Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Off the Mark]

Hmm true, scum field agents could lie about location investigation results. Bah. Still could be worth it - then later if we get intel about the bomb being in a location that someone investigated and cleared, we found the bomb and a scum.

[Yosarian2]

Just a thought: if we had 3 field agents plus Jack all investigating locations in D.C. we could sweep through the whole town in a couple "hours".

Perhaps; I guess it depends if we need to just look at the major buildings.

Although, even if we don't find the bomb that way, there are apparently other things to find; for example, there were apparently "shooters" who tried to kill Jack (I'm assuming NPC's at this point; I guess a scum at CTU doing it himself, or a rouge field agent, could also be possible), and we have a lot of town abilites to "extract" information from captured NPC terrorists. Even if the field agents or Jack don't find the bomb, they might find or capture a terrorist, or stop a secondary terrorist attack, or something.

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to. Nothing that has transpired in the last few days has caused me to think Yosarian2 is town.

Yos2, the reason I wanted to know what you thought about FA is because I made a case on him... it is quite odd that you ask me why I want to hear about him after I make a case... its almost like you aren't even reading my posts...

The Field Agent idea is a bad idea in my opinion, it seems like they would just be randomly picking locations in DC, which is quite a big city. It wouldn't be productive. It almost seems the SIAs should be monitoring suspect terrorist cells instead of players, as maybe we could come up with something useful.

[Off the Mark]

Did you look at the map, Guardian? There are not THAT many places of interest on there. We could cover all the major buildings in a few hours if we did a concentrated search.

[Guardian]

What makes us so sure the bomb is in a place of interest as opposed to in some random building in the federal triangle? I don't understand why we have reason to think that random searches of "locations of interest" will be effective. In 24, the bomb is always in "some warehouse".

[Off the Mark]

True, the bomb might not be in a place of interest on the map, but given that the map Pooky gave us has touristy locations highlighted, I think it is pretty safe to assume those are the locations we should focus on.

Wouldn't it seem kind of stupid if the bomb ended being in a warehouse that

wasn't

on the map? I mean, we are playing a game after all, not actually looking for a nuclear bomb.

[Guardian]

I don't think that that is a safe assumption. I think that's reading too much into the mod's map choice. I think it would make perfect sense and not be stupid if the bomb was in a warehouse in a location somewhere on the map.... no?

OTM, since you and I seem to be alone here, what do you think about lynching someone at every opportunity, even if there are not any good scum candidates? Does it not seem like a bad idea to you?

[Yosarian2]

You know, Guardian, you could actually respond to my points on the subject, rather then just ignoring everything I say. But, whatever.

Anyway, when does hour 5 end? If we're sending Jack somewhere, I'd like to get the order in before the end of the hour.

[Yosarian2]

Nothing that has transpired in the last few days has caused me to think Yosarian2 is town.

Dude, nothing that's happened all game has "caused you to think I was town". You started attacking me quite early in hour zero, based on nothing, and you've been attacking me ever since. Either you're a stubborn fixated townie, or you're a scum who's trying too hard to look 'consistsnt'. Other points, like your blatent refusal to actually defend yourself and respond to logical argument set against you, make me think that scum is more likely.

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to.

Blatant refusal to address cases on me. Yes sir. Mr. Yos2.

I think you mis-characterize my attack on you. Your points on what -- on the Field Agent thing? Please be more specific.

[Off the Mark]

You pick a spot to send Jack, Yos. If we discuss in thread, the terorrists will know where Jack is headed.

Guardian - I think we need to lynch at every opportunity, but only if we have a good candidate. At this point, I think FA is an excellent candidate, but we seem to have quite a few lurkers, so I'm not sure we're going to be able to put together a lynch in time.

[Guardian]

I agree, as per my previous reasoning.... No one is interested in Yos besides me...

unvote: Yosarian2 vote: Frozen Atlantic

. I should probably address FA's response to my reasoning. Will do... maybe.

[Yosarian2]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to.

Blatant refusal to address cases on me. Yes sir. Mr. Yos2.

