I come with analysis!
Specifically on Espeonage.
In post 503, Espeonage wrote:nah I'm not and I can even proves it like right now.
1. If I was scum I'm fairly sure I would have noticed the game had started.
2. I actually spent token(s) on making myself town because I want to win TM.
3. The only time I don't choose scum when given a choice is when I really want to win or need to do it to eradicate choice meta. Both of those need me to be town.
I'm baning with OMGUS as soon as I find out who it was.
None of this proves anything. Even taking it at face value, how would "eradicating choice meta" be a priority in a game Espe "really wants to win"? For that matter, why would really wanting to win be something that varies significantly across games. We all play to win regardless anyway, so in that endeavor, choosing town would be the right thing to do anyway. I realize this is mostly tongue in cheek but it factors in to responses/posts later in the game and I feel compelled to gut it.
In post 506, Espeonage wrote: In post 502, Titus wrote:TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.
You think I lie for no reason???
The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.
@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.
That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.
hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.
In post 508, Espeonage wrote:Ok well I don't get an easy bane vote then.
But you're lies about bulba stand.
In post 512, Espeonage wrote:The point is that he can(TM).
And you gonna tell me that someone with established tonal tells that drew scum in TM isn't going to fabricate posts carefully? That's just not respecting Team Mafia.
Anyone can fabricate anything if they put their mind to it. But, Titus listed traits that I would presuppose would be more likely to be associated with Bulba town as opposed to her other experience of him as a scum lurker. Thus it becomes more probable that he's town (at least to her [it is far wiser to examine the content of someone's arguments/posts in any case whether carefully constructed or disjointed however]).
In post 513, Espeonage wrote:
Ok see, that is much better, well done.
For example, in a game where I have read half a page, you're the closest thing to a scum read.
In post 517, Espeonage wrote:I didn't call you scum, you need reading comprehension.
The point I was trying to make is that you can spout a read but that doesn't mean it's right.
I'm going to give this the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't an outright slip, but there's no point that's being made here. people can spout reads with or without the added bonus of reasons - which titus gave - to add and progress the gamestate (which means people being able to read them or adding to the volume of posts to discuss or what have you), you just happen to disagree with it. Also later on you question Tammy about having a problem with Mastin "voicing a town read" on TTH and believe me the strength of that read is stronger than here so this lesson is rather hypocritical.
---
In post 523, Espeonage wrote:Hey Titus. Quick question.
Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?
In post 532, Espeonage wrote: In post 528, Titus wrote: In post 523, Espeonage wrote:Hey Titus. Quick question.
Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?
Because we like people who like us. So scum can buddy by being likable.
@DV, What am I ingoring?
Town can also buddy so shit gets done. Come back after a flip.
pedit: LOL
This dialogue with Titus is quickly becoming needless pestering. It stops here but it's absolutely bereft of purpose. This exchange feels more like a fabrication of developing a scumread than a conversation.
In post 659, Espeonage wrote:Ok so at the end of page 23, I feel that Tammy is getting a bit agitated where she doesn't need to be. I mainly think her arguments are barking up the wrong tree and the excepts (I have yet to follow up on reading then in context) seem to be more of deflection over anything, which seems weird and Zar appears to be arguing the tree rather than the forest which is usually a sign of scum so I'm leaning towards voting.
@Red Wine Talk: That is the most fun game I have even played in and I was one of the first people dead. Anyone looking to learn how to do scum theater needs to read that game. I doubt there will be another example of how to both flail, and clear yourself from that.
In post 664, Espeonage wrote:
If it makes you feel better I am cautiously nullscum on Tammy. She is playing how I have seen her play as non hydra scum but I don't want to push it off such a small sample size as I have.
I will say that I am not ok with Tammy boon for the moment.
In post 673, Espeonage wrote:I already covered the your slot. Mostly deflection and I Tammy's wall felt very similar to the way she went about attacking me in Red Wine which means that she is probably either right or scum with you.
I will not clarify the Tammy pings.
If I'm getting this right suspicion is accruing due to a perceived similarity between tammy's scum theater in one game and play/walls in this one. And in that event, and considering the statement that tammy is either scum or "right", why would Espe choose to ignore the Empire part of "TamPire". That should be the person he should be looking into the hardest. Instead we're going to see an obsession with Tammy.
In post 697, Espeonage wrote:Hey Tammy, you know how you were during like the mid part of Unbalanced 2.
This is me telling you, you need to breathe.
Also btw, your explanation of why you attacked me in Red Wine is equatable to why I think you're attacking here as was picked up by Empire.
Ok got some pedits.
In post 705, Espeonage wrote: In post 698, Tammy wrote:Why are you trying to calm me down if you think I'm scum? Wouldn't I be faking my agitation in that case?
I have no idea what you mean by "as picked up by empire".
Dude, I don't know if you are scum. If you are town then there is no way I want to sever ties with you. This is going to be a long game, and we're going to need to be working together at some point over the course of this.
In post 967, Espeonage wrote:On that note, it's one of the reasons I was being iffy about my nullscum read on Tammy. I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.
