Newbie 1592: The Masquerade -- Game Over!

[insanity018]

Votecount 2.2

Stabulous

(2): Ilhom, pistachi0n

(L-2)

Not Voting

(5): juckter, Nero Cain, Futan, Stabulous, Xayzeck

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-04-27 21:15:00)

[Futan]

Slow day is slow.

L-1

VOTE: Stabulous

[Stabulous]

Hammering me before I post tonight is a scum claim. I'm on my phone and will post in a couple of hours.

[Ilhom]

So now you claim hammering you before you get to post is a scum claim, but encouraging someone to do so the day before isn't?

[Futan]

Hammering me before I post tonight is a scum claim. I'm on my phone and will post in a couple of hours.

Last post was 22 hours ago.

[pistachi0n]

Who's talking about hammering you?

[Nero Cain]

Slow day is slow.

This is pretty much my fault for not being a very good IC

Now that I am all read up I am not buying what Ilhom is selling.

Tet self hammered, bro so this "Stab wanted to hammer tet before tet had a chance to defend himself" is pretty factually untrue. Also pist 231 is her willing to hammer him and that has nothing to do with Stab so...stab is scummy for wanting to hammer tet but pist isn't? If Tet had not self hammered who knows what would have happened so damming Stab for tets self hammer seems a bit short sighted.

vote:Futan

discuss

[Ilhom]

No one specifically just talking in a general sense, pistachi0n.

[Ilhom]

Yeah but Maxwell responded asking her to wait and she was willing to do so. The reason for the hour is because she saw Tetaes was online that day but decided not to post. I can understand her mind frame there. Stab didn't have any other reason than he thought that town would be in an amazing position based off Tetaes's interactions with people that day based on his flip. No that he's flipped, he still hasn't given us this valuable information to put town in that amazing position.

Beside that, do you not see his posts today as scummy? Would lynch him even if he still claimed a PR with no CC along with his contradiction a few posts ago?

[Ilhom]

I'm gonna also assume you believe there is a scum in between the 3 of us that voted for Tetaes. Why Futan?

[Nero Cain]

no and no

also

I see it, but I think we should let him claim and post reads before you hammer. Can you wait 24h?

^
was from yesterday. I think this post pretty much invalidates your argument. Tet's slot was p scummy and Stab wanting that dead makes plenty of sense to me. Who knows what would have happened if Tet hadn't self hammered. Doesn't feel right to blame that on Stab.


Will explain Futan vote later.

[Ilhom]

No that post helps my argument. He says we should let him claim and post reads before a hammer, but sets a time limit of when we should hammer. Everyone should know that Tetaes lurked hard and got prodded twice. That makes it easy to push for a hammer without allowing a real defense or a possible claim on someone who had very low activity. It's like an easy fallback for him to go to if need be. "Look everyone, I even prefaced my pressure by saying we should only wait 24h."

If Tet didn't self hammer pistachi0n was pretty convinced to. Every person in this game saw Tetaes as scummy and I honestly did not see him living through any defense that wasn't a PR claim with no CC. It's very hard not seeing Tetaes die that day otherwise. I'm not sure if you think I'm blaming Stabulous for Tetaes's self-hammer? That's completely irrelevant if so. The only thing I'm blaming Stabulous for is scummy play.

For the sake of my sanity explain this to me. How is it not scummy for someone to lynch a person who claims a PR with no CC on day 1, a position very far away from lylo?

[insanity018]

Votecount 2.3

Stabulous

(3): Ilhom, pistachi0n, Futan

(L-1)

Futan

(1): Nero Cain

Not Voting

(3): juckter, Stabulous, Xayzeck

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-04-27 21:15:00)

[Nero Cain]

The only thing I'm blaming Stabulous for is scummy play

Can you sum up what he's done thats "scummy". I could be misunderstanding the argument here but it seems you are saying Stab is scummy b/c he wanted to hammer Tet but Tet self hammered without claiming and thus its all stabs fault.

How is it not scummy for someone to lynch a person who claims a PR with no CC on day 1, a position very far away from lylo?

Who claimed to have a pr on d1?

[pistachi0n]

I'm taking my vote off Stabulous, I remembered him encouraging me to hammer but I forgot about the part beforehand when he asked me to wait.

UNVOTE

[Ilhom]

The only thing I'm blaming Stabulous for is scummy play

Can you sum up what he's done thats "scummy". I could be misunderstanding the argument here but it seems you are saying Stab is scummy b/c he wanted to hammer Tet but Tet self hammered without claiming and thus its all stabs fault.

255. Read to 264. I'll phrase it a bit different here.
He pushes for pistachi0n's hammer on Tetaes without allowing Tetaes to even post anything. I believe he thought pistachi0n would do it then because he described her votes as flimsy earlier in the day. At that point Stabulous was so certain that the game would be easy for town if Tetaes was just dead. His reads or possible claim were not needed, apparently. In no way am I even addressing Tetaes's self hammer.

