Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[hitogoroshi]

VC 57 (Major Day 1, VC 20)

(5)

singersigner:

Aronis, Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus [L-5]
(4)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod
(3)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul, Marquis, singersigner
(2)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart, Espeonage
(1)

ChannelDelibird:

Shadoweh
(1)

ActionDan:

DeasVail

(3)

Not Voting:

ActionDan, T S O, GuyInFreezer

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

CDB is V/LA until April 17th. T S O is V/LA until April 17th. Oversoul is V/LA until April 18th.

ActionDan has been prodded.

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: ActionDan

[singersigner]

Also, Bulba, is mollie reading along with this game? What does she think of me/Nacho's read of me? (I'd defer to ffery's read, too, but I don't know how much experience they have with each other)

[fferyllt]

Also, Mollie says that you both had the same mentor. It's not a mindset I agree with, since I keep PRs in mind when I scumhunt, but I can kinda see how you can get there.

I do too. it took me a while to calibrate that range of my scumdar, and the calibration took place well before I started playing at ms. I was talking very past tense in terms of my own game experience. In quite a few ms games, I've seen town prs come under heavy suspicion by other town players. I didn't look at the game Titus mentioned you'd been heavily suspected and were the doctor, but I'm aware of the similarities (and differences) in doc play vs scum looking for prs via behavioral tells (not crumbs).

I was surprised you took such strong exception to the convo, which is why I suggested you check with mollie.

[Cheetory6]

Exam tomorrow night.
Need to pass it.
Will probably start obsessing over this game again after it's over.

[Titus]

Off to do taxes...be back later.

TTH, you and I need to talk tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

I was surprised you took such strong exception to the convo, which is why I suggested you check with mollie.

I'm sorry. I was just really mad that you were refusing to work with or acknowledge me, and that just seemed like more evidence that your method and reads were so incredibly off kilter.

And now Mollie's saying that I can't use what I'm seeing as hard evidence, but I don't care. I think I'm onto something here with Shadoweh.

[Oversoul]

No one ever answered my question of why Espeonage is leading wagon
Also why was Vezok booned. That seemed not very good play and very odd coming from Fferylt from what I remember

going to vote me for it?

uh... no?
I just thought it was odd coming from you given your intelligence/team.
(indirectly calling it a bad move)

[Bulbazak]

@Ffery: If you can't explain anything else, can you at least explain the Vezok town read. I've been trusting so much in my townreads that he's town, but I'm not seeing what anyone else is.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, you and I need to talk tomorrow.

ETL's saying you're town. Anti says you might be scum. :S

Where do you stand on the premise that scum are pushing me to claim / mislynch?

[fferyllt]

@Ffery: If you can't explain anything else, can you at least explain the Vezok town read. I've been trusting so much in my townreads that he's town, but I'm not seeing what anyone else is.

based on meta, we think he's obvtown. as far as the boon goes, we were looking at players we thought were both really, really town and would not be priorities for night kill. Nacho and I both liked regfan's suggested strategy for booning.

@oversoul

I'm trying to figure out whether you are kinda picking up where Tammy left off, or if you're starting from scratch with your reads.

I'd like to know your thoughts on espe since your slot has interacted with him quite a bit.

[Titus]

@TTH,

If you read my ISO almost even glance at it, you would know I thought people were tolefishing you and that yhe wagon that developed sucked. I want to draw you out of hiding and you become the largest wagon all day at the blink of an eye. Umm no. I don't think so. That means you're almost certainly town.

ETL, we had a big spat over amateur in our last game. She went as far as saying that people needed medication to understand me. That still hurts. I was right there too, so she'll need to bring reasons before I entertain that I am wrong from her. I am sure she's nice and has reasons but I don't rapidly forget blows that get under my skin. As for Anti, he might as well give you the reasons so Mastina's townblock works effeciently. Townblocks don't work if we undermine each other.

TLDR: Bring it into the open and let's talk.

[singersigner]

Titus could you address my last question to you about TTH, please?

[singersigner]

Also, now that it's been brought up, maybe you and Ffery should have a dialogue with BBT about our last game together since he was my scum buddy. What does he have to say?

[Titus]

Where Singer?

[Titus]

Also, now that it's been brought up, maybe you and Ffery should have a dialogue with BBT about our last game together since he was my scum buddy. What does he have to say?

BBT's reading my posts to make sure I play nice. I will ask him about your scum meta though.

