Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[Aneninen]

Tiershift,
the only player who knows for

sure

whether it was a slip or not is YOU. I can only guess and there's

always

a chance that I'm wrong. If you're scum, there'll be other things against you, sooner or later.

By the way, here's a little tell.
Your logical fallacy in 645 is: Loaded Question (and also False Dilemma). I'm voting for ArcAngel because of the reasons I explained, not because of joining the biggest wagon. As for the slip, see above in this post. You tried to explain that there are only TWO possible behaviour in my situation which is also wrong.

[TierShift]

so you're saying that my slip wasn't, in fact, a slip.

[TierShift]

I wasn't saying

why

you were joining the biggest wagons, just that you were doing so. You are in fact ignoring me and voting the biggest wagons. It's a fact, with nothing to change about it. That is not what a false dilemma is.

[shos]

So im not surr about anen and starting to doubt myself about TF,, but im rather sure about AA9. So im staying here for the night.

If i die, remember that scum have a roleblocker

[insanity018]

And that is a basic introduction to Shameless! From now on, I will be showing some of my favourite images/quotes/scenes from the show.

Votecount 2.6

ArcAngel9

(4): shos, Toon Fighter, Aneninen, Alchemist21

(L-1)

shos

(2): ArcAngel9, This Christmas

Aneninen

(1): TierShift

Not Voting

(1): droog

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-23 22:00:00)

Toon Figher is V/LA until Tuesday

[Alchemist21]

Respond to me re: anen

Is this @me? Tbh his tunnel isn't out of the ordinary imo. I argue with my scumreads a lot when I'm in tunnel mode. Actually, looking at how he has cased TF and been voting elsewhere, I'd say he's been lighter about tunneling than I usually am when I tunnel. As far as the perceived slip goes, he hasn't really been contradictory about it. Yeah, he thinks you slipped, but that doesn't mean he'll get others to see it that way (and he probably won't unless one of you actually flips scum because it's a highly contextual point). He's still scumreading you, which makes sense from the POV if him thinking you slipped.

@Anen, I do feel I need to point this out though. The only way what Tier said was a slip is if he's scum with the Dodgy/Droog slot. You're considering AA9 and TF scum possibilities, so you already have some belief that you could be wrong. I need you to take a step back, clear your head, and ask yourself if you can still keep pushing your point against TierShift knowing that the slip only makes sense in a highly specific situation. Remember how I deathtunnled Siv in our last game together? I feel like you're doing the same thing to TierShift, and it could potentially be just as damaging to the Town.

[Aneninen]

so you're saying that my slip wasn't, in fact, a slip.

A blatant misrepresenting.
I think it was a slip =/= I'm 100% sure that it was a slip.
I'm not 100% sure that it was a slip =/= I don't think it was a slip.

I wasn't saying

why

you were joining the biggest wagons, just that you were doing so. You are in fact ignoring me and voting the biggest wagons. It's a fact, with nothing to change about it. That is not what a false dilemma is.

Another misrepresenting. Eg. I've never been on the Shos-wagon.
I've posted it many times that I'm not ignoring you; I'm trying to find the other scum, or the scums if I'm wrong about your slip.

The fact that you want to remove me from the game makes me think that you're scum

Regardless of the slip topic

.

[Aneninen]

@Anen, I do feel I need to point this out though. The only way what Tier said was a slip is if he's scum with the Dodgy/Droog slot. You're considering AA9 and TF scum possibilities, so you already have some belief that you could be wrong. I need you to take a step back, clear your head, and ask yourself if you can still keep pushing your point against TierShift knowing that the slip only makes sense in a highly specific situation. Remember how I deathtunnled Siv in our last game together? I feel like you're doing the same thing to TierShift, and it could potentially be just as damaging to the Town.

lol can we lynch dodgy first?

THIS

is why I've always been unsure whether it was a slip or not.
What if it

wasn'

but TierShift is scum? In that case, his partner can be anyone... but right now, I can see two possibilities.

[Alchemist21]

Ok, but is that all of why you're scumreading him? This was a point we covered last phase and you're the only one still stuck on it.

[Aneninen]

No.
Check my Day1, there are many things about him. A brief summary can be found in 157.

[Alchemist21]

Ok. That summary was on Page 7, 20 pages and 2 weeks ago. All your points since then have just been referencing back to the supposed slip. It doesn't look like your read is adjusting to changes in the game and that's what makes your tunneling so damaging.

[TierShift]

Look, all your points on me boil down to possible scumslips. There is no such thing as a possible scumslip; something is either a scumslip, or it isn't. If it can be proven a scumslip, lynch the fucker. If it cannot, you cannot use it as a scumtell. If it can be otherwise explained (in this case, by infinitely more likely causes), it just isn't a slip.

You don't think I slipped following this definition.

[TierShift]

He's still scumreading you, which makes sense from the POV if him thinking you slipped.

No, you push the one that slipped relentlessly until he dies. THAT makes sense.

[shos]

you guys really need to drop this subject. that is obviously not a slip, and TS' way of thinking in regards to slips is totally wierd, which is why he reads anen as scum because of it. these are all perception stuff. Deal with them later if you wish, scumhunt differently if you can.

[TierShift]

Anen is 100% sure (or very close) I'm scum
Anen pushes elsewhere
Tell me how it makes sense from a town perspective.

[shos]

well even if I have a cop guilty on X, and absolutely nobody supports that lynch, no point in pursuing it. maybe later.

[TierShift]

You've got to be kidding me.

[shos]

This happens, you know. if you can't show he is scum beyond your cop guilty, you're fucked. it's not enough to know the alignment of people in a mafia game, you also need to convince the others to foolow you.

meanwhile, AA9 is scum. I do not understand why she is not dead yet.

