In post 149, bewilderbeast wrote:@saad Thank you!
Even if I was scummy (which I am not), I'm just unused to this environment. Everyone assumes I'm trying to be manipulative or I'm mentally unbalanced
I'm just overexcited, if that's how you'd like to put it.
But I see what you guys are saying: I'm very suspicious (I can see why), my reasoning and posts make no sense (I can see why), and basically I'm accusing someone for no reason. I apologize for making this game seem like an insane asylum.
The reason I think Bewilderbeast is scum is because he strongly implied being scum buddies with Saad, twice! He asked about lying in one of his first posts, his content is erratic and his votes were highly reactionary. Beast hasn't really paid much attention to any player other than Saad. His last post appeared to be an admission of guilt, and then he seems to have checked out of the game (until just now). Saad has had no content prior to this, and since then has largely declared Bewilderbeast an innocent town despite offering no basis for this. The idea of a Bewilderbeast/Saad scum team is
very
compelling for me.
Looking at 76:
I have an issue with what Bewilderbeast said.
@heyboxgaming
@saad
First off: this is something pretty funny. I think whenever I voted saad, I put Saab do it didn't show up in the official vote count. Also, I must say that I am quite unused to forum mafia: this is not a lie. It's completely different from face-to-face but is still very fun. The RVS part is very confusing and even if I was mafia, I don't completely understand what I'm doing. I honestly feel saad is suspicious, now more because he is defending me, being so horribly bad at maintaining an unlynched position. Saad probably assumes that I am a mafia, knows he is too, and is trying to help me.
If I was to be town, I don't even understand how to defend myself from people wanting to lynch me. Please help.
Beast made this post @Saad. Pretty unusual if he then votes Saad in the same post. But that's minor compared to the issues this post has.
"Saad probably assumes that I am a mafia, knows he is too, and is trying to help me."
We established in Beast's #82 that he is no stranger to mafia and is aware that the mafia know each other. This comment says that a mafia-aligned Saad 'assumes' Beast is mafia too. This doesn't make sense, because mafia don't need to assume who their buddy is, they already know. Beast is aware of this but he still posted it as a basis for his vote. (Beast also implies here that a town!Saad believes in scum!Beast, but that town!Saad is inexplicably assisting scum!Beast, but if that's the case...why vote for Saad?)
i like to keep games separate and isolated.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you here. In other games I have played, I have often found people make comments like "Oh but I always do xyz as town" or "Player M always does xyz as scum, this game they did abc, so therefore they are town". More often than not, I have found scum or the buddies of a scum player making this argument as an excuse for their poor content in the current game.
@Coldwine/Jake
It's very important for town players to appear town to other town players
I don't specifically agree with this. If you are playing a good town game, you will appear town through no additional effort of your own.
Non content/meta content gets spoilered.
Spoiler:
Look at the town modus operandi:
Lynch scum!
Look at the scum modus operandi:
Not get lynched/not lynch a buddy.
The difference in mindset becomes apparent from your play.
Town is looking to catch scum and wants to make a good argument to convince other players. So they tend to be clear, have reasonable votes that are explained, have reasonable cases that can be understood, so that they can convince other players to make a good choice.
Scum is merely looking to avoid trouble. They want to defend themselves and their buddies. They ultimately have to lie to justify their vote. If their lie is caught, they are dead. So they want to be ambiguous, have votes that look good on the surface, and have cases that either sheep another players hard work or are in some other way fabricated or weak.
If you are living the towny lifestyle, it will naturally be harder for both town and scum to make a case on you because your votes are good and your cases are strong. You can easily change your opinon and your vote because you aren't hindered by what you said previously or having to avoid stepping over your own lies. Therefore, by playing town, you appear town.
If you go out of your way to appear town, this is counterproductive - you are wasting town's time and attention by making posts that 'look good' but don't actually advance the state of the game. You may even be called out for posting 'non content posts', faking content to appear like you are contributing, and lynched for it.
The best way to appear town is to make a great case that lynches a scum.
If you could see both town or scum being equally likely to do something, we can't consider it a factor. It's a null.
***
@Highspace
I'm confused by your random comments in 104 and 106. If you have something to say, say it. If you don't have anything to say, then don't pretend that you do.
