Malakittens is v/la indefinitely
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Nexus HemissHe
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Votecount 1.11:
jasonT1981 (4)-Thor665, Fenchurch, SleepyKrew, Trojan Horse
Boonskiies (3)-jasonT1981, Egg, Save The Dragons
Thor665 (1)-pieguyn,
Egg (1)-sthar8
Save the Dragons (1)-DeltaWave
Trojan Horse (1)-Boonskiies
Not Voting (2)-Malakittens, Micc,
The deadline is at 6pm on Tuesday 14th April 2015. Four days! With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Malakittens is v/la indefinitelyTrans rights are human rights.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 593, pieguyn wrote:you continue to handwave jason's angle as "OMGUS" when there is a lot more to it than that.
No - I continue to call the specific post in question 'OMGUS' and suggest that is not a valid case.
I *do* continue to handwave his overall case against Boon as playstyle - and have not seen you present anything to change that value call. Do not suggest I am summing up his case as OMGUS - I am not, not even close, I would not wish to argue that.
In post 593, pieguyn wrote:it's as I said. there is a distinction between OMGUS'ing someone, and objectively analyzing a push and finding issues with it. I doubt jason would have pushed Boon over it so strongly if he had stated jason was scum before he was actually prompted for a scum read, nor if he had any reasons for jason being scum that were particularly good.
I am not even disagreeing that it is OMGUS - I can agree it's OMGUS.
I don't think OMGUS is a good case - I see town OMGUS exactly like this all the ruddy time.
Bloody Jason OMGUSed me in this game - brilliant case against him that needs immediate respect? Nah.
In post 593, pieguyn wrote:if someone on my team has an exceedingly strong read on someone, especially a town read, then I would absolutely make use of it, yes. see: me thinking Mala might be scum but notsci being relatively sure she's town (even discounting RL factors).
So if you disagree with one of your team members - you'll take their value call over your own?
I do that if multiple teammates see it and I don't - but 1 v 1? I certainly wouldn't flip a read to their style.
Maybe this is just a really dramatic difference of opinion about how to play we have - I don't short shrift my thoughts as an active player versus my mates as outside readers. I think being in the swamp can maybe get you tunneled, but assuredly gives you sharper reads.
In post 593, pieguyn wrote:it amounts to Nacho missing something I would have expected him to see if he was town.
You'd expect him to see the policy push as not a policy push? That's silly.
In post 594, sthar8 wrote:Conclusions before analysis generally implies some addiional factor. It could be looking for reactions, but that wasn't borne out by egg's following posts. It could be a meta factor, but I've never played with egg before. My scenario fits better than any town motivation, so it's the one I'm going with.
In post 594, sthar8 wrote:I still don't believe that if I said to you 'You're scum because you OMGUSsed jason and I didn't like your fen vote and your STD position is the most popular in the thread' the expected response would be you listing all of your reads and positions.
I wouldn't expect that either, and I suspect neither would Egg - but neither of us claimed that, so you're strawmanning the position.
What both of us did imply was that you would react.
You did react.
Ergo: we are right.
In post 594, sthar8 wrote:Sure but where you're seeing 'caught scum' I'm seeing 'pissed at Thor'
No, we're both seeing pissed at Thor - but I'm reading into the way he's presenting being pissed and seeing scum motivation in what he's still doing.
You're seeing emotion and apparently declaring it town...for no discernible reason.
In post 594, sthar8 wrote:Not looking for an easy lynch, but trying to suss out motivations behind the posts. And he's been open with his thought process, even wrt you, and trying to cut the bias out of his reads. He's playing an uninformed game, and that means town. I do hate the boon vote, but I'm pretty solid on this read.
Your last sentence feels like it diminishes everything that came before.
So you agree he's not making a good vote (ergo - is using poor logic on some level) yet you think he's functionally scumhunting? So, you see evidence of fail and deduce it still equates to proper hunting...I don't follow. I see a scummy vote and see it as questionable.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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I'll even vote him again.
VOTE: Thor
We have cookies over here.
I'm working on trying to clarify my issue with Thor without sounding like a crazy person since it really has a lot to do with the feels I got from interacting with me and the little things he did in our argument that don't suggest a town motivation. I'm asking my team for input.
