13p Normal [TM2015]

[pieguyn]

(and no, my argument is not that she's scum for supposedly playing off her town game

it's that it's really easy to fake extra bursts of effort like she's doing here, and so that it's a shit reason to town read her. this is even more so the case when if you attempt to look at it objectively, none of it is town and instead she's spending all of it doing things like writing walls with the sole purpose of discrediting other people)

[Save The Dragons]

Why don't you want to interact with me?

I do but you haven't said anything yet to interact with

In my opinion, you should get caught up so we can interact like gents with much merriment and revelry and also so we can vet you and determine if you are scum

[Nexus]

Votecount 2.2:

Malakittens (3)-

Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew

VysePresident (2)-

Trojan Horse, Egg

DeltaWave (2)-

Boonskiies, Malakittens

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Not voting (3)-

jasonT1981, VysePresident, DeltaWave

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm on the 30th April 2015. (expired on 2015-04-30 13:00:00)

[Malakittens]

.......

that's a really bad reason for reading her as town. GIF in particular should know this because of how Mala essentially rolled over and died in TH upick 3 where she was town and not in a position to do anything bc her RL went to shit, which is essentially the same scenario we have here. I would think she'd put *more* effort into defending herself as scum here bc she'd care more about her survival, not less.

I'm not saying her effort here is necessarily a scum tell, but it's a really shit reason to town read her.

This is fucking false. I didn't roll over and die until I royally fucked the game up for myself and it wasn't fun. D2 I spent tryin to get notty to reset his scum read on me. By night 2 i figured I was dead so I tried to throw off my only single card that vanillauzes a player. My neighborhood was freaking unfun. They wouldn't work, they were decrediting some of the reads (maybe Ank ank was okay), but I wanted their help in makin a decision and I got freaken crickets. So I ended up using the card on a basially conf town player. It made me feel like shit, useless and unworthy to be playing at that point. Mostly everyone thought I was scum. I wasn't gonna be able to argue out of a lynch so yes i gave up towards the end, but not before I tried fighting the lynch off the day before.

[Malakittens]

Not. Mention my reads were whacky. My strongest scum read flipped town and my two strongest townreads flipped scum. Everyone thought I was scum because lol townreading scum. I was a liability because my reads were probably assbacmwards etx

[Malakittens]

Pie -- you haven't noticed because frankly im doing this behind the scenes more than in the public eye, but I'm going back to a lot of my old recent games to review my play. In the last three completed newbie games I have: been ran up and tried to be mislynched early. Once it succeeded, the other two games failed because I were PR's. My one scum game I had i was barely under suspicion. (Possibly because GM was my partner and I trusted her to hell and back which made a difference in my play)

I also noticed a pattern in my scum games which I'll end up fixing later on sometime this year after im done taking my mafia break.

[sthar8]

Prod dodge for a bit, I wound up with three kids this morning. I'll be back this afternoon to catch up, but if you have anything specific please let me know.

[SleepyKrew]

The prod dodging begins

[jasonT1981]

yo jason, are you open to a Mala lynch today? what do you make of her recent behavior?

not fully caught up (Sorry, been seriously slacking this weekend, no real excuses, I have just been bloody lazy and enjoyed time away from computer) Mala came across townish day 1 to me. Not high up on the town read, but nothing pinging serious enough to pick up as scum.

SK - Day 1 you were on DW and trojan a good bit. Do you still think they are scum (or at least one of them since your vote is on mala)

If Mala is scum, who out of DW and Trojan do you think is the most likely for 3rd scum?

[jasonT1981]

Not sure I like Egg and Trojan votes on the Vyse wagon, it seems very easy votes with little actually being brought forth about why vyse is scum. Seems more circumstantial lynch the spot that was inactive most of D1 rather than an actual case made on Vyse.

In fact, both have voted, and in their many posts after voting have not really even mentioned Vyse too much that I can see afterwards.

It just feels like an easy jump, kinda like how Trojan stayed on my wagon most of D1 thinking it was an easy lynch.

[jasonT1981]

sthar8 is also pinging scum slightly for me. Its gut mostly, he is about and active but not actually doing very much. His words seem hollow and mostly filler trying to blend in and go un-noticed.

