Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

There is of course something else. Diego might have signaled or bread crumbed who he had been targeting as jailkeeper. We might be able to find a clue there. Especially considering the first two nights were kill free, it's possible that Diego knew something. I'll have to ISO him when I get the chance.

[Drixx]

We're in MYLO. MYLO happens when the town has one more alive player than LYLO. The terms mean as follows:

1.) MYLO = Mislynch and lose. If the town lynches incorrectly, then the game is over (barring any blocking of the night kill)
2.) LYLO = Lynch or Lose. The town MUST lynch and do so correctly, or they lose (again, barring any blocking of night kill)

Since we lost a jailkeeper, it's very likely that Diego jailkept the scum who submitted kill either one or both nights. After the 2nd non kill night, he

really

should have claimed. We now have nothing from him when he potentially could have won the game with a claim. That hurts. A lot.

@NumberQ - Why did you hammer when I had given intent and a timeframe? Were you afraid that someone might say something vital? I left that time open,

specifically

so town PRs could think about whether to claim before the night. I didn't ask them to, but it's correct play to let them have the chance. You came in and unilaterally shut down that opportunity. That's really quite scummy.

[davesaz]

Thanks Drixx, I was going to post that MYLO/LYLO explanation but my phone was not cooperating.
Another hour or so of driving related to my daughter's birthday, then I'll be able to dive in.

[davesaz]

OK I'm back, starting in on a reread with Diego as JK in mind.

Remember that JK is both a block and a protect, so the target is not necessarily scum. Scum could have figured out his role if he had a sudden and largely unexplained read change on one of their kill targets, in which case good scum play would be to keep it quiet and target him for a subsequent kill.

[davesaz]

This is interesting.

I've felt suspicious of you and Bitmap from the beginning.

Not you individually

, but y'alls interaction between each other bothered me.

1.If bitmap isn't scum, is DDD still scum in your opinion, or if DDD isn't scum is bitmap still scum?

My scum reads for all three: DDD, Bitmap/Seraphim, and BRantz,

are all individually separate

.

lol

VOTE: Diego

I apologize. I didn't explain my position well enough. I wasn't suspicious of DDD individually at first. That's clear by town reading him day one. However I was suspicious of his interaction with bitmap on day one. After night two, I then changed my read of DDD to scum. That read is stands on its own from bitmap.

UNVOTE:

Diego's response to my vote felt town.

At first glance this looks like a vote, a simple explanation, and an acceptance of the explanation. But what about the explanation is new? Diego had said all along that the DDD / Bitmap interaction made them both look scummy. And he said previously that the reads were separate.

Now that we know Diego was a JK, the

after night two

stands out. It now looks like this was a result, but we can also tell from his later actions that Diego didn't know if this was a block result or a protect result. What we do know is that it looks like NumberQ bought the result immediately, with no further discussion. How would he know that's a result? If he's scum and it's a protect result, he'd know for sure. As scum the play is to hope that others think it's a block result, but not let on that he knows it's a result -- because only scum would actually know that.

VOTE: NumberQ

[numberQ]

@NumberQ - Why did you hammer when I had given intent and a timeframe? Were you afraid that someone might say something vital? I left that time open,

specifically

so town PRs could think about whether to claim before the night. I didn't ask them to, but it's correct play to let them have the chance. You came in and unilaterally shut down that opportunity. That's really quite scummy.

That didn't occur to me at the time, but even in hindsight I don't think any PRs would have claimed. We had 16 hours left, the day had been stagnating for a while, and no one mentioned anything about PR claiming. I didn't "shut down" the opportunity anymore than you would have if you hammered a few hours later.

Anyway, I did a quick ISO of Diego and I'm having trouble differentiating between his actual reads and info he got from jailkeeping. I couldn't find any bread crumbs, but that's not to say that there aren't any. In general, I think his dave/Seraphim suspicion is based on his jailkeeping results just because of how adamant he seemed about it (his conspiracy post being probably the biggest example of that). However, I don't know how much we can trust that, considering one possible setup with a jailkeeper also has the 1-shot bulletproof.

Power role speculation isn't really my forte, so I'm going to stick to regular scumhunting for now and wait to see if someone is convincing with a PR based argument.

VOTE: snscompt1

snscompt hasn't done much this game, so my read of that slot stands as it did day 2.

@snscompt

, post 663 says you have one scum nailed down if BRantz flips town. BRantz flipped town. Who's your scum?

PEdit: uhh... what? I "bought the result immediately"? Even if I was scum, how would I have known Diego was the jailkeeper and that was hinting at a result?

[snscompt1]

Considering its MyLo, you should be very careful about where you place your votes. The fact that you are so willy nilly is scummy to say the least. A simple FoS would suffice.

As for not doing much, I disagree. I replaced in and havent interacted with everyone enough to actually do a lot. So the fact that I havent done much is true but misleading.

As for scum, if BRantz had flipped scum, Jelly wouldve been my number 1 suspect.
Since he flipped town, Davesaz is scum.

Reasons later. Im on mobile.

I had you pegged for town, but your reason for voting me and actually voting me is making me question that.

[numberQ]

This game has been nothing but careful, plodding slowness. It's boring, and probably why we've had so many replacements. It also hasn't been very effective at actually finding any scum yet.

Also, lol @ you defending yourself by saying doing nothing

isn't

scummy. It's null at best, and I'm mainly voting you because of zombiekitty anyway.

[snscompt1]

What did Zombiekitty do? (Or not do)
Who else do you think is scum, or is it just me atm?