I also asked you some very direct questions in my 78, specifically how you seem to change opinion on Saad in a very short space from 'mafia' to 'not mafia'. Could you please clarify this?
147
"lol" is not an appropriate response to a genuine question on wtf you are doing. You made weird comments that appear to be based on something but refused to clarify. Can you?
***
@Saad
also unvote from bewilderbeast please. he's an easy lynch and he is also town so please abort bandwagon.
Many, many players believe otherwise. Can you please explain why you're so confident Beast is town?
fast bw on him, his excited demeanor. he just seems eager to help and i think people are mis reading him. he is town, a villager townie i may add who is just excited about playing his first game of forum mafia
also the fact that you, (my scumread) has jumped onto this bw also makes me think he is town.
Five smileys is excessive. Excessive!!
Again, please explain your Beast town read.
I'm also super interested in your apparent scum read on Jake, since I don't recall you mentioning this previously. Why do you think Jake is scum?
***
@Seraphim
I haven't seen you participate in the discussion. There has been a lot going on and other than your comment that you like to play 'holistically' and that you were holding your scum read of Saad close to your chest, I have no clue what you think. Do you have any opinion on the current situation? Current read on Saad? Opinion about Beast? Reads on other players?
I don't have any good reads on anyone yet. Jake feels slightly suspicious to me, but I'm not really sure. Highspace seems a little off, but I have no definitive town or scummy reads.
@Sky_Paladin
That game rule was unfamiliar to me: I did not know that the mafia knew each other until the first night which comes after the day on forums.
In post 154, bewilderbeast wrote:@Sky_Paladin
That game rule was unfamiliar to me: I did not know that the mafia knew each other until the first night which comes after the day on forums.
Contradictory to post #82
Although I like post number #152 I cant say I disagree.
Also, town read on paladin after the fantastic post that was #151 and I support your case that we may have found our two scum buddies already.
Although, if we lynch beast and he flips green.... we don't have a lead on saad anymore, Personally I believe that either paladin or myself will be the night kill as everybody else seems a little bit over the place, although coldwine is a possibility
So we should plan ahead. We shouldent put all of our eggs in the beast & saad basket.
If he did flip green, who would be the next likely wagon?
In post 156, Jake from State Farm wrote:But your post 88 doesn't even make any sense, I explained why even. Your reason for scum reading me is basically shit
In post 154, bewilderbeast wrote:@Sky_Paladin
That game rule was unfamiliar to me: I did not know that the mafia knew each other until the first night which comes after the day on forums.
Contradictory to post #82
Although I like post number #152 I cant say I disagree.
Also, town read on paladin after the fantastic post that was #151 and I support your case that we may have found our two scum buddies already.
Although, if we lynch beast and he flips green.... we don't have a lead on saad anymore, Personally I believe that either paladin or myself will be the night kill as everybody else seems a little bit over the place, although coldwine is a possibility
So we should plan ahead. We shouldent put all of our eggs in the beast & saad basket.
If he did flip green, who would be the next likely wagon?
flipping green = flipping as townie i presume
also hold your damn horse on that tr on paladin! i wouldn't be so sure yet on him/her. also why are we discussing night kill possibilities at this stage? bewilder is not dying, end of.
In post 156, Jake from State Farm wrote:But your post 88 doesn't even make any sense, I explained why even. Your reason for scum reading me is basically shit
no it's not
It really is, for reasons I already gave, but I'll give you even more reasons why its bad
In post 88, saad wrote:1. its an easy wagon to jump off if no one follows it seriously and can easily vote a scummy player without being suspected
1. The fact by definition it wasn't even a wagon
2. Since its not a wagon, by definition its not an easy wagon
3. You neglect to consider other options as to the point of my vote
In post 88, saad wrote:2. it's a potential wagon, some people are starting to fos highspace. this vote seems scum motivated.
This is a absolute lie as nobody was fos'ing him.somebody pointed out that people asked him questions but as I pointed out asking questions =/= fos'ing him
So yeah, shit reasons
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
In post 154, bewilderbeast wrote:@Sky_Paladin
That game rule was unfamiliar to me: I did not know that the mafia knew each other until the first night which comes after the day on forums.
