NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[Skold]

[quote="In post 357, Rubicon"]A town block is a group of players with strong townreads on each other who are able to work together more effectively because of that.[/quote.] A pure town block (a town block that is actually filled of exclusively town people) sounds like a potent force, and mathematically unstoppable if they make a majority. However seeing as it is impossible to confirm that the town block is uncorrupt (has a scum inside of it) I see town blocks as inherently anti-town. Will comment on other stuff in my next post. But this seemed more interesting.
pedit: Town should always without exception give their true thoughts on stuff. Anything else fucks with reads and fucks with game.

[Nero Cain]

Town should always without exception give their true thoughts on stuff. Anything else fucks with reads and fucks with game.

So what do you think of bomber NOT saying what was on his mind?

[Grib]

I didn't have issue with almost all your other recent posts, actually.

I'll try to keep up the good work.

(Really, though, I don't see the problem with my earlier posts, but. Okay.)

[Ricastle]

I think this would be a good time to mention I've been scumreading jbomber for a while now.

Pedit: Recent as in last page. It wasn't sarcasm.

[Ricastle]

Page 14, specifically.

[Skold]

367
WTF? You say Jbomber is digging himself a hole and rather than pressure him, you vote me for interesting wagon. A'ight a'ight.

369
I think I've seen this before. A group of players vote someone without explaining why so as to increase the frustration factor and hopefully force a slip. I actually like it and should remember to try it in future. Also it's amusing to read. I find it a pro-town strat but I don't think it reveals much about alignment of the players involved, it can reveal interesting stuff. Though I think I kinda just ruined the fun by acknowledging this. Sawry :/

@Nero Cain's recent post: Bomber? I'm assuming this is a nickname and will get back to you on that, don't let me get away with forgetting. NM I'm fucking dumb as shit. Yeah it's scummy. I don't want players more interested in self-preservation than scumhunting. I'm keeping my vote on you till I get the in-game reason for you going hard on Boon though. But I think I should mention that I found your response genuine, I still want your reasoning behind that vote.
pedit: Ricastle, why didn't you bring this read before?

[elusive]

And WTF is a town bloc/town block/ town circle? This is starting to get to me.

I'm not entirely sure myself, but the impression I'm getting is that the proposed "town bloc" (consisting of grib, elusive, and rubicon) know each other well enough to easily spot scum among them and presently are all townreading each other. It's not great reasoning, but for now/day 1 I'm willing to give it a chance, for reasons I've outlined in 318.

This is what we are saying. At some point, when I've questioned both players more and looked at actions and stuff then I'll probably be willing to die for my convictions or I might change my mind. However, its very hard to trick people who you've played closely with and know more about then most others without feeling guilty or in trying to act as expected, slipping up. Rubicon deals with it one way (I've seen him as scum) and Grib another way.

Skold, you either aren't reading carefully or are ignoring what we're saying.

Ricastle, I've ISOed Grib and also looked at this scum game which he linked. Have you looked at any of his scum games? The difference is palpable. Also, I'm wary of the whole mafia vs. sk distinction you chose to make since it seems like only mafia would have the info to know the difference between who is scummy as scum, who is scummy as town, and who is scummy and sk.

Also not a fan of listing post numbers. Quote each post and explain why its scummy. It either adds weight to your argument or deflates it and its pro-town to help town see your points rather then obscure them.

[Ricastle]

It wasn't remotely relevant before, and has been my most minor scumread thus far. It would have been in that awful readslist I mentioned if anyone had asked for it.

Why do you think I'm reading him as an SK and not mafia? Christ. Mafia and SK ARE different playstyles; this isn't up for debate.

Anyway, Grib's mafia self-meta is a non-point because a) self-meta used as a defence is shite because it shows you're aware of your self-meta and are therefore able to play around it and b) his town meta is equally different as well.

[elusive]

Actually, I disagree that self-meta is a moot point. I played a game on here that's finished where I asked a player to self-meta. They did and it was accurate and also, on research, revealed the slip that showed they were scum.

What would you say at the signs for mafia vs. for sk?

[elusive]

*are the signs

I'm actually quite interested in this, as I can read such signs a bit later into the game based on wagon analysis and actions but on day one its more surprising.

[Ricastle]

Okay, that's one incident. That doesn't change what I said on the whole.

That's not something that can be stated universally, and I don't have real meta here. The major difference is obviously that one has cohorts and one does not, but any acts based on that vary between individuals. SKs would likely be more in-depth with their scumreads, I guess?