[jasonT1981]

vote: Delta

Thought I had done that in my post #901 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6771517

[pieguyn]

I wasn't gonna be able to argue out of a lynch so yes i gave up towards the end, but not before I tried fighting the lynch off the day before.

... ok. so, what?

if you read my post, you'd realize what I'm primarily saying there is that Boon is incorrect to town read you for "effort".

not fully caught up (Sorry, been seriously slacking this weekend, no real excuses, I have just been bloody lazy and enjoyed time away from computer) Mala came across townish day 1 to me. Not high up on the town read, but nothing pinging serious enough to pick up as scum.

k. I recommend you read her posts today (and my posts re: her) very carefully when you get to them.

[Trojan Horse]

Not sure I like Egg and Trojan votes on the Vyse wagon, it seems very easy votes with little actually being brought forth about why vyse is scum. Seems more circumstantial lynch the spot that was inactive most of D1 rather than an actual case made on Vyse.

In fact, both have voted, and in their many posts after voting have not really even mentioned Vyse too much that I can see afterwards.

It just feels like an easy jump, kinda like how Trojan stayed on my wagon most of D1 thinking it was an easy lynch.

Sadly, there's not much for me to say about Vyse at the moment, since there's not much that Vyse has said so far. And that's the problem. The main thing we have seen Vyse do so far is jump on my bandwagon, when the only other viable bandwagon was scum. So he seems like the best lynch candidate at the moment. Until Vyse actually starts participating, and gives us some of his town/scum reads (perhaps with the assistance of his team), I see no reason to change my vote.

vote: Delta

Thought I had done that in my post #901 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6771517

Let me look at that 901.

Marquis made a good point that Delta and SK yesterday (game day) seemed to show little to 0 concern coming up to deadline, both were active but didn't seem overly invested in a lynch. Delta especially was just throwing his vote anywhere (in the last 24 hours or so had his vote on Trojan, STD and Boon. Didn't seem to care who was lynched as long as a lynch was made.

I get he didn't want to lynch a PR.. I get that, I was the same on Thor. There just seemed very little urgency with Delta in the run up to the lynch.

SK gave me a pretty good interrogation at the end of day 1. He definitely looked concerned to me. You have a stronger case concerning Delta, but even then, I'm not convinced. Delta had already talked about his suspicion on STD and Boon. The only "gotta lynch someone" vote he cast was for me, and by that point, it was obvious that either Thor or I would be lynched.

[pieguyn]

we feel that Delta is strongly town off, among other things, this exchange:

I talked it over with my team and there's a strong preference for a sthar8 lynch, even though this guy has been flying largely under my radar. They do seem supportive of Trojan as a next-best-lynch. I've been on the fence about Trojan for a while, but I'll give my team some credit on this one. Plus, I'm not about to lynch a D1 PR claim.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Trojan

L-1

Horrible, horrible idea to lynch a PR claim D1. There is no excuse for this wagon.

his attitude here is "it's fucking terrible to lynch a PR D1, you all have no excuse for this". this is a town mindset, even though it (in this case) wound up being incorrect. it's him getting frustrated and disagreeing with it bc he can't see why everyone has gone insane and is lynching a PR on D1. we do not see scum attempting to use this specific situation to their advantage here or going out of their way to make up reasons to derail the Thor wagon.

we think Egg is probably town for the same reason, as well as the hammer yesterday. either way, DW is a really bad lynch right now.

[Egg]

Jason, my pool for today is three and I'm not entirely convinced Mala and Boon are scum together. That leaves Vyse as scum with one of them. So it's PoE+gut+Trojan vote. I realize it's not a convincing case but it's enough for me. Not sure what more you expect. All I can do is repeat the same unconvincing thing over and over.

[pieguyn]

yo Egg, are you open to a Mala lynch today? I'm basically in a similar position to you, except I have it rearranged a bit: Mala as scum + one of {Boon, Vyse with an outside chance of SK}.

I do think that Boon makes the most sense as a Mala partner here, just based on how today has played out, but I don't feel particularly strongly about it at this point.