Um...you did blately refuse to adress cases against you, several different time, and you still haven't adressed any of them.
#1:

First of all, Guardian, when you do your re-read, one thing I would specifically like you to adress is the case I laid out against you in post 555, back on page 23. The only response you ever made to the case I laid out against you and the vote I made for you was that my argument was "not obveously flawed". I realize you were on vacation and perhaps have time to respond fully, but if you could respond now I'd appriciate it

Your response:

Yos, you really want me to address that? *grumble grumble* I will do so if you affirm that it is so desired

In post 863, I did "affirm" it, and laid out several other arguments against you. You still refused to comment on my earlier argumetns, despite your promise that you would "if so desired", and just said you were too "depressed" to respond.

You again refused to respond to ANY of the arguments set out against you here:

I am still not ready to respond to Yos -- I have my thoughts, but putting them into words will just suck and take time and make me more annoyed when he responds and points out the "flaws" in my responses.

here:

I don't feel up to responding right now because I think he's scum and I don't like the case at all, but I'm sure there are "flaws" in my counter-arguments and it will start this back and forth that I'm really not up for.

and here:

I am not very interested in discussing the merits of your attack on me, though, because I know I am not scum.

So, yeah. You've pretty consistantly just flatly refused to defend yourself against either of the major cases I made against you (post 555, and post 863). I get the feeling that you know you can't effectivly respond to my attacks on you, because I've got you dead to rights, and so you're hoping you'll just ignore them and try to undermine me in other ways and hope the cases I made against you will be forgotten.

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to.

Blatant refusal to address cases on me. Yes sir. Mr. Yos2.

I had been refusing. I am no longer. Do you want me to actually look back through your posts and find the case myself? Fine, will do!

[Yosarian2]

I just told you, Guardian. Post 555, post 863.

[Guardian]

Sweet. Doin it tonight, hopefully.

[Guardian]

Me trying to respond to yosarian2 in 555, even though I think Yos is scum and this is pointless.

Yos - wants to be director a lot. Says he has evidence that he always does this, doesn't. Initially comes up with some things that are subtly anti-town (the not using the white house thing, for instance), but then moves away from them when people disagree. Tie with Xdam? puts him as director.

Using the white house guy or not is a close call.

I really really disagree there. Speeding up the FBI when we don't really have a better idea of what we should be doing is an obvious move. Having the FBI sped up is going to help us all

We're going to have to move some people around over the next few hours as people start to die or get lynched, and keeping someone in a position that dosn't do anything directly, and keeping him there until hour 5, is iffy, for a possible long-term payoff, is not as obveous a choice as you try to make it sound.

Again, I disagree. By the way,

anyone,

does Eyceking's speed up count? Or does someone have to do it again now?

Honestly, I didn't change my mind because of your arguments; I changed my mind mostly because eyeking started looking suspicious to me, and as I didn't want him to be a crypto or a SIA agent I didn't really have anywhere else safe to put him.

The white house is hardly safe as we can bribe terrorists or w/e, but ok.

Xdam - opposes everyone but Yos for director, gets powerful role because of it. Not a lot of theory contributions. Not great reasons for not supporting others over Yos.

Bull. I explained why I made him a cop; it's because he did good scum-hunting in the pre-game, which is what I was looking for as we really want our cops to nail a scum fast. Perhaps he didn't have as many theory contrabutions as scum, but he was one of the most active people during hour zero, and I think scumhunting's much more important in a cop then game theory, don't you?

I think pro towness is important in a cop. I still think UA or CTD would be better cops, as they are more pro-town looking.

He supported me over you for dictator because you've been looking scummy, and he explained why in great detail. It's also a complete misrepresentation to say that he "opposed anyone but Yos for dictator" or the he got a powerful role "because" he supported me; many other people were supporting me from the beginning of the game, wheras he didn't vote for me until much later, and for a while he supported Crashtext instead of me.

OK, that's true, fair enough.

You've been attacking him ever since he started attacking you've given quite terrible reasons why. And now you're pretty blatently just making stuff up that has no basis in the thread.