Fuck I'm even doubting it a little, wondering if I am the crazy one, and if Thor isn't really scum but just an asshole.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 603, Save The Dragons wrote:Thor isn't really scum but just an asshole.
Wow.
Check your mirror, pal - that's just being rude.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Like I'm sorry if you are offended by me calling you an asshole, I'm not saying it to be rude
I'm saying it because I come into this thread and dread every time I see your name as the one who posted
That I have to sort through pedantic bullshit in your responses
That I have to see you nitpick each and every point to the point where it's diluted
That I have to feel that sting of "this point only really makes sense if I consider STD is bad at this game"
That you have actually called me bad and 'derpy' multiple times; i think i'd rather be called an asshole.
That you have yet to even see me eye to eye
You are not town and if you are you are wasting your time with your hyperlogicized pedantic verbose questions and you're not taking a second to think about the point of view of the other person involved
You have these two scum reads you built in the first post of the game and every little post in another point against them
If you're not scum, then show me you actually gave a crap and tried to figure out my alignment before you just came in with a list and said "hey I'm back now. Dragons is scum" and spent the rest of the game arguing with me over the definition of things like "lynchability" instead of trying to figure out what I meant.
You have done nothing to suggest you've been thinking about why I'm asking you questions, which leads me to believe you are scum. If you're not, why am I to believe you're considering me as a person.
Like fuck I know I'm much of the problem and I'm not fucking playing mafia again I've said this I really really hate what's happening I'm so fucking stressed out and you are making it worse so I dislike you I'm sorry if that's not your intent. But fuck, I have 11 other players in this game that I still would play again with if I had any desire to play mafia, why are you the one I wouldn't?
Part of me still thinks you could be town and if it's true then maybe you are right and I do suck at this game and that's not a comfortable thought.
I'm sitting here discrediting my own credibility because I can't come up with a convincing argument to lynch you that doesn't look like I'm just being reactionary to the argument against me when in my gut I have no fucking clue why you'd behave the way you have this entire time in your case against me. No thoughts towards sussing my alignment.
So maybe you're starting to convince me that maybe I do suck
So maybe yeah I have some choice words for you-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Quote me calling you a dick or an asshole and I will happily apologize.
I will admit I called your play bad - that's part of the game. But there is a *light years* difference between saying someone is playing badly and someone is an asshole. If you can't figure that one out then I or you need to quit this game asap.
I'm not playing with someone who thinks they're the same.
Edit: if you didn't say it to be rude why did you say it? This seems nonsensical. You call people assholes *to be rude* that's what the word exists for.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 606, Save The Dragons wrote:So maybe you're starting to convince me that maybe I do suck
So maybe yeah I have some choice words for you
The hell?
If I am pointing out that your play has issues FIX YOUR PLAY! I'm not an asshole for finding holes in other people's playstyles - I'm fugging helping by pointing it out!-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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It doesn't even make sense.
"Someone said my play is bad...I think maybe they are right...so they're an asshole - brilliance!"
If you operate like that in the real world I am horrified.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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You could have even just gone with "Thor is rude" and at least it wouldn't have felt like you were attempting to piss me off. But you went straight for the hard insult.
You meant that crap.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 610, Save The Dragons wrote:Did you even read that for context?
I read that you called me an asshole - did I get that part wrong?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What else was in there? Ooooh, Thor is an asshole and I'm doubting my reads...as I vote him and call him an asshole.
Psssh.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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I think you are rude.
That is what I meant by asshole. I am sorry if you took it to mean something different. I think you have been rude to me. Maybe it was warranted, maybe it wasn't. I did not want to get you mad, that was not my intent.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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And it's based on a giant complaint that I find you scum WHILE NOT EVEN VOTING YOU.
Like, me SUSPECTING YOU creates such a total meltdown in your head that your only option is to flat out insult me...what the hell?
No - this is screwy as hell and I do understand you - I just don't understand you.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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I agree that we don't understand each other. I honestly doubt you made any attempt to. It's one of the reasons I think you are scum (and incidentally, not an asshole, since if you're scum you're justified in attacking me, though if true I don't really appreciate it. I can't really deal with that so I'm not playing mafia anymore.)
