Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[Shanba]

I somewhat disagree, I think the shitty removal is pretty unique to theros. M14 just before has doom blade, pacifism, liturgy of blood, corrupt, time ebb and a bunch of other random rare removal and removal build your own removal (with the act of treason/sac outlet subtheme).

Khans has abzan charm, jeskai charm, arc lightning, throttle, burn away, dead drop, murderous cut, debilitating injury, smite the monstrous, kill shot, force away, mardu charm, savage punch, set adrift, singing bell strike, sultai charm, plus some rares (two wraths!), winterflame... not all of it is premium, but it exists.

Dragons has similar amounts and similar amounts of premium removal - ultimate price and pacifism, the latter at common, spring immediately to mind.

m15 I always thought of as a pretty low removal set too, but I reckon even it has more premium removal than theros.

[Natirasha]

Removal has been on a downward trend in quality to the old days, but going back and trying, say, Mirrodin draft sometimes feels like suffering because it's a lesson in who opens the most removal wins.

Theros was dealt an extraordinarily bad hand, because Heroic and Bestow demanded removal be bad to be good mechanics. See, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying Shanba. I actually like Heroic as a mechanic--it's an absolutely fine filler mechanic--but it just doesn't have a lot to it, demands the set be twisted around it to accommodate it, and isn't very flavorful.

My favorite thing about Innistrad is the art. Yes, it's still in the same house style as all the other sets now, but besides that, look at this. or this. or this. or this or this. I could go on, but the art in ISD is all interesting angles--close-ups, sometimes low-to-the-ground, they all focus on making the cards, be it a 1/1 cantripper or shitty fog effect.

For a block with no real story, it's cards were most effective at telling one. The fact the cards all played well together, too and tied into thematic themes(humans banded together and used their ingenuity to banish the monsters, vampires literally fed on their opponent's lifeforce to get stronger, werewolves in general were a sweet execution of the day/night theme, the zombie deck was full of weird piecemail creatures, the other weird archtypes like Spider Spawning...they

felt

like you were losing your sanity making it all work. And

thats

what made Innistrad work. It tied the mechanics to the flavor together in such a way to create an intricate piece of art!

[Shanba]

Yeah, I can see that. A lack of removal I think tends to make comebacks harder, because premium removal is generally the stuff that allows you to either get your 2 for 1s (recovering card advantage) or your tempo advantages (doom blade your 4 drop, play a 2 drop), which makes a block like theros feel very linear - if you fall behind, it's quite hard to catch up, particularly with stuff like god's willing also being in the format. (Sip of hemlock your giant battlewise hoplite, run into god's willing is the WORST THING).

I like the point on the art, that's a really good point and you're right that a lot of ISD art is very evocative. I've never really liked the GRIMDARK stuff so much (a bunch of my favourite lands are the super colourful Lorwyn ones), but there's no denying that ISD does it very effectively. Cloistered youth is a wonderfully atmospheric card, for example. Comparatively, RTR, THS, and even Khans (but to a lesser extent) feel just like generic.magic.art. Like, the average card from ISD you can tell doesn't quite fit with the core set magic aesthetic, but has its own aesthetic, whereas I'm not sure you could say that with RTR. From what I've seen of the original Ravnica, and to be fair this is not very much - the format staples and some others at random, it does look like it captured an urban aesthetic just a little bit better. Rumbling Slum strikes me as a card that couldn't exist in any other set, for example.

ISD seems to share (from a draft perspective) with cube and with ROE the condition that all the archetypes are well supported, such that if a card suggests you can do something, you can do it - I think this is a point that Killingagoldfish raised on the reviews of those draft formats - but it's instructive to think about because you can compare that to, for example, Theros block, where the vast majority of draft arounds were not actually draft aroundable. That makes drafting less enjoyable, because you're making fewer decisions - drafting more on rails. Khans has some of that choice, where the value of cards can go up and down in different archetypes, but it doesn't go as far as RoE or ISD - and correspondingly isn't as interesting to draft long term. (That said, it's the best draft format since I started playing and by far the set I have drafted the most, not close.)

Not every set is going to be a hit, I guess.

[Natirasha]

Oh, absolutely, Lorwyn is my other favorite block. I actually ordered bulk of this island and this swamp so I can always just use those land. My first two commanders were Oona, Queen of the Fae and Ashling the Pilgrim. It had a similar thing where it had a specific theme and it executed it really well. The day/night flip to Shadowmoor was done much better and much more interesting than the Khans-to-Dragons, too.

That said, Khans isn't a bad block. Quite the opposite, I think it's a pretty good block compared to most recent blocks--I'd say it's the third best post-Lorwyn block after Innistrad and Scars. It didn't hit all the notes, but they tried.

I think it's Morph--morph is just a really fun, interesting mechanic that in another world would be evergreen.

Scars is actually interesting as foil to Khans--they are both good blocks, but Scars is fun because it's a huge hot mess of half-baked but interesting ideas, while Khans is good because they took a really easy, if uninspired theme and just focused on making it good.

[bv310]

It's interesting, because I feel the same way about Innistrad that you do about Lorwyn. I even did the same for lands (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/251.jpg, http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/255.jpg, http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/258.jpg, http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/244.jpg)

I'm a fairly large fan of Khans, especially because it comes after the incredibly dull Theros draft block. Drafting Khans is FUN, just like Innistrad was. (I'm also in a small minority of people who really liked AVR draft, but I'm aware that it's not popular for very very good reasons).