Contradictory to post #82
Although I like post number #152 I cant say I disagree.
Also, town read on paladin after the fantastic post that was #151 and I support your case that we may have found our two scum buddies already.
Although, if we lynch beast and he flips green.... we don't have a lead on saad anymore, Personally I believe that either paladin or myself will be the night kill as everybody else seems a little bit over the place, although coldwine is a possibility
So we should plan ahead. We shouldent put all of our eggs in the beast & saad basket.
If he did flip green, who would be the next likely wagon?
flipping green = flipping as townie i presume
also hold your damn horse on that tr on paladin! i wouldn't be so sure yet on him/her. also why are we discussing night kill possibilities at this stage? bewilder is not dying, end of.
This is exactly what a scum buddy would say. Your being really defensive and its letting in on your act.
In fact this whole post reeks of scum.
1 you say not to trust the person who is having a scum read on you yet you have said nothing to counter the claims
2 You say beast will not die and that's a fact, a major suspect to be scum.
3 and you don't want us to plan our next kill in advance while we have as many active players as possible.
so, saad. have I misinterpreted something? Am I wrong? Because if so its in your best interest to prove me wrong
In post 156, Jake from State Farm wrote:But your post 88 doesn't even make any sense, I explained why even. Your reason for scum reading me is basically shit
no it's not
It really is, for reasons I already gave, but I'll give you even more reasons why its bad
In post 88, saad wrote:1. its an easy wagon to jump off if no one follows it seriously and can easily vote a scummy player without being suspected
1. The fact by definition it wasn't even a wagon
2. Since its not a wagon, by definition its not an easy wagon
3. You neglect to consider other options as to the point of my vote
In post 88, saad wrote:2. it's a potential wagon, some people are starting to fos highspace. this vote seems scum motivated.
This is a absolute lie as nobody was fos'ing him.somebody pointed out that people asked him questions but as I pointed out asking questions =/= fos'ing him
So yeah, shit reasons
1. it was the start of a wagon, since people were starting to suspect him (coldwine began questioning him)
2. i just explained how it was the start of a wagon and how people would have been prepared to jump on it
3. the reason you gave was a gut feeling. how do i question that???
no it's not a lie. asking questions is building up an opinion on someone, and you usually question someone who you aren't sure is town i.e. you think they have a chance of being scum.
In post 154, bewilderbeast wrote:@Sky_Paladin
That game rule was unfamiliar to me: I did not know that the mafia knew each other until the first night which comes after the day on forums.
Contradictory to post #82
Although I like post number #152 I cant say I disagree.
Also, town read on paladin after the fantastic post that was #151 and I support your case that we may have found our two scum buddies already.
Although, if we lynch beast and he flips green.... we don't have a lead on saad anymore, Personally I believe that either paladin or myself will be the night kill as everybody else seems a little bit over the place, although coldwine is a possibility
So we should plan ahead. We shouldent put all of our eggs in the beast & saad basket.
If he did flip green, who would be the next likely wagon?
flipping green = flipping as townie i presume
also hold your damn horse on that tr on paladin! i wouldn't be so sure yet on him/her. also why are we discussing night kill possibilities at this stage? bewilder is not dying, end of.
This is exactly what a scum buddy would say. Your being really defensive and its letting in on your act.
In fact this whole post reeks of scum.
1 you say not to trust the person who is having a scum read on you yet you have said nothing to counter the claims
2 You say beast will not die and that's a fact, a major suspect to be scum.
3 and you don't want us to plan our next kill in advance while we have as many active players as possible.
so, saad. have I misinterpreted something? Am I wrong? Because if so its in your best interest to prove me wrong
i am defending my town read. i tr him due to his excited demeanor and he is voluntarily giving us information. he is not hiding anything imo.
jake? ive explained a few times why i think hes mafia.
i will do everything in my power to make sure beast is not lynched at this point. i'm sure he is town and i don't want a fellow townie lynched.
as for that, well why are we thinking of lynching so soon? we have like 11 days left of d1 (lol) so why should we be making a possible kill lists at this stage? it doesn't help us since as i said we are not lynching bewilderbeast. lets try and lynch a mafia goon then look at kill lists.
