Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Mina]

By the way, I'd feel guilty about starting a flash wagon now.

=20537&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]Here is serrapaladin in Zar's Holiday Bash.

serrapaladin is scum. No questions. He gets lynched tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

I thought I had, but was confusing her with TheWayItEnds.

Why does she ask?

She says you guys are doubting the stuff she says because of her rep as good scum but don't seem to know about her rep for good VCA and setup spec as Town. She was thinking maybe your teammates had told you about her scumplay but not about her Townplay.

[Mina]

Um...

Here is the game. You can ISO him for yourselves.

Gah. I should have voted him right away.

[Mina]

Hmm...

VOTE: serrapaladin

[zoraster]

Day 1

*** Alchemist21 ( 4 ) ***

Patrick

Quilford

BBMolla

Serrapaladin

[/color]

(L - 1 )

Mina ( 1 )

BipolarChemist

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Patrick ( 2 )

Ms Marangal

EspeciallyTheLies

[/color]

(L - 3 )

Quilford ( 1 )

Alchemist21

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Serrapaladin ( 1 )

Mina

[/color]

(L - 4 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 0 )

Total Votes ( 9 )

Needed to Lynch [ 5 ]

Deadline: April 14th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-14 20:00:00)

[Alchemist21]

The only difference I'm seeing in the ISO's is a lower activity level here. Is that what you're getting at Mina?

[Mina]

He also does this mysterious thing called "scumhunting" in there.

And "reacting naturally to things."

[Mina]

Alchemist, are your top suspects still Quilford and BBmolla?

[Mina]

ETL, when you get back (whether it's tomorrow morning or D2), could you explain what the difference is between my wishy-washiness and Patrick's supposed wishy-washiness? What do you think of his reaction to Mara?

[Mina]

Also, what's your read on BBmolla now? (at ETL)

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist, are your top suspects still Quilford and BBmolla?

Yeah, though I have been waffling a bit on Molla. When I finally got to see the reason he had me/Serra as a team and when I noticed the tone difference in his games, I started to think he could be Town. His fakehammer gambit gave me a lot of strong Town vibes, and I'd been paranoid about Mara's defense of me to the point of not being sure which one was scum. Then Mara claimed Tracker, which is terrible play but I think it does come from frustrated Town (my first game on MS had two Town wagons self-hammer, so I learned early that frustrated Town can do some stupid shit). Also, Molla's stance on his reads and his lynch preference seems backwards to me. He says I'm his strongest scumread, but then says Serra is scum regardless of my flip, and says my flip determines whether Mara is scum or Town. I don't think pre-flip associations are a bad thing when considering the feasibility of a scumteam, but it makes no sense for a Town player to read someone as scum regardless of what another player flips, and using that as a reason to lynch the other player first.

[BipolarChemist]

Sorry I ducked out there, had some pressing issues in another gameeee (Survivor game, not mafia, had to run a challenge that took like 3 hours).

I want to break my phone.

I am tracker, lynch pat NOW

Alright. Mara. First, this was just not an okay move. But you've been told that 20 times by now. By focusing on your primary lynch target, you're being kinda selfish. One thing I take into any game is knowing that my reads are not end all be all, I don't think any one's can be. Some more respected than others, but anyways, by claiming this you're assuming a town read on you will automatically get your reads trusted. What you should realize is that, that's not something that's just gonna happen. There needs to be good reason for a lynch target, no matter if your alignment is known or not. I am not convinced at all by your argument on Patrick right now.

Can you please take the time and run through with me what your exact case is here? I want to understand your logic.

[Quilford]

her rep for good VCA and setup spec as Town

VCA is trash. Setup spec is trash, but even if you wanted to argue that, this is an Open setup. Given the quality of her case on BBmolla, which consisted purely of summaries of his posting, I'm quite comfortable not paying her any mind.

[Mina]

Sorry I ducked out there, had some pressing issues in another gameeee (Survivor game, not mafia, had to run a challenge that took like 3 hours).

I want to break my phone.

I am tracker, lynch pat NOW

Alright. Mara. First, this was just not an okay move. But you've been told that 20 times by now. By focusing on your primary lynch target, you're being kinda selfish. One thing I take into any game is knowing that my reads are not end all be all, I don't think any one's can be. Some more respected than others, but anyways, by claiming this you're assuming a town read on you will automatically get your reads trusted. What you should realize is that, that's not something that's just gonna happen. There needs to be good reason for a lynch target, no matter if your alignment is known or not. I am not convinced at all by your argument on Patrick right now.

Can you please take the time and run through with me what your exact case is here? I want to understand your logic.

^And this is an example of why I'm incapable of town-reading you. Your tone just reads as scummy to me, dammit!