[droog]

The last two pages
Just now
Gave me some strong opinions
I didn't have before

Please don't hammer yet ts
I have a few casses to write

[droog]

"Droog/This Christmas are the ones I feel are the scum candidates on the Tier wagon by the nature of how they joined the wagon (no explanation for voting a V/LA player is super scummy). It actually doesn't help that they're both breathing down my meck right now. (Inb4 omgus accusations) "

Also this is nonsense sw
I voted ts an hour before deadline
Because that was the only wagon
With enough votes
To maaybe kinda get lynched

((I didn't realize ts was vla
But I can't prove that
So it doesn't matter))

[droog]

She's been pushing this nameclaiming business the whole time, but for some reason didn't bother volunteering her own nameclaim. Hell, it's almost like she's certain the game can be broken by flavor, because I don't see other methods of scumhunting from her. Who else but scum could be certain of a thing like that?

Okay, here I am again, one read later.

I absolutely hate arcangel's continued use of only nameclaims to scumhunt. I gave my flavour asap and most (or all?) of the people have by now. I did this in the hopes she would turn towards real scumhunting instead of being hung up over this. This has not happened, but she

says

she scumhunts while using flavour as a complement, but this is simply not true. She only uses flavour and doesn't even know what to do with it. Despite that, she keeps using it. It reeks of scum motivation and avoiding saying something useful, while making yourself 'conftown' because of claim.

So, consider this an intent to hammer, which will only happen after I finish my reading. Please claim, arc.

This convinces me more than ever
That aa9 is town
A few reasons:

1) aa9 is exactly the kind of player
Who would not give reads as town

2) there is no logical scum reason
For aa9 to still not give reads
Put another way
And I know this sounds fucking dumb

Scum aa9 has no reason to not scumhunt

Aa9 knows how to play mafia
Why would she as scum make a huge fuss
Attract all this attention
And not even do the basic things
That would save her as scum

3) town has motivation to do what she's doing
Town will scumhunt in all sorts of weird ways
Scum dont

[droog]

i called you out for being inconsistent
so you have a few options

you could take a step back
explain why youve been inconsistent

you could deny being inconsistent
but hell even if inconsistent isnt the right word
you know what i mean

you could explain your reads

you could put words in my mouth

you could take back your vote

Having fluid reads isn't being inconsistent. Just because I change a vote doesn't mean I've completely dropped a read. However, at yours and Tiershift's request I will provide a reads list.

this is scummy
I am not calling him inconsistent
Because he changed reads
I am calling him inconsisten
Because he doesn't explain himself

Alchemist has had 4 strong scumreads
That he switches between
Over 2 days

And he acts like it's perfectly normal
And that my bringing it up
Is nonsense

Okay, so here's my alchemist read:
I had him as strong town day 1, due to his 21 and his knack for resolving arguments. I especially like 319.
But his day 2 consists of doing pretty much nothing. He first sheeps shos and then comes to arcangel with a pretty weak vote. I do like that his reads change without him really explaining every step inbetween (trajectory, I can elaborate on this if someone wants).

All in all, town, but with *some* reservations. Can I see some reads out of ya, alch?

My strongest Townread is Anen. I know people don't like his tunneling on Tier, but he's shown paranoia about it that I'm pretty sure comes from Town because I've been there plenty of times before. (Seriously though, Anen you do need to ease up and focus elsewhere. At least consider where you reads will be at if Tier flips Town.)

Shos is a Townread of mine now, partly because of his gunsmith claim, but more because he has the same idea about the Tier wagon that I do. I'm seeing things more his way in regards to the flavorclaiming, and I'm sure if he hadn't been forced to claim yesterday he would be refusing to nameclaim now too.

Tiershift is another Townread because of that EoD wagon. Like I said before I'm sure scum would have liked that lynch pushed because he was V/LA and couldn't defend himself.

Droog/This Christmas are the ones I feel are the scum candidates on the Tier wagon by the nature of how they joined the wagon (no explanation for voting a V/LA player is super scummy). It actually doesn't help that they're both breathing down my meck right now. (Inb4 omgus accusations)

AA9 is a scumread for the reasons I've already given. She's almost certain the game can be broken in some manner by flavorclaiming. I think she wants the nameclaims because she can match them to PRs, so this is a form of rolefishing from her. It might not be so bad if there was an attempt tohunt with other means as well, but she's been super focused on the flavor claims here.

[droog]

Tiershift,

I've explained a couple of times that I stopped pushing you because noone seemed to have agreed with me about the slip you made.

On Day1 everyone suggested me stopping talking about the slip and starting to get other reads. I've been doing so since the late-phase of Day1. I've been called scum because of my case against ToonFighter. I've been called scum because of joining the ArcAngel wagon – no matter that I posted the SAME about his name-claim push as Alchemist and TierShift.
It seems that I'm scummy regardless of my posts and actions. What's that? A collective Regardless Of Card?

Post-edit: I haven't read Alchemist's recent post.

This is town
And I can't remember all I thought
A minute ago


But what I'm thinking right now
Amens calling ts a slip
Is not a scum gambit

That would be a very risky
Pushy
Gambit for scum anen to make

And amens play here
Does not match
Someone pushing a risky gambit

[droog]

Ok, but is that all of why you're scumreading him? This was a point we covered last phase and you're the only one still stuck on it.

Alch
More than anyone else
Is hung up on this
When the an

[/size en post I quotes
Literally already answers this

[droog]

Tldr

Aa9 is town
Anen is town
Alch is scum

-VOTE: alchemist-VOTE: