White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.15

theelkspeaks (4) - Regfan, Aeronaut, Zachrulez, Oversoul
Cheery Dog (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Llamarble
Psyche (2) - Antihero, theelkspeaks
Llamarble (1) - Ankamius
Zachrulez (1) - BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (3) - ika, Cheery Dog, Psyche

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, April 13, 2015, at 9:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-13 21:00:00).

[Ankamius]

Not quite entirely reserved from there.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

[Cheery Dog]

Not quite entirely reserved from there.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Llama and BBT have moved into town reads. (even though I still kind of want to lynch BBT, his determination of not having tokens been a major thing isn't helping the gameplay, but it's likely to have town thought process)
Elk's still kind of scum, but it's also still sitting as 'bad' rather than scummy, and I think that's all my team has on that matter as well.

Logic for psyche townread has been rethought and moved to null.
I still like some of Aeronaut has posted, but it's not coming often enough to solidify that read.

[Llamarble]

I didn't mean to spend so much time tonight rereading...
Ffery says she feels lost / doesn't know many of the players. She's curious what Titus has to say about ika.

This is where I am currently:
TOWN:
Llamarble

BBT - If a couple of the questionable people manage to town as hard as BBT has, we have a great shot at a perfect game.

Regfan - Performing as expected but hopefully we can eradicate all doubt this weekend.
Zach - Would appreciate a stronger scumhunting contribution but he has dropped a number of decent towntells.

I like CES' play so far. He does however have a very strong scumgame and is aware that buddying is probably the best approach to use against me.
Elk - A lot of reasonable people think he's scum, but I still find it very hard to get over 201 and 357 + his early "this wagon alarms me" show original game-searching.
If ika is scum he's playing the "sheeping my teammate" plan pretty well. A vote from this slot would be welcome, even if the read is supplied by GIF.
Eh, Psyche is playing the game but I don't see a lot of specifically hard to fake posts.

AH is a very reasonable scum alternate. I'm kinda hoping I got all three on my first try but if I didn't, AHscum wouldn't be a surprise at all.
Oversoul is a good scum alternate too. Works particularly well with Ankamius I think (see below)
Aeronaut isn't actually any worse than the two above. Absolutely still works as periphery-scum, but hmm.
Ankamius - Off on the side giving reads and reasons (which happen to be the types of arguments scum can construct readily). It's possible he saw BBT's distaste for my methods as an opening to get something rolling against me.
Cheery - Things I said yesterday hold, but the unvote post and subsequent posts do weaken my resolve a bit. I want to reevaluate more thoroughly before I consider moving my vote. Cheery, has Hoopla gotten a chance to look at this game?

Anak; Would like some reasoning or explanation behind your reads list in Post 139 specifically the reads on BTT, Oversoul, Llama and CES.

Oversoul: He felt town based on his interactions with Llamarble about the tokens; since I have a scumread on Llamarble independent of this, I'm putting more stake in this than I usually would.

Llamarble: He felt scum based on his interactions with Oversoul about the tokens. I didn't like this post either; the questions feel incredibly empty. The way he reacted to the 'scuffle' at the top of page 5 looks wooden.

This isn't as helpful as I hoped it would be.

Oversoul's interaction with me which Ank focused on and the Ank explanations Regfan requested which Oversoul 'wanted more' from are both peripheral enough that picking up on them suggests extra awareness of each other.

Vote Count 1.08

theelkspeaks (5) - Regfan, BlueBloodedToffee, Aeronaut, Zachrulez, Oversoul
Cheery Dog (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Llamarble
Psyche (2) - Antihero, Ankamius
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Psyche
Oversoul (1) - theelkspeaks

Vote Count 1.09

theelkspeaks (4) - Regfan, Aeronaut, Zachrulez, Oversoul
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Llamarble, Psyche
Psyche (3) - Antihero, Ankamius, theelkspeaks
Oversoul (1) - BlueBloodedToffee

Aeronaut and Oversoul are the best candidates for scum voting Elk.
It's still notable that nobody especially sketchy has joined the Cheery Dog wagon as yet.
Scum deciding pregame to bide their time / not get picked off of wagons they don't think will lynch wouldn't surprise me, particularly given daytalk.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, has Hoopla gotten a chance to look at this game?

Gamma's the only one that's up to date on the game in the topic.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

360 - Zach, it was simply an example of how to explain reads. I have asked you to do this multiple times and you refuse to do it.

I was showing you how easy it is to do.

Give it a try.

366 - Ika, do something.

367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing

into

a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.

368 - Aero, your strongest scum read 15 or so pages into a game is a 'sort of guttish feeling'. You're going to have to do better than that.

I'm town-reading Llamarble, Aero. You have a problem with this?

Also, if the fight between myself and Zach was 'forced' that would imply you think we're both scum, right? Because, if there is a townie between us then at least one person is fighting legitimately. It's interesting that you think there is only one scum.

373 - Ank, reads? Planning on contributing any time soon?

377 - CD, what do you like of what Aeronaut has posted?

378 - I'll ask Titus about Ika.

What do you like about CES' play? He's a pretty strong null for me.

Oversoul and Ank I can see. Maybe Aero as well. Again though, Anti is not scum.

Ugh, Aero, Zach and Oversoul are all voting elk and within pretty close distance of each other. I think my reads are way off atm, I can't see there being more than one scum in these 3 players.

VOTE: Oversoul

As for sketchy people on the CD wagon, Psyche has only just jumped off and CES is a big, fat null.

[Psyche]

i'm going to be relatively unavailable over the next couple of days so that i can revolutionize the study of randomness perception and remember why i like mafia,
but i'll still be skimming posts

[Regfan]

I don't know why I agreed to work on a public holiday, I do have the next two days off though so big rereads coming up then.

Llama, can understand and agree with the BBT, Zach and CES reads. Don't get your town read on Elk even remotely, comments you're town-reading are part of the reason why I'm scum-reading him and I'm not alone in believing that on my team, mind asking Nacho and Ffyer to at minimum ISO him and give me their thoughts on him because I really really don't like a) His avoidance of my point that if "Token discussion = anti-town" him voting Oversoul over me makes no sense and b) The timing and placement of his Psyche vote as well as attempting to claim he always scum-read him (Maybe get them to ISO me to see our teams thought process re; Elk too?). Think Ika should be much higher on your town list, much much higher.

Elk, I want Coppers (and your) explanation on the Psyche scum-read and the exact progression of how you came about having it as I don't buy Post 369 at all.

You know we don't have to actually solve the game, right? I'm just aiming to win it in three lynches and that seems pretty doable.

Solving the game is the fun part, no? Gives me something to do during breaks at work, on the bus, instead of being able to fall asleep. Okay, maybe I'm just crazy but I like to feel like I've got a very good grasp on the scum-team and have a solid group of town reads I'd bank on and I'm not having it this game yet.

I actually feel like there's probably one scum within the Zach, BBT thing. That whole fight feels forced to me.

BBT touches on this above (We're both agreeing on something, the universe will explode) but this stance makes no sense whatsoever (Thinking something is SvS or TvT does make some sense but SvT doesn't) as it implies that one of them would be town in this conversation acting awkwardly making nothing stopping from both people being town. The whole "1 scum in X/Y" is something I see scum using a lot to a) Make it look like they're taking a stance at the moment while not really and b) Allows them to line-up reasoning to throw down a vote based on flips alone later (Especially in this setup). So explain why you think the whole fight is forced for me and why you think there's probably one scum in them as opposed to both being scum or both being town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Cheery Dog, is your only scum read right now the one on elk?

Aeronaut, I'd still like you do ask Cabd how strong every player's scum game is, approximately.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Solving the game is the fun part, no? Gives me something to do during breaks at work, on the bus, instead of being able to fall asleep. Okay, maybe I'm just crazy but I like to feel like I've got a very good grasp on the scum-team and have a solid group of town reads I'd bank on and I'm not having it this game yet.

*shrug* Given how my last few town games went, just winning with panache would make me pretty happy. And catching the whole scum team feels too hard still.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Regfan, why are you town-reading Zach and CES? Same for Ika.

Also, we have plenty of information now and should be looking to start a serious wagon.

Not on elk though...

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog, is your only scum read right now the one on elk?

There's also one coming and going on ika, right now it's there for the stupidity of his last post.
It wasn't there when I had my vote on him.
The problem is that it is ika, and therefore I'm not sure whether it's just playstyle or not. I'm having the same problem about whether psyche could move fully onto the scum side or not as well.