The sooner October comes around and Theros rotates out, the better. I've been sick of Theros' cards since around the launch of KTK, and I don't expect that to change.

[Shanba]

Oh, absolutely, Lorwyn is my other favorite block. I actually ordered bulk of this island and this swamp so I can always just use those land. My first two commanders were Oona, Queen of the Fae and Ashling the Pilgrim. It had a similar thing where it had a specific theme and it executed it really well. The day/night flip to Shadowmoor was done much better and much more interesting than the Khans-to-Dragons, too.

That said, Khans isn't a bad block. Quite the opposite, I think it's a pretty good block compared to most recent blocks--I'd say it's the third best post-Lorwyn block after Innistrad and Scars. It didn't hit all the notes, but they tried.

I think it's Morph--morph is just a really fun, interesting mechanic that in another world would be evergreen.

Scars is actually interesting as foil to Khans--they are both good blocks, but Scars is fun because it's a huge hot mess of half-baked but interesting ideas, while Khans is good because they took a really easy, if uninspired theme and just focused on making it good.

Morph is a great mechanic, but I am glad they added the 5 mana rider thing they added, because I can't imagine the damned if you do damned if you don't where it seems choosing whether to block is actually not a possible decision, just a coinflip. Albeit I never played onslaught, so I don't know how well it played in practice. I think delve deserves a lot of credit as a mechanic that leads to nice pacing in a limited game - you get these really great feeling turns where you play 2-3 spells a turn thanks to one of them being a heavily discounted delve spell. This plus morph plus decent card draw mean you rarely feel like you're struggling to find things to do with your mana, which is a really nice feeling - you can get mana screwed in khans limited, but it's really hard to get flooded.

Khans is just a really competent block, I think (and, yes, I do realise that Treasure cruise and Dig Through Time do not suggest competence on the development team). But apart from its impact on eternal formats, everything else is just really nice. Like, you rarely just die to some absurd bomb - I've lost to wingmate roc, but I've also beaten it. It's a format that gives you control.

On the subject of lands, Khans has my favourite mountains. I'm so glad to see mountains where the red is used as contrast, instead of just being REDALLOVER. Also some great islands, all the icy ones are just really nice. Actually, it's basically just the Titus Lunter art. I really hope he keeps on producing amazing lands.

[hasdgfas]

I really liked Theros

block

draft. Note, block draft. Triple Theros was miserable with all the 1-drop -> Ordeal -> GG games, and adding only Born of the Gods wasn't much better. Once Journey into Nyx made it a bit more diluted of a draft format, I felt like there was more you could do, and more interesting games.

[Shanba]

I really liked Theros

block

draft. Note, block draft. Triple Theros was miserable with all the 1-drop -> Ordeal -> GG games, and adding only Born of the Gods wasn't much better. Once Journey into Nyx made it a bit more diluted of a draft format, I felt like there was more you could do, and more interesting games.

I actually do agree that Theros block was quite considerably better than either of the two preceding formats.

That said, this was one of my favourites from BNG-THS-THS: http://imgur.com/hQPehaZ

[Espeonage]

I really enjoy drafting Return to Ravnica, Innistrad Block, triple Innistrad and Both of the Large Large Small drafts from Khans.

But the best way to draft is grab bag. Personal favorites are Invasion, Innistrad, Alara Reborn.

[Klazam]

Old rav block drafts was awesome

[Natirasha]

I once did a grab bag that was Masques-Betrayers-Born of the Gods right when BNG came out.

It was misery, but so miserable for everyone it kinda became cool again. Did you know that they printed a card called Embargo in Masques, and it's text reads 'Each player can't cast spells. You lose the game." It was very fun to play with. My only win condition was Shimmering Glasskite I think?

[bv310]

Good lord, why is that a Rare?

[Natirasha]

Mercadian Masques--the only block that doesn't want you to play Magic.

(I actually don't think Resource Denial is a terrible theme, but holy shit)

[bv310]

Yeah, I like Resource Denial in small doses. Stone Rain and Stasis are hell to play against, but having the ability to attack ramp decks is important.

[Klazam]

Well, i played embargo in my grimgrin commander deck. Was stronk

[Klazam]

And it only affects nonlands. Lands still untap so players can cast stuff

[Espeonage]

I have started Momir grinding. As of right now I am behind $2 (After 3 games) but if I can go 50% win rate I will stay even, anything higher than 50% in a gain.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I took 2nd in one of the 64 man drafts on MTGO last night; probably will give one another go sometime this week.

[bv310]

They're surprisingly fun. DTK is growing on me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Bought 3 RTR packs on a whim while in Waterstones, opened 2 shocklands and a Deathrite Shaman. Note to self: act on impulse more often. And not in the typical High Tide "cast it EoT grab a Force of Will" kinda way.

[hasdgfas]

But Act on Impulse is unplayable!

[Sudo_Nym]

But Act on Impulse is unplayable!

That's not true. Any deck that can pay 2R can play it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I should have seen this coming when I hit preview and saw Autocard was bringing up that crappy M15 card instead of... well, Impulse.

[Espeonage]

If a card is uncommon but was printed in a masters set as a common, is it pauper legal?

[bv310]

For online, yes.