Now in 277 he says it's a scum claim if he gets hammered before he can make his post tonight. Yet, he pushed for a hammer on Tetaes yesterday before he could post.

Stabulous made an arbitrary time frame of posting in a few hours and it's been five hours. I don't think we need to wait longer than that. The risk that he's town is low, but if he is we have substantial information from his wagon. Wait that sounds awfully familiar.... 230. That post is just ridiculous and screams scum to me.

How is it not scummy for someone to lynch a person who claims a PR with no CC on day 1, a position very far away from lylo?

Who claimed to have a pr on d1?

A hypothetical from 255-264. Stabulous said he would still lynch Tetaes even if Tetaes claimed. I say that a PR with no CC is a confirmed town for the day in this format. He dismisses me and calls me stupid. Pistachi0n pointed that out as something you didn't like of Xayzeck: dismissive, let alone insulting.

[Stabulous]

I don't believe you can't tell the difference between lynching a habitual lurker who has given every intention of never posting anything useful without waiting for a post and lynching someone who has promised content and has delivered on promises in the past without waiting for a post.

[Stabulous]

What we expect scum to do is lynch a townie when the townie is widely scumread and it's D1. When they don't do that, we have to investigate the reason.

First, it is a real possibility that the scum was on the wagon already and couldn't deliver the hammer. I don't think both were on the wagon, but I'm leaning towards Futan/Pistachio- Pistachio of course couldn't hammer because she has never cast a vote without immediately rescinding it the entire game (your most recent unvote was appreciated in more ways than one).

Second, it would also be advantageous to egg the wagon on from the sidelines without voting (Xayzeck/Nero) just to play WIFOM and incriminate the people under the bus. This is a valid argument, it's impossible to distinguish between the two scenarios.

I think that Pistachio is scum based on her consistent refusal to commit and her weird stuff at the beginning of the game, Juckter is town by POE, and the other scum is in either Xayzeck/Nero or Futan/Ilhom.

What a great post, huh! I'll admit I was wrong, this is not nearly enough information for a high chance to hit scum today. It's enough to give me something to look for when I ISO and hopefully enough to get discussion moving, maybe I missed something you can pick up on.

[Stabulous]

I also would like you not to lynch me today, the game gets a lot harder if you do that.

Why would I have wanted to lynch Tet even if he claimed? His D1 play didn't support a claim at all, I was reading him probably 95% scum. The chance in my mind of him flipping town was not something I bothered to seriously consider. He was scum, and I was going to lynch him no matter what he did. If he claimed JK/Cop with no CC he would be conf-town, but I've seen too many games where scum gets lucky with an early Doc/BP claim (they have a better chance at guessing because they have setup knowledge) and is regarded as conf-town for the whole game.
Let me repeat that: Scum has set-up knowledge and can find very good odds to make a claim that can't be CC'd. That's part of the design of Matrix6. Calling someone conf-town because their doc or BP claim was uncontested is, well, lying about basic gameknowledge.

You also need to learn to distinguish between "bad at mafia" and "scummy". You can accuse me of being bad at mafia for lynching someone who claims a PR if you like, that's your prerogative. But what on earth do I gain as scum from admitting I would have lynched someone who claimed doc? How is that alignment-indicative?

[Stabulous]

Also answering with "lol" seems dismissive. It's the same kind of thing that made Nero suspicious of Xay yesterday.

tripe

[pistachi0n]

Pistachio of course couldn't hammer because she has never cast a vote without immediately rescinding it the entire game

Your observation is true, but I would have hammered if people hadn't continued to urge me to wait until he had a chance to talk. I went to sleep, woke up, and not only had he had a chance to talk, but he had actually lynched himself.

[pistachi0n]

I think that Pistachio is scum based on her consistent refusal to commit and her weird stuff at the beginning of the game

I admit that my refusal to commit is because of the reaction to my weird stuff at the beginning of the game. I'm a townie and I didn't want to get lynched on my first day. The weird stuff was because I'm bad at mafia. As you also said,

You also need to learn to distinguish between "bad at mafia" and "scummy".

[Stabulous]

Difference being that I don't gain anything as scum from saying controversial things. It's just null (not towny because of WIFOM).

You do gain something as scum from playing noncomittally. Even though it's a well-known scumtell, scum continue to use it because it works- there are many games where town just eats each other alive with scum stepping back and refusing to say anything of substance.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah. You're right. I'm still suspicious of you. People made arguments that decreased my suspicion, but I still think you're more likely to be scum than the others.

VOTE: Stabulous

added colon and removed caps lock for the votecounter ~insanity

[Stabulous]

You're deliberately being vague, and it's obvious. "People made arguments that decreased my suspicion?" Really? Why don't you commit to something, Pistachio? You can't even commit to pressuring your scumread because you unvote me every time I ask politely.