Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[fferyllt]

abilities, I guess since katsuki is claiming the ooba visit was a joat thing.

[Kagami]

I had asked way back when, there's not a 1 to 1 correspondance.

[fferyllt]

somewhat concerning that your targets are all dead.

Who's left to claim?

[Kagami]

I assumed they would kill your slot or GIF over thgsm =\

[fferyllt]

could speculate about what made letters a better kill but meh.

Who hasn't claimed? Pieguy?

Once that is out of the way then there are a couple things I want to discuss so plz don't hammer anytime soon Rylai.

[pieguyn]

remilia scarlet
the scarlet devil
non-human

2 abilities
vampire: hated
manipulation of fate: I can target a player during the night. if they have 1 or more day cards left, they must use one the following day or else they die. if they don't have any day cards left, I'm notified as such. used it N1 on Sky, didn't particularly see a reason to use it again after that.

2 spellcards
Scarlet Sign "Red the Nightless Castle": night-use. when I use it, everyone who used a spell card that night has their name written in red the next day. used it N1.

Divine Spear "Spear the Gungnir": we already know what this does (dayvig, only works on people with 0 or 1 spellcards left).

I'm also obviously a part of SDM neighborhood. anyway, this is why I called for people to claim if they'd use a spell card on N1 and why I wanted to claim last today. I was hoping scum would attempt to lie about card use, but (as far as I can see - correct me if I'm wrong), everything seems to match.

[pieguyn]

quick question:

@Kagami:

what's your current read on Rylai?

[fferyllt]

That complicates things a little.

I have 2 spell cards I'm thinking about using today, which is why I don't want a quickhammer before we think about what I should do.

I could pick someone and use the same spell card that SB used. I'll learn how many cards they currently have.

Or, I could keep this thread open during the next night phase.

[Sky_Paladin]

Hmm.
why you didn't bomb Dan n2 Katsuki or Ank n3
Do you know why did Giadens name appear in blue the same time everyone else appeared red etc etc

Well probably it's nothing but Dan implied knowledge about the colors.

Cut: ok Shadoweh back in my super town slot.
Night chat seems great imo

More when not phone

[pieguyn]

why you didn't bomb Dan n2 Katsuki or Ank n3

it only works on people who have 1 or more day cards left, and they can get out of it by using one regardless

there wasn't much of a point in bombing Dan when either he doesn't have any day cards or, if he did, he'd use one to get out of it anyway. now that you mention it, I realize it would have been strictly better to use it on Katsuki N3 to confirm that he doesn't actually have any day cards that he's keeping hidden, but I didn't think about it at the time.

[pieguyn]

there are a few more things I want to say but I want Kagami to answer my question first

my gut feels very strongly that Katsuki isn't scum here. there's not much of a reason for it besides interactions, plus a general feeling that he wouldn't be careless enough to fuck his claim so ridiculously badly if he was scum here. I basically agree with everyone about the way he used his role, though (in particular hiding behind Shadoweh N3 doesn't make any sense whatsoever, especially if he had a town read on her).

I'm also not sure why people are saying lynching him would confirm Shadoweh when there's probably only 1 scum left. given scum appears to have an extra kill and a spell card that can end the day phase immediately, there shouldn't be 5 scum even if one of them is a traitor. Katsuki's result can be trusted regardless of what his alignment is.

[Sky_Paladin]

Pie: who do you think is scum then?

I don't buy "scum would be more careful" because town would also be more careful. Katsuki's play is entirely consistent with scum trolling around and getting caught between lies, and getting angry at the players who take what he says as it stands, not allowing him to trololol away from it. Basically everything out of his face hole is a lie.

I'm pretty weirded out that you apparently did nothing n3 after a double scum flip to base your action off of.
Really bad. You had basically what amounted to a scum guilty on Katsuki. Why didn't it occur to you to use it?

[Sky_Paladin]

At the very least it would have confirmed or destroyed Katsuki's role claim.

Holy shit. Now I have to ISO you, Pie. I can't ignore this terrible, terrible play.