[theelkspeaks]

I don't know why I agreed to work on a public holiday, I do have the next two days off though so big rereads coming up then.

Llama, can understand and agree with the BBT, Zach and CES reads. Don't get your town read on Elk even remotely, comments you're town-reading are part of the reason why I'm scum-reading him and I'm not alone in believing that on my team, mind asking Nacho and Ffyer to at minimum ISO him and give me their thoughts on him because I really really don't like a) His avoidance of my point that if "Token discussion = anti-town" him voting Oversoul over me makes no sense and b) The timing and placement of his Psyche vote as well as attempting to claim he always scum-read him (Maybe get them to ISO me to see our teams thought process re; Elk too?). Think Ika should be much higher on your town list, much much higher.

Elk, I want Coppers (and your) explanation on the Psyche scum-read and the exact progression of how you came about having it as I don't buy Post 369 at all.

You know we don't have to actually solve the game, right? I'm just aiming to win it in three lynches and that seems pretty doable.

Solving the game is the fun part, no? Gives me something to do during breaks at work, on the bus, instead of being able to fall asleep. Okay, maybe I'm just crazy but I like to feel like I've got a very good grasp on the scum-team and have a solid group of town reads I'd bank on and I'm not having it this game yet.

I actually feel like there's probably one scum within the Zach, BBT thing. That whole fight feels forced to me.

BBT touches on this above (We're both agreeing on something, the universe will explode) but this stance makes no sense whatsoever (Thinking something is SvS or TvT does make some sense but SvT doesn't) as it implies that one of them would be town in this conversation acting awkwardly making nothing stopping from both people being town. The whole "1 scum in X/Y" is something I see scum using a lot to a) Make it look like they're taking a stance at the moment while not really and b) Allows them to line-up reasoning to throw down a vote based on flips alone later (Especially in this setup). So explain why you think the whole fight is forced for me and why you think there's probably one scum in them as opposed to both being scum or both being town.

Team chat about this game (all times US East Coast)

me March 31 ~5PM: after replacing into the last game I played I forgot how much day 1's suck. struggling to read people.
copper ~10AM April 1: BBT/Cheery town, CES/ika scummy (he didn't explain here)
copper ~noon: actually you know what TTH is town and appears to be playing really well here, tell her I say hi and that she should just win this game already, her scumread of psyche is probably right.
me ~1PM: I don't see psyche-scum, why is psyche scum? I've got null on psyche and town on ika
copper ~3PM: partly the psyche is because he's trying to save ika from lynch, so you'll disagree with that part, but the other part is the very forced tunnel on BBT for being terse, looks like faked scumhunting
copper ~3PM: also what about CES, he's my #2 behind Psyche
me ~3:30PM: You know what I can see the Psyche, yeah that does look bad. As for CES he's kinda null-to-scum for me, contrast of "I wanna RVS" with "loljk I had a reason for that" seems a little off but kinda weak. Agreeing with the BBT town read btw after iso-ing.
copper ~5PM: BBT and anti are acting town with respect to you and your wagon, CES is always disagreeing with their reads, so watch him.
copper ~4AM April 2: look at the wagon on you, it flared up when you voted Psyche, but ika said his team flipped to town on you right after two people refused to vote you. ika/Psyche/CES, gg. Remember watching TTH play? She's super strong early game as town.

copper was scum in my Open 577 and TTH played by far the best of the town in that game, for the explanation on that one.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah I can't really think of aeronaut's claim of scum/town between me and BBT making any sense other than from scum trying to fake a stance.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aeronaut

[Regfan]

Elks Post 387 reads really town. Def need the big reread tomorrow, don't like being wrong.

Unvote

Elk, you need to post those reads and thoughts of yours in the thread instead of your PT or on skype from hereon out.

Regfan, why are you town-reading Zach and CES? Same for Ika.

Meta/Tokens.

Town read on Zach is largely because I can follow a lot of his thought process and actions, his vote on you and manner of doing it is something that Empire said he most certainly would have done too, liked his comment re; the swap in Post 226 even though I don't agree with it and the comment re; dragging you to a win in Post 340 read town - all that said this isn't ;rocksolid; like I'd like it to be. Town read on CES is even weaker and it's largely I like the way he's interacted with me and his comments re; "Wanting to rediscover his prime" read genuine as well as like his angle of questioning (Really saying this just reminds me how weak this is / how shitty I'm explaining it, doesn't help it's 2AM), explained the Ika town read in p big detail in Post 272.