No, 1 vote is not a wagon, 2 votes isn't a wagon. A wagon doesn't form until you are have more than 50% of the required votes.
Just because somebody asked him a question or a series of questions, doesn't mean a wagon is going to form.
2. No you didn't really and you have absolutely no idea what people would have done. You made a baseless assumption that people would vote him, but as it is PROVEN in.the thread, nobody announced they were fos'ing him, let alone scum reading him enough to drop a vote. You are reaching here
3. Yes the reason I gave was gut, but that's not what I meant. What I meant is there are other reasons to vote somebody besides wanting to lynch them. I typically drop a reasonless vote in every game I play in. I do it for multiple reasons. 1. See how that person reacts, he gave me nothing and kinda of ignored it (still trying to wrap my head around that cause its literally never happened before) 2. I wanted to see how others reacted, only odd reaction I have seen is from you.
So yeah, you didn't refute shit and I'm done with this conversation, you'll just make me vote you instead and I.don't really want to derail the wagon off the guy who has essentially claimed scum.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
In post 164, Jake from State Farm wrote:No, 1 vote is not a wagon, 2 votes isn't a wagon. A wagon doesn't form until you are have more than 50% of the required votes.
Just because somebody asked him a question or a series of questions, doesn't mean a wagon is going to form.
2. No you didn't really and you have absolutely no idea what people would have done. You made a baseless assumption that people would vote him, but as it is PROVEN in.the thread, nobody announced they were fos'ing him, let alone scum reading him enough to drop a vote. You are reaching here
3. Yes the reason I gave was gut, but that's not what I meant. What I meant is there are other reasons to vote somebody besides wanting to lynch them. I typically drop a reasonless vote in every game I play in. I do it for multiple reasons. 1. See how that person reacts, he gave me nothing and kinda of ignored it (still trying to wrap my head around that cause its literally never happened before) 2. I wanted to see how others reacted, only odd reaction I have seen is from you.
So yeah, you didn't refute shit and I'm done with this conversation, you'll just make me vote you instead and I.don't really want to derail the wagon off the guy who has essentially claimed scum.
one vote is a potential wagon, a potential wagon is still a wagon of sorts.
I thought I already explained my read switch, I'll assume it wasn't elaborate enough. My initial read on Saad is scum because of his first post. The intent of his post was to imply that he's part of 'the team' and he doesn't know the mafia. Its a weak read and far-fetched interpretation and I am content with it. His further posts (about bewilder being town) outweigh his initial post, and unless he is scumbuddies with bewilder (which I really doubt), he would try to convince the town to vote out bewilder as bewilder is close to being lynched as well. It's possible that he did it for towncred but I wouldn't count on it. Why don't I think they are scum buddies? Bewilder's push on Saad. I don't see mafia pushing on their partner, and if Saad were to be lynched, and Bewilder doesn't get killed, its fishy. It's almost a guaranteed lose for them.
---
Also, 'lol' is absolutely an appropriate response. I find it funny that he's bothered by those 2 comments. If I wanted to clarify, I would have.
I facepalmed you because you just shows how bad your argument was. now you can basically attack anyone who places a singular vote on somebody with the same logicz when the whole point of this game is to vote people and pressure them. Would you rather I voted you or your town read? Cause those were the only people who had votes. I find it odd that you weren't suspicious of the people who voted you or your town read but suspicious of somebody who went against the grain and voted who they were suspicious of. That's pretty moronic if you ask me.
Robbed of a scummy for what had to be the best unvote in mafiascum history.
the whole game is dumb and we don't know why we're good at it and nobody knows what is going on and we're all going to have to accept that
But if your 100% sure beast is town, then... why dont you have a town read on paladin? he/she has been very useful and has contributed muchly IMO
thoughts?
Also the reason i want the lynch to happen quickly is because everybody seems really all over the place in terms of votes, some people are still left to vote
The more confusion, the easier it must be for the scum.
Also, can you understand why we all have a scum read on beast?
Also, new read on anarchist for scum,
If saad is scum (maybe) then i would hedge my bets on anarchist being scum, reasons for that i wont say at this point as I don't like to over extend.
Will update this read as time goes by!
