meta is scum who want to be playing differently (if they were scum) or that they should try and match past play (if they were town).

Town should just assume their meta would be the same in both games.

Also can we please not vote onion. Remember the whole town tell from him where to be scum he would have had to make up that a friend came in and picked three players (ignoring that this is probably just two scum) and then posted it and not made a "nah I am" comment? That level of faking town slips just seems genuine instead of manufactured.

[prawneater]

I don't think you remember the context of 296. I was saying if I was scum in GIF's spot there, I'd be concerned with meta. Apparently you agree. Was that another bad attempt at trying to make me look scummy?

LF would you mind replying to CDB's 458 and TTH's 462?

[snscompt1]

Rawr. Checking in and will catch up in a bit.

[onion]

@tripod
i was hoping for a read on his inactive shitty slot. the 'good' answers were 'yes i'm VT' which i would have read as 'yes, the situation that marquis was in warrented a vt claim and i might be scum because of it.' or 'no i'm not going to claim' which i'd read as 'i disagree with what marquis did in that situation' which would give me a reason to not try to policy lynch him because the policy lynch is good.

@prawn
in 330 you say we should lynch Marquis if he doesn't improve or replace out. now he's replaced out, but i'm not seeing much improvement. are situation hasn't changed. thoughts?

@you can't have your cake and eat it too
i'm more suggesting that he re-affirm or don't re-affirm his claim. Marquis was terrible and lied, and there's no reason to believe the roleclaim meant what we think it meant. see the tripod response above.

so yeah, we are approaching deadline, and i also feel rather detached from this game. now we lost bubs and that makes me sad. i'm having a real hard time with Llama because i had really good scum-reads on him, but he's improved in the past like 2 weeks. it might be scum giving me what i want, but well i dunno. maybe.

i do see tripod hopping on the brand new bandwagon because he hops on all bandwagons. the only one he missed was the one on himself.

034, tripod 5th on Llama.
209, tripod 4th on Marquis.
399, tripod 2nd on Prawn.
451, tripod 2nd on onion.

but hey, that's just Tripod being the anti-town he is. who am i to have standards about what is good for town and what isn't. oh wait, yes i do, and Tripod is scummy because of it. he bandwagons. bandwagoning is bad.

i'm having a hard time with prawn. there was a sorta bandwagonish on him, which petered out, and i'm not entirely sure why people were suspecting him. nothing concrete. he answered my question, and i need to give it some hard thought to decide if i suspect him or not.

hell i'm having a hard time with CBD GIF and Telltale too! The only people i don't suspect are Derangement, Bubs and maybe Equinox. but you all can't be scum, so i need to do it better.

so yeah. deadline looms and i want to lynch either Tripod or the Marquis Slot. i don't know if i'd settle for Prawn or Llama but i will know after i deep think it tomorrow when i'm not hating life (ran out of tobacco, can't get any until tomorrow)

i still don't see the super-scum-tell in my interaction with NJAC, but derangement sees it, and he seems right about everything, so i'll deep think about that too, look at it from an outside perspective, and see if it really is as anti-town as people think. i sure hope it isn't. i don't like acting anti-town.

[snscompt1]

All done.

Town

:
Derangement-Wants to learn, clear, concise, engaging.
UT-We're twins.
Equinox-Engaged in a lot of the heavy discussion(in the beginning)
Llamafluff-Same thing but all throughout

Null

:
GIF-Hard to read him. So will sheep whatever my town reads say about him.

The Lurkers

:
NJAC

Need to reread and ISO

CD
Prawn

Scum

:
NJAC(because of Marquis. Meta. Reasons)
Onion-My evil twin. As scum I typically try to write out all of the facts to help keep my story straight and prove to others how "we" can win by logic. I barely read half his posts though. I couldn't handle it.

VOTE: Onion

pedit: stuff.

[prawneater]

@onion

Did you read the link I posted to Marquis' last game? He literally made the exact same promise posts, never delivered, and then replaced out. He was town that game.