[Ankamius]

373 - Ank, reads? Planning on contributing any time soon?

I'm waiting until I can connect with my team about stuff before I start getting my hands really dirty again. We came up with a sensical theory last time we got together, but there's been a few things happening that makes the theory feel less likely.

I've basically been operating in that mindset for the past couple of days and my strong points don't include altering that kind of mindset early on in the game, so I want to see what kind of adjustments we have to do before getting fully back into the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Time for scum to pick a new wagon. Elk is town.

Regfan, you're a funny guy. That town-read on CES is all kinds of sticky; you're right, it doesn't make much sense.

What about ika's reads makes you think he is town? How does him calling for Ffery make him town?

Ank, I heavily dislike that you're pretty much relying on your team to play this game for you. Is there a particular reason for that?

[Antihero]

367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing into a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.

it's kinda beyond my control (rl stuff), but it'll pass soon

quick 'n dirty while i'm here:
looks like tth's scumreads were psyche, ika, and ces. psyche read i have no issue with. ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.

additionally, zack making a big deal about the swap is pretty smokescreen-y considering he's not really attempting to grasp our team dynamic or take our meta into consideration and just screaming "OMG THEREZ SWAPZ SCUMZMMMZMMZMZMZORZ" even if you did buy into tth being scum, there wasn't a need for a swap and hammering on that point repeatedly w/o actually trying to prove scum intent is actually kind of scummy.

i think bbt and llama are p townish. it looks like aero is a hot topic so i'll be looking into that too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.

Ika is pretty lurky IMO, not sure how you have come to that conclusion.

Agree re; CES' ISO, not sure how people are town-reading him.

[Zachrulez]

367 - Anti is town. TTH was my strongest town-read and I really, really, really don't see Anti replacing into a scum slot. However, his lurking is bothering me so it would be great if he could do something.

it's kinda beyond my control (rl stuff), but it'll pass soon

quick 'n dirty while i'm here:
looks like tth's scumreads were psyche, ika, and ces. psyche read i have no issue with. ika isn't in his usual scum lurkaderp mode so i may have an issue w/ that read. not sure haven't read his posts. ces' iso is snoozeworthy.

additionally, zack making a big deal about the swap is pretty smokescreen-y considering he's not really attempting to grasp our team dynamic or take our meta into consideration and just screaming "OMG THEREZ SWAPZ SCUMZMMMZMMZMZMZORZ" even if you did buy into tth being scum, there wasn't a need for a swap and hammering on that point repeatedly w/o actually trying to prove scum intent is actually kind of scummy.

i think bbt and llama are p townish. it looks like aero is a hot topic so i'll be looking into that too.

I don't think I have any playing experience with anyone other than you so expecting me to know the meta of your team is a bit unfair.

[Ankamius]

Ank, I heavily dislike that you're pretty much relying on your team to play this game for you. Is there a particular reason for that?

It's more how I'm looking at the game, since I'm doing it in a completely different way than I've done in any other game in recent memory. My typical way of thinking is clashing with how we're seeing the gamestate and I'm running the discrepancies past them first since I'm not very skilled at fixing those kinds of discrepancies.

[Ankamius]

If it helps, Antihero's last post removes a lot of doubt in my mind that the slot's town.

[ika]

hey BBT, you got something for me? you could know like answer my quesions?

(im glossing though cus i just got up)

[Llamarble]

'Marble, why aren't you voting Cheery Dog? You must know this Psyche-thing is kind of weak given that he's being perfectly open about it.

This is probably my favorite CES post. An effort to influence things in a direction that makes sense (and it's true, I did know that the Psyche-thing was kind of weak).
That said, CES absolutely has the scum-chops to make the posts he's made so far, and I'll be much happier once he's helped us lynch a scum.

[Llamarble]

VOTE: Theelkspeaks

Explain this vote.

Given that you had a serious vote on Elk, what bugs you here?
This is especially weird given that Oversoul discussed Elk both before and after placing the vote.