It is clear the world 'asshole' hurts you. Well, like I said, calling me bad hurts me more than calling me an asshole. That's different for you than it is for me. Again, I apologize if you think asshole is a terrible insult. I say it to express how I feel. Your rudeness has caused me pain. A lot of that is on me, I expressed my viewpoint that I don't hold you entirely responsible. I do not regret what I said but I do not mean to hurt you, only bring to light what I feel (and a side effect of seeing how you'd react).
If you hate me or think I'm an asshole, w/e. But I think you have been rude to me. If you are scum, you have that excuse, and if you're town, then you don't and I don't know why.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Also me calling you all the nasty names in the world or calling you the nicest warmest kindest person in the world doesn't affect how I feel about this:
In post 606, Save The Dragons wrote:If you're not scum, then show me you actually gave a crap and tried to figure out my alignment before you just came in with a list and said "hey I'm back now. Dragons is scum" and spent the rest of the game arguing with me over the definition of things like "lynchability" instead of trying to figure out what I meant.-
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sthar8 Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Thor
Epiphany. I'm mobile, so explanation and fact checking later.-
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DeltaWave she/her/hersMafia Scumshe/her/hers
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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jasonT1981 Jack of All Trades
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In post 563, Fenchurch wrote:So many wallposts these past two evenings. I'm trying to get ready for a meet!
I haven't caught up with all these essays yet, but none of the arguments I've seen grab me. If I was going to compromise I might vote sthar. pie is the person I trust most besides myself.
Would still most like to lynch jason. Would like him to respond to my #511, and Sleepy's #535.
I still maintain that scum boon boasted about doing it (as proven in my link) and has boasted here similarly. While he may have done it (hammering town read) as town, he has boasted about doing it as scum in Pokemon (I think that was the game I linked) and it matches to here. Hammering town reads is not the issue that makes him scum (it is a liability which I stand by saying) but it is not something you want around near end game ( I stand by that) and it reaks of scum. I concede I may have not been clear on this. It's the boasting I have issue with as it matches to scum boon.
But the boasting is the issue, he did it in scum as pokemon, and doing it here too smells exactly like his scum game.
I can't believe I am defending thor here, but Dragon, this is (how I remember anyway) how Thor plays. It is neither scum or town for him being an asshole. He can come across as that regardless lol (no offence to Thor) I know he is not on purpose being an ass, but he does come across like it
I am feeling like death tonight, parents spent a good part of a full day stuck in an airport, came home with flu, and now I have it... fuck-
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jasonT1981 Jack of All Trades
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In post 572, SleepyKrew wrote:Why do you think wagoning you is easy? Do you think you're scummy?
No, because its the main wagon, and little work by thor has to be done.. all he does is shout from the sidelines. It's easy. He doesn't have to do any work or look elsewhere right now.-
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jasonT1981 Jack of All Trades
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Malakittens Survivor
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In post 621, jasonT1981 wrote:In post 563, Fenchurch wrote:So many wallposts these past two evenings. I'm trying to get ready for a meet!
I haven't caught up with all these essays yet, but none of the arguments I've seen grab me. If I was going to compromise I might vote sthar. pie is the person I trust most besides myself.
Would still most like to lynch jason. Would like him to respond to my #511, and Sleepy's #535.
I still maintain that scum boon boasted about doing it (as proven in my link) and has boasted here similarly. While he may have done it (hammering town read) as town, he has boasted about doing it as scum in Pokemon (I think that was the game I linked) and it matches to here. Hammering town reads is not the issue that makes him scum (it is a liability which I stand by saying) but it is not something you want around near end game ( I stand by that) and it reaks of scum. I concede I may have not been clear on this. It's the boasting I have issue with as it matches to scum boon.
But the boasting is the issue, he did it in scum as pokemon, and doing it here too smells exactly like his scum game.
I can't believe I am defending thor here, but Dragon, this is (how I remember anyway) how Thor plays. It is neither scum or town for him being an asshole. He can come across as that regardless lol (no offence to Thor) I know he is not on purpose being an ass, but he does come across like itk
Again so you have meta on Boon doing what he does this as both alignments, but you are still trying to push a policy lynch via saying he's a liability. I have seen him just hammer people at will AND BE TOWN. I have seen him self-meta AND BE TOWN. So him doing everything above is null.
In then end you are trying to chalk up a null-read as a policy lynch, end of story.
I agree with Jason re:thor. It's just thor being thor. I have seen thor, first-handly, as both alignments play like this.No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
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