Huh? Making stuff up? Where, oh master Yos?

Albert - suggesting horribly anti-town ideas, interactions with Yos, possibly faked late appearance.

Sure, I disagree with many of his stratagy ideas. However, my opinion of him is the same one you yourself stated several pages ago:

perfect position for him. Town, but doesn't really know what's what imo

What, exactally, has changed your opinion since then? Or are you just throwing whatever you can at the wall to see if it sticks?

I change my mind a lot. I can't answer this adequately because as of right now I find Albert townlike,

You know what, this entire post of Guardian's been full of paranoia and OMGUS attacks against people who doubted him earlier in the game.

Paranoia, possibly. OMGUS, I don't think so.

This, combined with his scummy day zero behavior, his intense desire to be dictator and to attack anyone who got in his way, and his attempt to direct the cops earlier today (most likely in order to get them to not target HIM or one of his buddies) has convinced me he's probably scum.

I wanted someone I knew was pro-town and would do a good job as director. Only I fit the bill. I think you are the dictator, not me, and scum at that.

[Yosarian2]

I really really disagree there. Speeding up the FBI when we don't really have a better idea of what we should be doing is an obvious move. Having the FBI sped up is going to help us all.

Well, except that we had to go down to 2 field agents, which actually left the FBI agent open to being killed, which would have already cost us 1 of the extra investigations the white house guy could have theoretically given us.

Again, I disagree. By the way,

anyone,

does Eyceking's speed up count? Or does someone have to do it again now?

I don't think it does; eyeking didn't sound sure. I guess we won't find out until the FBI agent concludes an investigation.

The white house is hardly safe as we can bribe terrorists or w/e, but ok.

Meh. I think that mostly just applies to captured terrorists, but it still seemed safer then most other positions.

I think pro towness is important in a cop. I still think UA or CTD would be better cops, as they are more pro-town looking.

I did make CTD a cop. And could you explain why you think UA is more town looking then Xdaamo? Because from my point of view, your suspicious of Xdaamo looked very OMGUSy.

[quote="Guardian]

He supported me over you for dictator because you've been looking scummy, and he explained why in great detail. It's also a complete misrepresentation to say that he "opposed anyone but Yos for dictator" or the he got a powerful role "because" he supported me; many other people were supporting me from the beginning of the game, wheras he didn't vote for me until much later, and for a while he supported Crashtext instead of me.

OK, that's true, fair enough.

You've been attacking him ever since he started attacking you've given quite terrible reasons why. And now you're pretty blatently just making stuff up that has no basis in the thread.

Huh? Making stuff up? Where, oh master Yos?
[/quote]

Um...the paragraph I just quoted that you agreed with? Where I showed that you totally mischaracterised te way Xdaamo behaved in the pre-game and his interactions with me? What you discribed had basically no connection to what actually happened in the game, so yeah, I think you were pretty much just making stuff up there.

Albert - suggesting horribly anti-town ideas, interactions with Yos, possibly faked late appearance.

Sure, I disagree with many of his stratagy ideas. However, my opinion of him is the same one you yourself stated several pages ago:

perfect position for him. Town, but doesn't really know what's what imo

What, exactally, has changed your opinion since then? Or are you just throwing whatever you can at the wall to see if it sticks?

I change my mind a lot. I can't answer this adequately because as of right now I find Albert townlike,

Well, it's one thing to change your mind, but you changed your mind in a lightning speed way just to match some paranoid conspericy theory you had, and now you can't even explain why. Makes me think you were just trying to invent a case against me and Xdaamo because we were both suspicious of you. Between your weak attack against me, your lies and misrepesentations about Xdaamo, and your sudden and switch from trusting Albert to thinking he was scum, the whole thing looks more like a cobbeled together attempt to put suspicion on to people who stand in your way then like an honest attempt to find scum.

You know what, this entire post of Guardian's been full of paranoia and OMGUS attacks against people who doubted him earlier in the game.

Paranoia, possibly. OMGUS, I don't think so.