[snscompt1]

Also, doing nothing IS scummy, Im simply saying I havent had a chance to actually DO something yet. Today I will be able to be active now that Im not replacing in right before a deadline.

[numberQ]

Post 596 contains my zombiekitty case.

As for other scumreads, I see the scumteam somewhere in you, dave, and Seraphim by POE. Drixx just looks way too townie (if you are scum Drixx, kudos), and JellyRolls accidentally confirmed himself town in 478 when he says he didn't know scum couldn't talk pre-D1 (if you are scum Jelly, that was a ballsy lie).

Also, doing nothing IS scummy, Im simply saying I havent had a chance to actually DO something yet. Today I will be able to be active now that Im not replacing in right before a deadline.

And I'm saying that until you DO something, I'm going to think you're scum. And maybe even after, depending on what it is that you do.

[snscompt1]

Fair enough, however, Im going to advise you not to tunnel.

[davesaz]

PEdit: uhh... what? I "bought the result immediately"? Even if I was scum, how would I have known Diego was the jailkeeper and that was hinting at a result?

I think the question is more along the lines of how would you know if you weren't scum. He essentially repeated the same thing in different words. The only really significant difference that I see in his post is "after night 2". If someone reverses position and says that someone's town after a post like that, especially

immediately

after, it means they think it's a night action result.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 4.01

numberQ (1)- davesaz
snscompt1 (1)- numberQ

Not voting: snscompt1, ForWhomTheJellyRolls, Drixx, Seraphim

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

22nd March, 9am AEDT. This is in (expired on 2015-03-21 18:00:00).

[numberQ]

I'm having difficulty following your logic, dave. I voted Diego over a perceived contradiction, Diego cleared up some confusion and showed me it wasn't a contradiction, then I unvoted because I was satisfied with his answer. As far as I can tell, you think I'm scum because I failed to pursue the "after night 2" line in his explanation, but why would I have? You said it yourself that the line only stands out since we know he's the jailkeeper. Reads can change over night, with or without being a power role, so I don't see how it's scummy that I accepted his read changed.

Though like I said I'm not entirely sure I understand your case, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[snscompt1]

Ok. After reading and rereading what Dave said, I

think

I finally understand.

It's worded oddly and I'm having trouble putting it into words but here we go:

Number votes Diego.
Diego responds by saying "after night 2" his reads changed. He pegged DDD as scum. This either means that DDD was scum or was targeted(all hypothetical right now).
Number immediately drops the vote.

Dave is arguing that Number dropped the conversation because Number saw "after night 2". This implies a PR role. Since Diego could claim and then not get lynched, Number moved on to someone else. Diego pegged DDD for scum. And since Number moved on, Dave is implying that DDD was town and Number had targeted DDD during the night.

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong at all, but that's what I managed to get out of it?

[snscompt1]

Reads can change over night, with or without being a power role, so I don't see how it's scummy that I accepted his read changed.

Reads can change over night but typically aren't stated by "after night 2". That's just weird. They are normally phrased "after rereading, after ISOing, after digging". Not just "after night 2". That implies to research or logic to make a change of mind unless you're a PR.

I think that's what Dave is arguing.

[snscompt1]

VOTE: No Lynch

[davesaz]

Ok. After reading and rereading what Dave said, I

think

I finally understand.

It's worded oddly and I'm having trouble putting it into words but here we go:

Number votes Diego.
Diego responds by saying "after night 2" his reads changed. He pegged DDD as scum. This either means that DDD was scum or was targeted(all hypothetical right now).
Number immediately drops the vote.

Dave is arguing that Number dropped the conversation because Number saw "after night 2". This implies a PR role. Since Diego could claim and then not get lynched, Number moved on to someone else. Diego pegged DDD for scum. And since Number moved on, Dave is implying that DDD was town and Number had targeted DDD during the night.

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong at all, but that's what I managed to get out of it?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. NumberQ seems to accept the "after night 2" with no questioning or further followup, which says to me that he somehow knew that something was up. Ergo scum, since only scum could know that without a need for followup.

I agree with Drixx that yesterday's hammer seemed a little fishy too. Scum who know who a PR is might not want to allow extra time for a last minute claim.

I'm probably going to mangle this, but here's my attempt at the theory. It's clearer in math terms...
Lynch vs. no lynch is a tough one. If we think we've found scum, then I think lynching is better. If we're really unsure then the odds are a little better with no-lynch.

A mislynch loses unless the NK fails
A correct lynch yields 3 town vs 1 scum with a kill, and 4 town vs 1 scum with no kill. Definitely better but risky.
A no lynch yields 3 town 2 scum with a kill, and 4 vs 2 with no kill (same as current).

[davesaz]

I thought NubmerQ was scummy yesterday too. That deserves to be re-stated to make it clearer.

[snscompt1]

Im disliking the lack of activity here. Jelly, Drixx, Seraphim, any thoughts?

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

Sorry, lots of things happening at once right now.

VOTE: No Lynch

I prefer this for now.

[numberQ]

I thought NubmerQ was scummy yesterday too. That deserves to be re-stated to make it clearer.

snscompt's no lynch vote might be very careful scum play, but it rings town to me. Enough so that I'm having doubts about wanting this lynch today, at least.

UNVOTE:

[numberQ]

EBWOP: I forgot to delete dave's quote... ignore that.

[numberQ]

EBWOP2: Actually, don't ignore it. I remember why I quoted it in the first place. I really shouldn't post with lack of sleep.

dave, when/why did you think I was scummy yesterday? I ISO'd you but couldn't find anything, and you say "re-stated" so I'm assuming you made mention of it already.