@Highspace
Fair point, decent reasoning, although its thinking like that, that the scum want us to think, its one of them dang paradoxes haha.
I'm not sure what to think of heybox. I'm reading his arrogance as town. (Expecting to be killed - "Because if so its in your best interest to prove me wrong"). I don't think I can explain beyond that. However, his reasoning on post 161 sounds like he's using weak or false reasoning to scumread saad, and I don't understand why he's doing it. Also heybox, are you saying a quick vote doesn't cause confusion?
I'm cringing at the wagon argument. Someone getting wagoned isn't alignment indicative in itself. Starting a wagon isn't alignment indicative either, so whether something is technically a potential wagon or not, who cares?
In post 172, HighSpace wrote:I'm not sure what to think of heybox. I'm reading his arrogance as town. (Expecting to be killed - "Because if so its in your best interest to prove me wrong"). I don't think I can explain beyond that. However, his reasoning on post 161 sounds like he's using weak or false reasoning to scumread saad, and I don't understand why he's doing it. Also heybox, are you saying a quick vote doesn't cause confusion?
I'm cringing at the wagon argument. Someone getting wagoned isn't alignment indicative in itself. Starting a wagon isn't alignment indicative either, so whether something is technically a potential wagon or not, who cares?
A quick vote based off something like RVS reasoning is detrimental to us as a town, a quick vote where im 98% sure he is scum? why delay?
also, my questions & accusations always have a meaning behind them, don't you worry. instead of trying to read scum where there is not, how about we do something proactive same can be said about the silly wagon argument above, jeez guys lets work together here!
Sorry for falling off the face of the earth, I should be good to go now that I'm done recording my band's album. A lot of stuff has happened and I can't quite parse through all of it because there are so many different threads and I'm pretty poor at doing the sort of things Paladin is doing...that systematic laying out of reasons etc...but anyway, lemme get to some stuff I find interesting.
In post 109, Coldwine wrote:It's very important for town players to appear town to other town players
Sadly I don't agree with this. Town players shouldnt care about their appearances, because then that limits their natural actions/reactions. Town should only care about figuring out who's scum and who's town.
This is not completely true. Definitely town should have hunting scum as their first priority but they should definitely care about how they present themselves depending on the context. A good power role play, especially if one is a cop, is to try and stay off the scum's radar which mean not being as outspoken as normal. Also, appearing town is a must if you want anyone to listen to you; in many respect this game can be more of a clash of personalities than a clash of wits and reason so being able to maintain a town "persona" can be useful for town and scum in equal measures.
it's poor word choice on his part, there is nothing malicious about it, he's not 'admitting' to anything, but nice to see you're twisting it that way though.
I am having a really difficult time wrapping my head around bewilder's play but I am not convinced fully that his post was a scumslip. His posts are completely bizarre and inconsistent, he has said some wacky things. However, I don't think this points to him as scum per se; in fact, I agree with Saad that his play definitely rings more of inexperienced town than scum. If we're going to lynch him, I feel that it will be more policy than anything which I'm not sure I'm fully comfortable with. I don't like his wagon, he looks like lynchbait and I think scum are pushing it. That's my thought.
Vote: HighSpace
This, on the other hand, is some prime lynch material, some well cooked MAFIA LAMB CHOPS.
First, as I always do when I try to start a wagon, I would suggest taking a look at HS's ISO. It is highly enlightening.
While doing so, take a look at his activity so far, which has been to push bewilder. Assuming that he is (highly entertaining, mind you!) D1 lynchbait due to his erratic play, HS if scum has good reason to be on the wagon right now.
He's had a strange interaction with Anarchist which leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. Anarchist's reaction seems pretty genuine but HS's initiation and subsequent response doesn't seem honest or accomplish anything.
I also don't think he's been scumhunting or engaging with the game much and seems more content to offer summaries of other people's play than provide content of his own.
Take a look at his ISO and tell me what you think.
heybox is town, I think Jake is town, Anarchist is pretty town, bewilder is town.
Coldwine hasn't posted enough, I am very iffy about Sky because I feel he should know better about bewilder's play, ditto on Saad, though I do feel better about him than before.
same can be said about the silly wagon argument above, jeez guys lets work together here!