Oh? So it's coincidence that your two main suspects for the entire game, me and Xdaamo, were also the first two people to put together attackes or express suspicious against you back in the start of the game?

I wanted someone I knew was pro-town and would do a good job as director. Only I fit the bill.

It's not that I suspect you for running for director; it's that I think the tactics you used were scummy, which were basically to try and accuse your opponents of being scum just so you would win the election.

[Guardian]

Here again, Addressing Yos's attacks like it's my job...
Post 863 this time.

Yos, you really want me to address that? *grumble grumble*

Yes, as I expained in that post several reasons I suspect you, and you never responded to it other then to kind of agree with it in a wierd way, I certanly would like you to adress that.

Meh, ok, just did.

Yos2 is highly suspect as well. I don't buy the explanation. I think he was being investigated, I think he knew he would turn up scum, and I think he pulled this as a last ditch effort to survive.

(shrug) You can think whatever you want. I've told you what I know

I STILL see no reason to believe Yos's computer was hacked. What am I missing?

I will say one thing; your theory that I faked the whole thing just to stop Xdaamo's investigation of me has one very large hole in it.

During hour 4, Off The Mark had told me he was protecting CTD, not Xdaamo. There was no one protecting Xdaamo during that time. If was a scum who had wanted to stop Xdaamo's investigation of me, I could have just killed him.

You couldn't have stopped CTD's investigation, AND eyceking's speedup, AND Xdaamno's investigation though. You managed to do all three, and came up with this nice excuse "OHMIGOD, my computer was hacked." Even if you had killed Xdam, suspicion would have come to you because Xdam was investigating you and then he was killed. The way you did it, you managed to disrupt THREE actions AND saved the mafia kill. Saying that you as mafia doing this has a "very large hole in it" is highly suspect.

Also, some subtle pro-scum game theory:
-We don't want to "make use of all our lynches" if we aren't feeling good about anyone as scum. If we have only 6 people left at hour 21, with 2 (arbitrary number) of them scum, how in hell are we going to keep Jack alive?

Look, I still think our best chance of winning this is to lynch all of the scum before we run out of time.

Why not help Jack find the bomb? Really, why not? I think if we play this well we almost have a better chance of doing that then finding scum. It will be very hard to do that if we have a scum director though.

If it gets to hour 24, and we haven't lynched all the scum, and we haven't somehow gotten Jack to disarm the bomb, we lose.

Very true, so why not disarm the bomb again?

And frankly, as of yet, we've gotten absolutly no actionable intellegence to help Jack out, and Jack's already been hurt. If anyone's got any ideas of what we can do to help us reach the "disarm the bomb" win condition, speak up, but I'm not going to count on it at the moment.

Put good players in all the agency roles, listen to the intel, help Jack, win the prize. It doesn't seem complicated to me. The longer this game goes on, the more the agency roles are important. And the more important it is for us to have able bodied townies around we can plug into roles. Your idea of using every available lynch will severely cripple the town's ability to

protect

Jack, never mind find the bomb.

Meanwhile, all the scum have to do in order to win is to keep one of them alive long enough to run out the clock, and then they win. I think that's probably what they're trying to do, in fact; that would explain why they're hacking and disrupting us instead of killing us.

OR kill jack. I think this is complete misdirection and you are trying to kill Jack, and cripple and confuse the town.

If we fail to make use of all our lynching chances, if we only get 5, or 4, or whatever lynches off before hour 24, what do you think the odds are of us catching all the scum on time? If we play it your way, if we take it safe and easy and only lynch when we're sure, sure, there might still be 7 or 8 people left late in the game, but if 1 of them is scum, and we don't find him in time, we lose.

If we lynch all the townies, how are we going to utilize all the power roles? We won't be able to. Lynching for lynching's sake is a bad play in this game, imo.

-The White house was OBV OBV speed up the FBI -- and you almost didn't want us to do it. Wtf? With a sped up FBI, we will profit much more now.

Ok, I already responded to this in the post I asked you to respond to earlier, and you've still ignored.

Not anymore, I adressed it...

And your case here is even weaker now, as the scum apparently have the ability to disrput long-term actions like the white house thing (like they just did).

Yeah, that's true... they do have that ability.... WHEN A SCUM IS DIRECTOR....

-Also, assuming which terrost groups did it is highly suspect. UA pointed this out right quick, and kudos for that -- Yos could have been misleading us here.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm trying to speculate and figure stuff out based on the hints the mod has been giving us in the thread. If we want to help Jack, it's pretty obveous from the mod's posts that at some point we're going to want to figure out which group is behind the planning, and I can only think that the two mod reports of other terrorist activity (the oil tanker thing, and the spy satalite thing) are supposed to be some kind of hint to help us figure out stuff.

Since when have you wanted to help Jack? Up until this bit, it seems you've been much more concerned with voting off players at every opportunity and ignoring the Jack win condition.

Again, you're big on critisizing, but I'm just trying to figure out stuff here. Do you have any better ideas on what's going on here?

Yeah, I do. You're scum, we need a town director, and we need to start helping Jack and using lynches much more judiciously.

Also, I cannot believe no-one brought this up in my absence -- SIA's SHOULD target the deputy. Deputy = potentially scummy player. I have had NO PM communication with the mod or anyone else all game. If someone had been monitoring that, I would be cleared by now, .

That's really, really dumb, Guardian.

Ohmibad. Proven townies = really really dumb. Sorry for suggesting it.[/sarcasm]

The only thing the SIA's detect are communicatiosn sent from a player to a mod. And I'm sure that any reasonably intellegent scum group that you were a part of would have had someone lower key send in any scum actions, not someone that everyone is as suspicious of as you.

Who knows how many scum there are? And who knows who the SIAs would think is scummy. I disagree.

Besides, just earlier in this post, you were trying to claim that I made up the whole "hacking" thing. If that were true, then it would appear that the scum haven't done ANYTHING yet this game, so how would that "clear" you anyway?

OK, that is a good point. I think the scum are waiting to use their kill for some reason.

In fact, I think this "Oh, if a SIA's been watching me that would clear me!" line was a slip; it sounds like you know that the hacking thing DID happen, and you also know it was one of your scum-buddies and not you who did it.

Negative.

I also think that you're trying to get the SIA's to say who they are targeting, so you and your scum buddies know which one of you should send in orders in the future.

fos:Guardian

Nope. Just that if one of them had been targeting me, that'd have been really nice.

UA should be in an investigative role -- CIA or FBI. The man is town. Korran should be crypto -- also town.

Um...Korran has been lurking for most of the game. I'm not sure how you can claim to have a read on him, and I'm also not sure how you think it's a good idea to have a crypto who's apparenlty completly vanished, and thus is unlikely to either decode anything or share any results with us if he did.

I want a town crypto. Is that too much to ask?

And you were accusing me of suggesting anti-town stratagy. Hah. Basically every piece of stratagy advice you just gave, from "let's make the lurker a crypto" to "let's not use all of our lynches!" seemes designed to help the town lose.

I disagree for reasons stated above.

vote:Guardian

Why am I not surprised. His main detractor, and he dedicates two huge posts to finding me suspicous and voting me.


I am still feeling Yos2 as scum. There is my responses. Do what you will, town ;|.

[Albert B. Rampage]

/sign

As-Salamu Alaykum, my brother

[Guardian]

/sign

As-Salamu Alaykum, my brother

????

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree with you.

[Yosarian2]

I STILL see no reason to believe Yos's computer was hacked. What am I missing?

Again, believe whatever you want. Hopefully if we can find and lynch, or catch in the act, the scum hacker, I'll be cleared.

]You couldn't have stopped CTD's investigation, AND eyceking's speedup, AND Xdaamno's investigation though. You managed to do all three, and came up with this nice excuse "OHMIGOD, my computer was hacked." Even if you had killed Xdam, suspicion would have come to you because Xdam was investigating you and then he was killed.

Your whole explination for why I was faking the "hacked" thing was that if I was scum I would have had to in order to avoid being investigated, and that's simply not true.

Sure, if Xdaamno had been killed, it might make me look bad. But the hacking thing makes me look even worse, as you've just pointed out.

The way you did it, you managed to disrupt THREE actions AND saved the mafia kill. Saying that you as mafia doing this has a "very large hole in it" is highly suspect.

What do you mean "saved" the mafia kill? The maifa can kill every 4 hours. It's hour 5 now. The mafia could have killed twice by now, unless they were doing something else instead. Besides, if I was a scum faking the whole hacking thing, then why wouldn't I have faked that and killed at the same time?

Also, some subtle pro-scum game theory:
-We don't want to "make use of all our lynches" if we aren't feeling good about anyone as scum. If we have only 6 people left at hour 21, with 2 (arbitrary number) of them scum, how in hell are we going to keep Jack alive?

Look, I still think our best chance of winning this is to lynch all of the scum before we run out of time.

Why not help Jack find the bomb? Really, why not? I think if we play this well we almost have a better chance of doing that then finding scum. It will be very hard to do that if we have a scum director though.

Eh? What makes you think we'll have a "better chance" of finding the nuke then of finding scum? Unless you know more then I do, I don't think we have any way of knowing what our chances of finding the nuke are, at all.

Again, like I said several times, I'm more then willing to listen to any suggstions about how to help Jack find the bomb, and we probably should do both at the same time. I really don't think we should just give up on the standard "find and lynch the scum" win condition; missing a lynch in this game is just as bad as a no-lynch in a normal game. Worse, even, as the time we have to win this game in is very limited.

If it gets to hour 24, and we haven't lynched all the scum, and we haven't somehow gotten Jack to disarm the bomb, we lose.

Very true, so why not disarm the bomb again?

I'd love to disarm the bomb. I just have absolutly no idea what our odds of doing that sucessfully are, and I don't really want to put all our eggs in that basket at this point in time.

And frankly, as of yet, we've gotten absolutly no actionable intellegence to help Jack out, and Jack's already been hurt. If anyone's got any ideas of what we can do to help us reach the "disarm the bomb" win condition, speak up, but I'm not going to count on it at the moment.

Put good players in all the agency roles, listen to the intel, help Jack, win the prize. It doesn't seem complicated to me. The longer this game goes on, the more the agency roles are important. And the more important it is for us to have able bodied townies around we can plug into roles. Your idea of using every available lynch will severely cripple the town's ability to

protect

Jack, never mind find the bomb.

Agency rolls? Ok, what agency rolls and abilies are you suggesting we use to find out where the bomb is and who the terrorists are, and what positions are you suggesting we lose in order to do that?

Meanwhile, all the scum have to do in order to win is to keep one of them alive long enough to run out the clock, and then they win. I think that's probably what they're trying to do, in fact; that would explain why they're hacking and disrupting us instead of killing us.

OR kill jack. I think this is complete misdirection and you are trying to kill Jack, and cripple and confuse the town.

Well, yes, that's true, if they kill Jack they also win, unless we lynch them all before they do that. You keep talking about "protecting Jack", and I'm not sure how you're suggesting we do that, exactally. Again, if you have specific suggestions, rather then just vauge attacks, make them.

If we fail to make use of all our lynching chances, if we only get 5, or 4, or whatever lynches off before hour 24, what do you think the odds are of us catching all the scum on time? If we play it your way, if we take it safe and easy and only lynch when we're sure, sure, there might still be 7 or 8 people left late in the game, but if 1 of them is scum, and we don't find him in time, we lose.

If we lynch all the townies, how are we going to utilize all the power roles? We won't be able to. Lynching for lynching's sake is a bad play in this game, imo.

Well, no, we wouldn't be able to utilize all the power roles, that's true. But if we can find the scum, that dosn't matter, does it?

Besides, this all seems way too convienent here. Seems like you just don't want us to lynch because you know if we do, it'll probably be you.

And your case here is even weaker now, as the scum apparently have the ability to disrput long-term actions like the white house thing (like they just did).

Yeah, that's true... they do have that ability.... WHEN A SCUM IS DIRECTOR....

So, you're just ignoring the possibility I'm telling the truth here, huh?

Many of your arguments are circular here. I'm a scum because you don't believe me, and you don't believe me because you think I'm scum.

-Also, assuming which terrost groups did it is highly suspect. UA pointed this out right quick, and kudos for that -- Yos could have been misleading us here.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm trying to speculate and figure stuff out based on the hints the mod has been giving us in the thread. If we want to help Jack, it's pretty obveous from the mod's posts that at some point we're going to want to figure out which group is behind the planning, and I can only think that the two mod reports of other terrorist activity (the oil tanker thing, and the spy satalite thing) are supposed to be some kind of hint to help us figure out stuff.

Since when have you wanted to help Jack? Up until this bit, it seems you've been much more concerned with voting off players at every opportunity and ignoring the Jack win condition.

Like I said, we should obveously try to do both, to both help Jack and to lynch the scum. We have two ways of winning, and I was never suggesting we totally ignore Jack, just that I think we're probably better off focusing on the one that we know how to do, find and lynch scum, rather then hoping that somehow everything just comes together as far as the Jack Bauer thing goes.

Again, you're big on critisizing, but I'm just trying to figure out stuff here. Do you have any better ideas on what's going on here?

Yeah, I do. You're scum, we need a town director, and we need to start helping Jack and using lynches much more judiciously.

More circular "you're scum because you're scum" reasoning from you here.

Also, I cannot believe no-one brought this up in my absence -- SIA's SHOULD target the deputy. Deputy = potentially scummy player. I have had NO PM communication with the mod or anyone else all game. If someone had been monitoring that, I would be cleared by now, .

That's really, really dumb, Guardian.

Ohmibad. Proven townies = really really dumb. Sorry for suggesting it.[/sarcasm]

Um...did you actually read the rest of what I wrote? Besides, directing investigative rolls, especally ones that the scum can avoid if they know who the rolls are targeting, is very, very scummy.

The only thing the SIA's detect are communicatiosn sent from a player to a mod. And I'm sure that any reasonably intellegent scum group that you were a part of would have had someone lower key send in any scum actions, not someone that everyone is as suspicious of as you.

Who knows how many scum there are? And who knows who the SIAs would think is scummy. I disagree.

Um...you disagree with what? I was just stating a fact. No matter if the SIA's got any messages coming from anyone or not, it could not possibly "clear" anyone. The most it could do was to clear someone of being the scum hacker, but you were just earlier trying to insist that that scum role dosn't even exist.

Besides, just earlier in this post, you were trying to claim that I made up the whole "hacking" thing. If that were true, then it would appear that the scum haven't done ANYTHING yet this game, so how would that "clear" you anyway?

OK, that is a good point. I think the scum are waiting to use their kill for some reason.

That dosn't make any sense either, but whatever.

In fact, I think this "Oh, if a SIA's been watching me that would clear me!" line was a slip; it sounds like you know that the hacking thing DID happen, and you also know it was one of your scum-buddies and not you who did it.

Negative.

Sound reasoning there.

I also think that you're trying to get the SIA's to say who they are targeting, so you and your scum buddies know which one of you should send in orders in the future.

fos:Guardian

Nope. Just that if one of them had been targeting me, that'd have been really nice.

HOW? HOW WOULD IT HAVE BEEN REALLY NICE??? Because that would mean that they wouldn't have been targeting your hacker scumbuddy?

And again, trying to direct SIA targets/find out who the SIA's are targeting is really the one of the main reasons I re-voted for you here.

I want a town crypto. Is that too much to ask?

Do you know who all the pro-town people are? Also, while he's fortunaly been replaced now, it would have obv been absolutly terrible to have a lurking crypto who would never have even sent in the order to decrypt information because he wasn't around.

vote:Guardian

Why am I not surprised. His main detractor, and he dedicates two huge posts to finding me suspicous and voting me.

Um, I've "dedicated two huge posts" to attacking you because you've been looking incredibly scummy all game. So I explained why I think you're scummy, and voted for you. It's called "scum hunting".

