8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Seraphim]

Why do you think sotty will flip town?

[Kagami]

In large part because greyICE wants to lynch him.

Why do you think he's scum, and why do you think grey is town?

[Seraphim]

In large part because greyICE wants to lynch him.

Why do you think he's scum, and why do you think grey is town?

I explained why in my last post which you responded to and have apparently read except for that part. Did you find that response unappealing or unsatisfactory?

Also, why do you think greyICE is scum, before I explain my town read on him. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

[Metal Sonic]

I will be glad if someone can point out what is fundamentally wrong with seraphim posts before I reveal the answer later in my daily wall

[Kagami]

I read that, serephim. It's not compelling. I agree that sotty's play isn't amazing, but I've seen far worse from town being tunneled into the ground.

GI's posting is bizarrely inconsistent, which is ironic given he says the same of sotty. The best point he makes is the token thing.

He complains that sotty is willing to town block with players who haven't even posted against, pointing to a list that is probably just people sotty likes/has played with before. Later hoopla shows up later saying she'll sheep GI and ABR and just gamble that they're town. Hoopla gets a solid town for that because hoopla understands the need to town-block.

He should have had hoopla as town at 114, given his suspicion of sotty. Instead, there are sprinkles of "hoopla might be scum" in the token conversation and hoopla's opening is "deliberately uninteresting." He decides hoopla is town at 272 for whatever reason. I asked him about it, and apparently GI doesn't do pre-flip associations. Meanwhile, Eddie is revving a chainsaw in 258.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that. 277 is another ridiculous thing I don't think town-GI would say. "One of my townreads is scum" reads as "I'll have to 180 on one of my townreads once my scumreads are all dead."

And yes, a lot of this oddly revolves around a greyice-hoopla interaction. I think they're scum together. The early hoopla-scum sprinkles might indicate town-hoopla, but it looks like it was just distancing that grey decided not to bother with since he inexplicably has a townread from everyone.

So on to that townread. Why is greyICE town, seraphim?

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's a terrible defense, Mirror.

[Kagami]

I'm ok with a sotty lynch if we do the vengeful thing starting with day 1.

Then let's do it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, MS, wgeurts, GreyICE, ZZX, and Zar(Empire) are all town.

Meaning that the scumteam is within:
Kagami, sotty, Eddie, Hoopla, Nacho

Not exactly. If Sotty flips scum, I think there's strong evidence pointing to wgeurts, and two of the guys in who you have as scum currently.

I'm confident enough in this read to make it official.

Vote: Sotty

[EddieFenix]

I'm ok with a sotty lynch if we do the vengeful thing starting with day 1.

Then let's do it.

No. God no.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sotty's buddying of Hoopla is as scummy as anything I've read in this thread, her OMGUS of GreyIce, all her posts are basically really scummy. This is the second best lynch after Hoopla and I'm happy to put my seal of approval on it.

[Kagami]

ICE is scum, sotty will request a venge on him. He will try to wiggle out. We'll lynch him and his team will be painfully obvious from the events of today.

You of all people should be happy about that, eddie.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Please note that if Sotty flips scum, I'll be going after wgeurts tomorrow.

Kagami, you can vote for Sotty and if she really does flip town, you can vote for GreyIce tomorrow with Eddie and I won't vote you guys.

[Seraphim]

My town read on GreyICE was gut and the fact that it looked like he was scumhunting which can be very hard to fake. But that cognitive dissonance between calling sotty's scumgame legendary and then calling her a pathetic lying sack of shit later...hmmm...that was not something I saw initially so I'm glad you pointed it out. Especially since what you call his best point has been what I see to be the weakest part of his play, namely his entire push on the token thing. I think the tokens are tenuous at best, incredibly misleading at worst. Also, consulting with my team, they are a lot more unsettled with GreyICE than I am, so I guess I should look more into that seeing as your case is fairly convincing.

Unvote

ZZZX:

notes from my own peanut gallery. I'm supposed to ask you to ask GuyInFreezer for GIF's opinion on Nacho and his push on SW, as well as his (nacho's) interaction with Empire (now Zor) if that's possible.

ABR:

who is Mirror? Also, I think I would vote Hoopla with you if you're willing to go ahead with that. I've had my own sotty scumread shaken.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kagami means mirror in japanese. Since we almost have a majority, I'm fine lynching Sotty first, Seraphim. Sotty has already positioned herself to hard defend Hoopla for the rest of the game.

[GreyICE]

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

[Kagami]

I like the token argument. I do think it's strange not to find tokens critically important in a vanilla game when you start with nothing else, especially in RVS. That's probably the first thing I'd have poked at if I were here in the beginning. From another source, I'd give it more credit.

[Kagami]

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

You're serious? This makes me sad.

[Seraphim]

I'm just not sold that sotty is scum anymore and I don't think she's a good lynch today. GreyICE's push looks a lot more disingenuous looking back and sotty has not yet had a chance to "air out" and actually do anything besides play reactively. Granted, usually reactive only play is generally a scumtell but she hasn't had a chance to do otherwise...if you feel there's a strong Hoopla/sotty connection, I would much rather lynch Hoopla to confirm that connection.

[Albert B. Rampage]

G Ice, read my posts on this page, are you and I of the same mind regarding this game?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm just not sold that sotty is scum anymore and I don't think she's a good lynch today.

Don't do this. You are in a world of trouble if you deviate from Sotty now.

[EddieFenix]

ICE is scum, sotty will request a venge on him. He will try to wiggle out. We'll lynch him and his team will be painfully obvious from the events of today.

You of all people should be happy about that, eddie.

I'm not happy when I have scum by the throat, they do everything they can to sidestep and wiggle from me, when it's OBVIOUS they are scum, yet town wants to go, "let's lynch this person instead and then do this venge plan cause it'll work great." Just.... No.... Just.... Noo........

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seraphim, the only reason that I'm not outside your house with pitchforks with the others here who will gladly see you hang, is because of your precious Sotty vote and very vague similarities in our scum pool. The second is ephemeral. Words are wind. Your vote, on the other hand, is the only thing that is making me townread you, because you've posted nothing townie. You trust me on Sotty now.

[Seraphim]

don't try to push me around me, man. I have a town read on you but that doesn't mean I'm going to sheep you. I have my opinions and they are pointing away from a sotty lynch today. I might have my mind changed if an alternative story to the one Kagami is telling can be told, because I'm having a hard time getting my head out of it.

[GreyICE]

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that.

Ooh, this is juicy.

That's one of my trademark phrases, Kagami. I use that all the time, because one of the best scum tells in the whole wide world is when someone starts bitching that you're wagoning them for the "wrong reasons". "Why me, fry me" is one of the strictest rules in Mafia, and the best. And anyone who says otherwise is a shitter or scum.

You were Silverwolf? I am starting to LOVE the people showing up to this party with chainsaws.

You're serious? This makes me sad.

Well then, pay attention and you will learn something. I'll start GreyICE's school of how to fucking play mafia, except mine won't be nice and gentle like ABR's.

One of the cardinal rules of mafia is the cardinal rules of any situation where you have a guilty party. Barring utter psychopaths, guilty people know they are "supposed" to get caught. And there's very little way scum can honestly defend themselves from charges of being scum. Of course they were acting scummy, they were scum.When they start grabbing someone else and yelling "well this person was doing it too!" or "you should be going after them if you think that, not me!",

especially when they couple that with "And X wasn't really scummy at all"

then you can very safely hang them.

If you think this is wrong, you haven't been paying attention.

[Albert B. Rampage]

don't try to push me around me, man. I have a town read on you but that doesn't mean I'm going to sheep you. I have my opinions and they are pointing away from a sotty lynch today. I might have my mind changed if an alternative story to the one Kagami is telling can be told, because I'm having a hard time getting my head out of it.

No, you're not sheeping me. You voted Sotty before me. And when I placed my vote on Sotty, placing her in more danger, you started saying you're not sure and think she's town. Don't do this to me.