I'm kind of baffled by how you still have BBmolla as a top suspect, Alchemist, even after "wavering." That said, this game has definitely taught me that read quality is not always alignment-indicative.

(I'm going to bed, after which I'll probably wake up to see no serra catchup post.)

[BipolarChemist]

I read your second line of that post like 5 times wondering why the heck you were saying I had bbmolla as a top suspect and why alchemist was even in that sentence. I'm going to bed .-.

[Mina]

BPC, why haven't you discussed the fact Alchemist21 is at L-1, or mentioned whether you would/would not hammer? IIRC, he was your top suspect along with me, and you don't seem to be pushing an alternative lynch very strongly.

[Mina]

!!!

hmm also i should note quil read not as strong as mina read. definitely leaning on her a bit here.

serra read is mine - several games and hydraing with him gives me a good base there.

actually was considering switching quil with serra. bpc read is my team's. sthar also thinks quil could be scum.

HEY, ETL, PROVE THAT THIS ISN'T BULLSHIT SOFT-DEFENDING YOUR SCUMBUDDY!

WHEN I JUST FOUND META SHOWING THIS IS NOTHING LIKE HIS NORMAL PLAY.

Unless as your hydra buddy, he posted almost nothing whatsoever.

[Quilford]

Mina

[Mina]

You'll thank me for this on Day 2!

[BipolarChemist]

BPC, why haven't you discussed the fact Alchemist21 is at L-1, or mentioned whether you would/would not hammer? IIRC, he was your top suspect along with me, and you don't seem to be pushing an alternative lynch very strongly.

Iunno I'm fine with an Alchemist lynch and have been for the just of the day. With everyone on him, I found it better to look elsewhere for now. I'd give intention to hammer, but I still have shit to respond to a few pages back.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, when you get back (whether it's tomorrow morning or D2), could you explain what the difference is between my wishy-washiness and Patrick's supposed wishy-washiness? What do you think of his reaction to Mara?

Because YOU actually look like you give a shit about people's answers and you actually look like you are digging, whereas a lot of his "probing" is surface level and he doesn't follow up.

Also, what's your read on BBmolla now? (at ETL)

Town.

!!!

hmm also i should note quil read not as strong as mina read. definitely leaning on her a bit here.

serra read is mine - several games and hydraing with him gives me a good base there.

actually was considering switching quil with serra. bpc read is my team's. sthar also thinks quil could be scum.

HEY, ETL, PROVE THAT THIS ISN'T BULLSHIT SOFT-DEFENDING YOUR SCUMBUDDY!

WHEN I JUST FOUND META SHOWING THIS IS NOTHING LIKE HIS NORMAL PLAY.

Unless as your hydra buddy, he posted almost nothing whatsoever.

That's pretty much what it was. We have one completed and one ongoing as hydra, and several games played together. I'm quite active, he's not so much. I haven't seen a lot of him here tbh but I've been focusing on Patrick/Mara/Alchemist. My initial read based on his early posts was that he was probably town. I'd like to hear more from him, especially after the whole fake hammer/claim shit that happened yesterday. My current read on him stands the same - probably town.

Looking at the alchemist wagon:

*** Alchemist21 ( 4 ) *** Patrick Quilford BBMolla Serrapaladin

BB's town. Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum, at least not as much as Quilford or Serra. So if alch were lynched and flipped town, I'd be looking at those two, with a preference on quil as my team keeps yelling at me about him.

If Alch flipped scum, I'd look at

Mina ( 1 ) BipolarChemist (L - 4 )
Patrick ( 2 ) Ms Marangal EspeciallyTheLies (L - 3 )
Quilford ( 1 ) Alchemist21 (L - 4 )
Serrapaladin ( 1 ) Mina (L - 4 )

You. Or BPC. But mostly you.

As it stands, I've got mara, bb and you as my strongest town reads. That leaves quil, bpc, Patrick, serra and alchemist. My team thinks bpc is town. they think quil and Patrick are scum and null on serra. Other ideas have been alch/quil, though I think the amount of time quil has spent on the wagon and arguing with alch debunks that quite a bit. So definitely one of those two are scum, but not both imo.

[Mina]

Bah.

I don't agree with most of those reads, nor the assumption that 1) Alch's partner wouldn't bus (believe me, there's no chance of any counterwagon happening now, so if he's scum, most people with inside knowledge of his alignment probably would have bussed by this point and taken the free town cred hammer!), or 2) one of Quilford-Alchemist HAS to be scum. But...sure?

New thing to wait on: BPC catching up.

[Quilford]

Hey ETL, planning on providing literally any reasoning for all the reads you just stated?

[Quilford]

Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum

?????????

[Mina]

ETL, even Regfan thinks Quilford is town now.

Regfan.