It should be noted that by his own admission he can't definitely read Tammy on meta and tone alone except to conclude he can't townread her. Which is fine, that kind of distinction via meta and tone is something I do and most people do regularly.
In post 1409, Espeonage wrote: In post 1405, Tammy wrote: In post 1397, Espeonage wrote:Hey Bulba. Can you ask mollie if she thinks that Tammy's tone is town frustrated or scum default? She's seen both recently, they are both similar.
Why don't yu ask the confirmed fucking town that is actually playing in this game, has played more games with me, and can read me better.
See Tammy, the thing is that mollie has played with scum you very recently, I have a rapport with mollie as of recent and I don't have a good rapport with the confirmed town.
Now with that out of the way.
I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.
I'm pretty sure you're scum.
Vote: Tammy
gots a preedit come up
Logically, everything about this post is alarming. That same meta that was used before in Espe's Tammy read is employed here. Nothing has been added besides conviction; there is no attempt to get past tonality to figure out why tammy's responses to people don't look town for example (which remains vague as is anyway). I'd have expected even tidbits from a weighty vote like this one to include content. That said I find this post of his the towniest of them all. For some reason. But I'm going to ignore that. I almost feel like I made a Mastin-like assessment.
:does not compute:
I also don't understand why there was resistance to explaining why wagoning TTH wasn't a prospect beyond tammy's participation in that wagon
In post 1702, Espeonage wrote: In post 1698, Cheetory6 wrote:
Why did you spend your first ten posts chiding Titus instead of scumhunting?
Because I hadn't read. If I'm behind in games I will usually get in an argument with someone. It's the best way to get people chatting, good for getting fast reads. See Capcom for me trying to do the same kind of thing. Other examples are [REDACTED]
Espeonage wrote:I think Bulba might be town.
I've never been able to read him but just from a couple of posts and the things people are saying I'm going to go town.
So you can't read him, but you're throwing a townread at him because ???????
Reasons. Yes I have a terrible time trying to read bulba. But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.
Espeonage wrote:I don't actually think I can read Tammy except in cases where she is being very town in her own way which isn't happening here.
How did you start confidently scumreading her later this cycle then?
Thinking
Espeonage wrote:I'm getting more and more happy in my read that you're scum. Truth be told I found myself unapproving of the tth wagon simply because you were on it which took me by surprise tbh. Your tone here doesn't read to me like the frustrated got irl stuff tone as far as I can tell, which is about the only explanation I have for the amount of scumminess I am feeling from your posts. And even if that is the reasoning for your tone it still doesn't mean you're town, it takes it to null, at most. I don't have the most experience with you but I'm going off what I do have. And your responses to people here for the most part aren't looking town.
Can you pull specific examples of that you're finding scummy about her responses/tone?
It's most of it. She usually respects and embraces reachouts in my experience. She even scumread mollie after she didn't react to a reachout from her. There's a disjoint and that usually means scum.
Responses in bold.
In post 1706, Espeonage wrote: In post 1703, Cheetory6 wrote:Espeonage wrote:But I'm noticing some things that haven't come up in his play before and those make me lean town.
Can you talk about these? Or is it just gut?
There are actual reasons. But if I say stuff he'll modulate play and I'm not solid on the read. I'd rather keep it close to chest for the moment.
If Espe "really wants to win" why not disclose these reasons that he thinks makes Bulba town. The claim that the reasons are reasons for bulba town are undermined by the fact that he hasn't seen this play before... so how would he know if it's town or not? As for the other bolded stuff I found of interest: The dialogue with Titus didn't go anywhere. There wasn't a quick read. Titus is apparently a townread now but certainly not because of what happened on page 23. I still find it hard to believe that in liu of inspecting the content of Tammy's posts, the response to a reachout (which was almost patronizing) would have skewed him to move to vote.
In post 2123, Espeonage wrote:If people want to the main reason as to why I cant let Tammy scumread go is because she is incredibly interested in pointing out how wrong the person who has the absolute least influential voice in the game is. Pick your battles and play the game.
This is not true at all. I haven't read most of them, but tammy's walls are organized enough that it's obvious she's talking about more than one person, even in different capacities, to warrant this denouncement.
In post 2141, Espeonage wrote:Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq? Considering how solid it looked to me, I'm surprised that we're the only two votes on him.
As someone who actually read through that (being like, the one thing I did so far this game), I'm going to go ahead and state that TTh's Marquis case is nowhere close to ironclad. It's a good point but it has plenty of flaws if taken alone. If this "looks solid" to Espe it's clear to me it's a tacit admission he didn't read anything beyond TTh's post... nor quite obviously, my caveats directly following which might have helped him avoid this question.
All other posts made by Espe I either find alignment neutral or repetitive with the ones presented here.
My conclusion is that he's scummy. The most egregious thing being focusing on Tammy, regardless of reading solely into her meta/tone or whatever, and dropping attempting to read Empire during this period. It was a simple thing to answer his request to review his reads even (detailed and long as they were).
VOTE: Espe
I'll do CDB later today so sit tight