[pieguyn]

I don't buy "scum would be more careful" because town would also be more careful. Katsuki's play is entirely consistent with scum trolling around and getting caught between lies, and getting angry at the players who take what he says as it stands, not allowing him to trololol away from it. Basically everything out of his face hole is a lie.

yes, this is why I'm saying it's entirely gut

I agree logically speaking, there isn't anything town about his recent play and his claim doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty weirded out that you apparently did nothing n3 after a double scum flip to base your action off of.
Really bad. You had basically what amounted to a scum guilty on Katsuki. Why didn't it occur to you to use it?

it's not really a "scum guilty". I'm pretty sure Katsuki is for the most part telling the truth about the role that he has regardless of alignment, except maybe the bit about being a hider (which now that I'm thinking about it more might have been something he just made up on D3 in order to get people to think of his claim as a town claim after realizing how fucked he was, which explains why he wouldn't have felt any need to plan it in advance), so it didn't occur to me he might have had any day cards.

[pieguyn]

also I'll answer who I think is scum later - I'm currently mulling something over and don't want to make it public yet.

[fferyllt]

On night 3 there were only 2 posts in the neighborhood. SB didn't post at all. Pie posted about feeling dumb for second guessing himself at the end of day 3, and claimed responsibility for the red names on day 2.

[Sky_Paladin]

It "didn't occur to you" to try to get some information about the scummiest player in the game? On the night they claim to have been untargetable and you now have "a strong town gut read"? Pie come on dude. You had an ability that would have, should have, MUST have been used on Katsuki as both town or scum and you claim you did nothing?

I don't beleive it.

[Kagami]

The only aspect of his neighborhood behavior that suggests scumminess is that he and ooba basically only conversed with me (looking back through it, there's absolutely no ooba-rylai interaction). That kind of goes both ways, though, since it's hard to imagine that a scumpair wouldn't at least make some token effort to converse with one another.

In general, I think his behavior indicates town. He began night two with a post that indicated he recognized AD as conf-scum, while ooba didn't follow suit at all. At one point, I pointed that the name of AD's spellcard was strange and it's odd that it simply ended the day. Ooba entertained that notion, and I think this is what prompted 1433 (which AD immediately dropped, possibly because it was clear I wasn't going along with it).

I think rylai's belief in the neighborhood that I was town for having been the nightkill target N1 also felt legit. I have no bulletproofness and no town visited me night one, so I wasn't the N1 kill, which makes the statement pretty town.

He also began night three with the comment that he thought shadoweh was suspicious and that katsuki felt too easy. I think this makes sense with his infinite vote card.

Conclusion: I think rylai is town.

[Sky_Paladin]

I mean it was right here in the thread! Kats had just claimed for Ooba and Ooba had flipped scum! Here was twenty pages of people trying to decide if Kats or Ooba was scum and you just went "gee I guess I'll do nothing after seeing this" despite having nothing else to do except check/bomb Kats. I don't beleive it.

[pieguyn]

It "didn't occur to you" to try to get some information about the scummiest player in the game? On the night they claim to have been untargetable and you now have "a strong town gut read"? Pie come on dude. You had an ability that would have, should have, MUST have been used on Katsuki as both town or scum and you claim you did nothing?

I think you're overestimating the degree of town read I have on Katsuki by about 1000%. when I say it's entirely gut, I mean exactly that - I don't have any good reason for him being town and won't oppose his lynch, but I don't feel particularly optimistic about it.

and you're aware Katsuki didn't claim hider until today, right?

outside of that, I fully admit not targeting him N3 was suboptimal. there's not much else I can say. /shrug

[fferyllt]

I don't really understand why the neighborhood died back so completely after day 2.

Who that's still alive plays mafia with SB offsite?

[Sky_Paladin]

I'm saying that you "forgot" to use your ability doesn't add up because you should have used it on somebody, full stop. Failing to use it was sub optimal. Failing to use it when you had a targe screaming out to be used on is worse than bad. It's criminal.
And now you town read Katsuki? :/ it has scum written all over it.
Gonna have to put Pie in my scum list until I get a chance to ISO them.

I play mafia with SB offsite. He posts irregularly and he seems to have vanished/got busy day 3, probably why he replaces out.

[Sky_Paladin]

Ebwodp and Shadoweh plays with SB/Sky off site. More games than me.

[pieguyn]

Conclusion: I think rylai is town.

this is where I'm leaning as well

what I'm wondering is whether it makes any sense for scum to have 2 spell cards that end the day. if Rylai is telling the truth about his spell card here, which he almost certainly is, then scum would have Dan's card + a card that would allow them to immediately lynch whoever they want, which I think is way too much.

I'm really meh on his in-thread play, but what you're saying about what he did in the neighborhood makes me feel a lot better about him too.

[Kagami]

Meh, I think katsuki's probably scum and the game will probably end when he's lynched.