[Yosarian2]

I agree with you.

Um...you agree with who about what, exactally?

[Kinetic]

Alright, I haven't been in this game very long, but I can say this behavior I've noticed from Guardian:

assigning an enthusiastic but newer and maybe easier to read player would be better? If CdB or Yos gets assigned "mafia" roles, I could see them really screwing us over. So, I'll start off with vote: YogurtBandit

Post #6, Guardian
Guardian attempts to assign a newbie to Director.

unvote vote: Guardian. I don't want Yogurt to be director if he doesn't want to be / doesn't think he'd do a good job, and I think being director would be awesome, I think I would be very competent at it, and I think that it would be one of the most fun experiences playing mafia ever. And I'm pro-town Wink.

We definitely don't want a director who doesn't want to be director; when you post after this post, say if you would be willing/interested to be director or not, that will narrow down the field and give us some info to go on, too.

Post #57, Guardian
Guardian actively campaigns for Director:

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

And the throwing a lot of good ideas around in and of itself isn't scummy, but you are obviously campaigning for director; anyone who really wants to be director looks scummy to me; I look scummy to me, because director is a really important role, and scum would love to get it for themselves.

Post #66,67, Guardian
Odd, suspicious posts. The beginning of Guardian's second play. It seems here he knows he can't win Director, but he is now trying to taint the position because ANYONE who wants to be Director is OBVIOUSLY scum...

Meh. I can understand how the connections I am getting between YB and Korran may looks scummy from the outside. I am town though, and I think I would do a good job as director, and from the way they have acted towards me, I am pretty sure YB and Korran are town as well.

Post #126, Guardian
Guardian attempting to "hide among the sheep". It seems to me to be very suspicious that Guardian latched onto YB and my old player, Korran, very quickly with very little play from either of them. With YB's confirmed town, I think it actually makes Guardian MORE suspicious. I wouldn't think scum would purposely align himself with scum, especially with such odd behavior from both of them... The only thing I can gather is he KNEW they were town because he was scum, and because of that, he was trying to hide among them.

I am not sure. I have a healthy level of suspicion on everyone besides myself and YB and Korran. CTD I am most suspicious of, I guess, but I do not have particularly good reason for those suspicions, and this last post of his strikes me as helpful to the town.

Post #162, Guardian
Guardian continues to push this "connection" between these three players... It just seems so suspicious to me.

I lack the time needed to adequately explain how I feel about Yos right now, re: his thoughts about making me deputy.

Post #171, Guardian
Guardian seems to be getting very OMGUSy and anxious. His very scummy behavior has not only lost him the Director position, but has regulated his "partners" to relatively useless positions.

YB and Korran chose to associate with me. Xdaamno has been pushing suspicion on me all game. I have no control over either of those things.

Post #241, Guardian
Actually... you have been pushing that association Guardian, not YB or Korran... in fact Korran basically rarely posted, and when he did it was just emotional preteen jibberish. How you can read anything out of that, you must be psychic... or scum...

I'll provide a "LoT" (list of trust), purely based on gut feeling:

knows what he's doing, and is probably town:
UltimaAvalon
CrashTextDummie
Guardian

doesn't know what he's doing, but is probably town:
Albert B. Rampage
Korran
YogurtBandit

in the middle/undecided:
Spambot
Eyceking
Yosarian2 (but doesn't matter for this, really)
Xdaamno
ChannelDelibird

don't trust:
Off the Mark

I get this horrible feeling Yos Albert and Xdaamno are scum together. Look at the key positions they fill. I am picking up on some interactions, too.

Albert, it's hard to say my reasons for being suspicious are imbecile when I haven't even posted them yet....

Post #464, #524, #532
The rapid change between the first and second post is just... funny really. Albert has been SO TOWN to you for the whole game, then as soon as he gets a useful position, OMG He's Scum!

And in response to #532, you STILL haven't posted good reasons for anything...

-----

This isn't by any means comprehensive of Guardian's behaivior this game, but I can't help but feel he is the scummiest person alive in this game.

Vote: Guardian