I would like to see more content from Vyse, but I'm not about to lynch him just based around the way he voted. essentially, I think Mala is a lot more likely to be scum based around play as opposed to Vyse at this point.

[Egg]

I'm more than open to it. If it comes down to Delta vs Mala like it seems to be right now, you've got my vote. Can you sell me on a Boon/Mala team though? I wanna believe but I'm just not sure I do.

[Egg]

Actually Delta and Vyse are tied. Still though. You know what I mean lol

[pieguyn]

sure. here's what I'm thinking about atm:

Yeah, mala and I have like dead similar reads. Scum is most definitely going at her wagon. Time to rethink it. Also, Sthar's read's are very similar, I believe.

this feels more like a weak attempt to misdirect off Mala than a town player actually believing what they're saying. the first problem here is obvious. look at this and then look at his reads list:

jasonT1981
Save The Dragons

Malakittens
sthar8
Trojan Horse
Pieguyn

SleepyKrew

VysePresident

Deltawave
Egg

Votecount 2.2:

Malakittens (3)- Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew
VysePresident (2)- Trojan Horse,

Egg

DeltaWave (2)- Boonskiies, Malakittens
Egg (1)- sthar8

Not voting (3)- jasonT1981, VysePresident,

DeltaWave

but, OK. I could maybe see a town player thinking this and choosing to reevaluate. but that brings us to the second problem: he's saying this without naming any names on the wagon he doesn't like, or putting any follow-through into this thought at all. he's not actually reevaluating here. he supposedly thinks this, but as far as I can tell, the only indication he's factoring this in to his reads _at all_ was 991 where he switches to DW, which hardly means shit given he had DW as scum anyway.

he's not critically analyzing the scum reads on Mala here. it's nothing more than a throwaway statement.

/shrug

My team feels that Mala wouldn't put the effort into defending herself as she is if she was scum. Way too much effort. This is town mala. This was from Ika's perspective mainly, but GuyInFreezer still believes Mala is town for similar reasons.

this reasoning for town reading Mala is completely ass-backwards. suppose we've lynched scum on D1, as we've done here. scum now only has 2 members remaining and town has the upper hand.

so: who cares more about their survival? scum, who need to last 4 more days with one of their partners gone and if dying today would result in a near certain loss for their team, or town, who is under a hell of a lot less pressure after a D1 scum lynch?

as I said, I hardly think Mala is scum for her effort here, but it's a really shit reason to town read her. and I hardly believe GIF in particular would buy something like this, although it sets off alarm bells regardless. this is even more so the case when none of the "effort" she's doing is objectively town and instead appears to be coming from a scum agenda (discrediting scum reads on you and bringing up a lot of irrelevant shit in order to distract).

this isn't really very strong and my team (or rather, the one person on my team helping me here) still thinks Boon might be town, but it could easily be a possibility. I'm not really getting why you were ruling it out earlier.

[pieguyn]

there's also the fact that he stayed on the TH wagon on D1 after it got serious despite NOT GIVING ANY REASON AT ALL FOR READING TH AS SCUM THE WHOLE TIME. but I suppose this in particular could make as much sense coming from town as opposed to scum. the other 2 points are more telling imo.

[Egg]

Honestly, that looks like a better "Boon is scum" case than "Boon and mala could be buddies" case. It doesn't really change my mind on anything.

[pieguyn]

what is making you rule them out as a team, then?

and even if they weren't a plausible team, I'd still prefer lynching Mala today as she's a stronger scum read over attempting to guess the entire team today.

[Egg]

This mostly:

I retract my previous belief that {Thor, Mala, Boons} is the scumteam...it's a pretty ballsy scum move to post the exact same readslist right after each other

Although ballsy isn't the word I'd use.

I dunno though. I don't think it's impossible that Boon didn't read Mala's reads and it just happened to be the same. Or he just didn't care. I just think it's unlikely.

[pieguyn]

eh, I could easily see it coming from partners - and, in fact, have seen it coming from partners on at least one occasion. "too obvious to be scum together" really isn't a good argument

I might also just be completely wrong about one of my town reads. either way, I don't really think it's a good idea to try and guess the entire team at this point.