[singersigner]

Ah, ok, so it wasn't actually a question so I can see why you didn't think to address it...but while we're here! You previously said it doesn't seem like I'm reading your posts, but when it comes to my stances/cases on TTH/Shadoweh, you seemed to blow right through them. You didn't even try to discredit them as I assumed you would, except to say "Shadoweh's not getting lynched hurr durr."

You accuse me of being stubborn and not compromising, but then didn't really take the time to address the first moment I've been able to really express my team's thoughts/preferences/scumreads. It really felt like Mastin instantly shutting me down with her first response to me, which is surprising coming from both of you. It's like you're both determined to stick people in this secluded room with the rest of the outcasts, and talking around those who disagree with you without really

listening

to them and casting them off like lepers. (which I always tend to read as scummy no matter who does it because I feel like scum like to control the game state as a whole)

It's really difficult to take a town block seriously when the pioneers of it aren't taking into account the people who have the authority reads on certain players. And yes, now I'm appealing to Nacho's read of me and now mollie and BBT who probably have a vaguely better understanding of me than most others and will see this is obviously my town game. I'd appeal to CDB but I don't trust anything he has to say anymore since he was scum in my last game and just stroked my ego being right about my alignment. I'd also appeal to UT to get Reck's confirmation on me but that seems like a fruitless effort based on his contributions of the game thus far.

[fferyllt]

So I went back over Nacho's comments about singer to see if I didn't express them as forcefully as he did and I realized that I left out a bunch of adjectives about singer's early posts after replacing Empire.

he liked her quick engagement and energy and he thinks that's way more likely to be expressed by town singer than by scum singer.

Nacho reacted pretty strongly to gamma's post about singer trying too hard to show her emotions in the game to get a town read. he said she was excited, aggressive, frustrated, uncomfortable, etc. And he said the uncomfortableness looked like it was due to catching up on a big monstrosity of a game.

And I will say that it looked organic to me - not like a show.

[Gammagooey]

what posts in particular does nacho (or you) see the excitement and aggressiveness in? If I were to guess I'd say that you're likely reading singer the way you are for her early, longer posts fairly soon after she replaced in- she does ask a pretty decent amount of questions and engage with people around then, but aside from #1791 that I need to go check the context for to me it looks like a lot of her townier looking content is motivated by wanting to respond to people that are commenting on her, such as cheet asking for her esp read and mastin scumreading her.

going to the gym now, will be back on-site in an hour or so to go through things in more detail.

[fferyllt]

gamma sometimes it freaks me out how fast you respond when your name is mentioned.

[Bulbazak]

@Ffery: Mollie keeps yelling at me to reach out to you when I feel I'm doing exactly that. Something about you feeling marginalized. I figure the best way to reach out is to try asking you about certain reads to see why we differ. I'm sure she feels different and is going to yell at me later for it. I mean, I think I know most of your reads, but a reads list gives me a larger view of the game, and if I know how and why we're differing, maybe I might be able to actually open that line of dialogue that I've felt was so vital.

@Mastin: I don't know if you have or not, but can you walk me through your DeasVail scum read?

[singersigner]

I'm proxying my vote to Nacho.

@Bulb...since you confirmed mollie is reading the game, can you defer to her read on me, pls?

[Bulbazak]

@Ffery: Also, the reason why I keep having trouble with the Vezok town read is the way he's been acting in regards to his reads. At first I thought I might have just had a knee jerk response to his reads being so different to mine, but I feel that he keeps ignoring obvious lines of inquiry just to push push push. It's more pushing and less analysis. I also didn't like how he jumped off of TTH, who he was hard scumreading, to jump onto Aronis with me, another of his scum reads. That move didn't make sense to me, as there was no reason or indicator for his move off of TTH. I also didn't like his last attack on me at the end of minor day 1. It felt more like rubbing salt in the wounds and is what I normally equate with scum getting too greedy with a push instead of overzealous town. I mean, I've read Vezok as obv. town before, but I'm just not seeing it here.

P-edit: I've quoted your previous question in the PT. I haven't heard back from her. As far as I recall, she hasn't really given me a read on you. I'll try to see if I can push that through.

[Gammagooey]

gamma sometimes it freaks me out how fast you respond when your name is mentioned.

kekeke

[GuyInFreezer]

I'm proxying my vote to Nacho.

The hell I'm already doing that so you can keep your vote