[Ricastle]

And I must make this fundamentally clear:

No you are not by any means necessarily an SK. There may not even be a third party in this game. That's the tentative theory I'm running with right now BECAUSE I think you're scum and it matches up better, in my opinion, than a mafia read given the circumstance. As I said: It's that or mafia. I don't care massively at the end of the day.

[elusive]

Ok, just so you know and I suppose the rest of town as well what has been working well for me in terms of scum hunting is questioning each wagon thoroughly. If a wagon leader or hoppers ons cannot explain their reads through ISO, behavior analysis, interaction analysis or evidence of some kind that makes sense, I'm going to question until either the persons on the crusade produce a strong case or I myself agree and have evidence to add.

So you sort of gave me some behavior tells that are general but not applicable to the actual just quite yet and I see that the case itself is still weak which is fine as its quite difficult to actually get the kind of scum slips that lead to a strong wagon at this point but the day is young.

[Garmr]

@ricastle

I see mafia in gribs but your kinda making question that by justifying him as a sk.

[Ricastle]

What do you make of elusive and Rubicon putting Grib in their townbloc, then? And what do you make of those two in general?

Looking back, I was wrong to call it an SK 'read' as it's more just what I'm using to connect the dots on Grib!scum. He's primarily just a scumread.

[Grib]

So what you're saying is although I've managed to completely dupe two players who know my playstyle extremely well, somehow you, someone who doesn't know me at all, have me pegged.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

[Ricastle]

The whole point of my SK proposition is it's a scenario where that's a lot more likely.

Though, are you saying it's unreasonable that you could trick people that know how you play?

[Grib]

The whole point of my SK proposition is it's a scenario where that's a lot more likely.

Though, are you saying it's unreasonable that you could trick people that know how you play?

As highly as I think of myself, I would still say yes. I am much better at tricking people completely unfamiliar to me, which is why I ended up getting lynched as scum Day 1 in one of the games I linked (Rubicon and another mutual friend were both town in that game).

[Grib]

I'm getting a little sick of talking about my meta.

Ricastle, who else is scum and why?

[Ricastle]

Jbomber739 - I faintly dislike pretty much all their posts. My read on them was too minor to be worth mentioning before, but recent developments have made me more confident. His opening was shady, his answer about my question on Nero in 177 I thought was weird (this is gut however) and he backed out when pressure on him intensified last and this page. He also hasn't shown any sign of investigating anything past his claimed opinion on Nero before the latter opened up, which he said he would in 230.

Skold - Mostly what I mentioned earlier. He opened unusually aggressively, jbomber opportunistically sheeped him using faulty reasoning to justify it, and he's given indications that he may just go back to lurking. I don't believe they explained why they lurked for so long either.

[Creative]

Skold

and

Jbomber

, the scumbell is ringing.

Ricastle

obsession with a 3P worries me, day 1 the 3P is the same as Mafia for the town, that shouldn´t be this relevant. Also, never truly explained the difference between mafia and 3P tells wich sounds more like fabricated stuff.

I want to move

Elusive

to my town circle, but i'm not feeling.

[Skold]

Did I not explain? Huh. I had an unplanned holiday (parents told me to pack my bags cause we had to leave soon). I'm lurking cause I don't have much to add. If I see something that either pertains directly to me or something I deem relevant I'll add my two cents.

Who is Jbomber referring to in the thing you're replying to? And Nero still needs to explain his go at Boon. Also @The Messiah instead of explaining you read, you've spent recent posts defending yourself and looking at other scum suspects. The second I expect the first I don't. Get on that. And by given indications that I may go back to lurking...I said I was tired and later that I wasn't feeling well. If I was truly looking for an excuse to lurk 1. I wouldn't be so retarded as to pick a reason I can't post that only lasts 8ish hours. 2. I wouldn't be posting. In other words, u fokin wot fam?

pedit: Creative would you please instead of declaring your read for the world (or at least this thread) to see, explain it? I don't see a me + Jbomb team working. For someone who has only posted for one IRL day a bus seems fucking retarded atm. But do as you like. I'm going to need help, what does 3P mean? I can't comment on that until I know.

[Skold]

*important. relevant is retarded since EVERYTHING is relevant just in degrees of relevancy.

[Garmr]

I'm going to have to do a re review of this game it's going to be one of those games.

[Nero Cain]

I've already explained my go at Boons.

So I figured why not start a wagon on Boons and see how he (and others) react and get the ball rolling