Newbie 1596: Exotic Birds (Game Over)

[Argos]

Hey guys! Kind of frustrating to check the thread and realize that my random vote lead to a false lynch. I'm kind of stumped on what to do now, because reading through the thread I was all set to put pressure on BBT only to have that hunch violently yanked away. If saad was scum killing BBT would be a pretty dumb and obvious move and even if he WAS that inexperienced of a player I don't see his scumbuddy singing off on it. Will try to do some more digging later tonight.

[saad]

So what's with the vote on plotinus?

well first of all i'll say this. i do think his vote on mofogugen if that was his name was an unintentional hammer, but i do think the intention of the vote was to push on him unnoticed if you get what i mean. also this i feel comfortable with:

So, did everyone get the role they wanted?

seems like a strange thing to ask. scum trying to fit in or nervous scum trying to break the ice?

also his lack of reaction to my vote is quite suspicious, he questions if i expected bbt to be killed rather why i voted him? is

this

scum trying not to look scummy by reacting to an early vote?

most of the other stuff is just filler material but there is a contradiction in his play i think, as in his cautiousness to vote me, despite scumreading me early, then voting mofogugen as a pressure vote. why didn't he pressure vote me? why only mofogugen? he fossed us both yet he only voted one of us.


my powers are my voice and the right to vote, hence why i am using my voice and voting my scumread.

[saad]

*uncomfortable

[saad]

*not reacting, i should have proof read.

[Plotinus]

@Saad

Oh, I thought you were voting me because of the hammer thing. So you're scumreading because I seemed nervous in my opening but I seem nonchalant about being voted for.

About the opening, my answer to my own question is "I was hoping to get scum because I haven't been scum yet in an online game and I want to try it but it didn't happen this time." Make of that what you will. I didn't think I would really catch scum with the question, but I thought seeming either a little bored or a little relieved with the role might be a weak town tell.

I actually spent all of LYLO last game (as town) tunnelling a townie who had squirmed too much (I thought) in twilight over having misread someone, so I guess we disagree about that being a tell -- I think it's going to depend a lot on a person's personality.

The way I think is that you're entitled to your vote, even if it's for me, and even though you're mistaken about me it's understandable. I'm hoping I won't be mislynched today, because then we'll have to guess right twice in a row for town to win, but I don't think anyone wants to lynch me right now so it doesn't seem worth getting upset about it yet. I'm interested in scumhunting, and that means deciphering your posts and trying to coax the others out of their shells to talk with us.

As for why I didn't vote you yesterday: I was suspicious of how sure Blue was about you, saying they'd found scum on Page 1. I wasn't sure where they were going with it. But it seemed to work okay, you started talking to us when you were at L-1 and it seemed better than RVS for scumhunting, though I was worried if we did it to everyone we'd just out our powerroles for no reason on day 1 before they had any info to give us. But it seemed like a little pressuring might help with the early hunting your interaction with Blue. So then with mofo, Blue said they were pressuring him but I thought he was only at L-3 so it didn't seem like very much pressure. It all happened pretty fast, but after Blue made the big letters for you about you being at L-1, I trusted them to do the same for mofo and I shouldn't have.

And of course today I'm shy about voting anyone after the mishap, but I think even if I'm not just about to go to bed I won't do any voting after midnight at all anymore. I can vote someone in the morning if I feel like it.

[Plotinus]

but I don't think anyone wants to lynch me

right now

(as opposed to towards the end of the week) so it doesn't seem worth getting upset about it yet.

But it seemed like a little pressuring might help with the early hunting

after

your interaction with Blue

EBWOP

[Wanderer-nl]

(partial quote)

I feel you make a rather one-sided conclusion. It makes me feel the same as what you did with Mainez: you believed her so much about afk due to school that you wouldn't really consider her as scum until you no longer could get around it, while not lying about being afk is not allignment-indicative (since you brought it up I am going back to it) Instead of scumtunnelling, you are towntunnelling.
Maybe saad wants us to think he'd lurk/replace out if he rolled scum. I'm leaning that way at least for now.

@plotinus: it's not my place to tell you how to play this game. I did want to bring this to your attention but now that I'm reading it again I feel like I'm being condescending. I can be paranoid about things and I don't want to 'infect' others (in this case you) with that.

[Wanderer-nl]

Skold, what do you think of all this? I know it's the first reallife day of the game still but some of us are already starting to form early opinions. What do you think of BBT's pushes on saad and now mofo? What do you think of the way saad and mofo have been behaving?

Anyway, I'm ready to use my vote too to see how he reacts to some pressure, since he's closer to the bottom of my reads list. though I do think it would be suicidal to do this to everybody one at a time leading to a massclaim on day 1.

VOTE: Mofonugen

pedit: hi skold! You can answer tomorrow, it's ok.

Why did you think mofo needed pressure?
In 179 you say you thought BBT was suspicious for being so sure about saad but your play hardly shows you did d1. You also blindly followed him voting for mofo.

[Plotinus]

On page 1, I wasn't sure what to make of BBT for being so sure, and I was a little suspicious because they seemed to be taking charge of the game. I guess I didn't do a good job of telegraphing that at the time. The only signs were not joining in the saad wagon and waiting to see what the consequences of BBT's actions would be. I felt it was too early for real suspicion, either BBT of saad or me of BBT, but I was keeping my eye on them.

Then when saad was at L-1 there was some good discussion and I was glad we were getting out of the RVS stage and into Day 1 so early, so I started liking BBT's technique then. By then I was reading them as an experienced player who knew what they were doing, so I thought I could try to help, which went about as well as a baby trying to help wash their own diapers. The technique seemed to only work when someone was at L-1, and nobody was acting like they thought mofo was at L-1. Mofo said in twilight that he also thought he was at L-3 so that's why he wasn't really reacting.

Then in twilight I was suspicious again because of how things had turned out. I felt bad for what had happened and I wanted to know if anyone who had a part in it was doing it on purpose, so I was a little suspicious of BBT again. BBT had accused me of rolefishing early on, and in hindsight I thought the "let's get everyone up to L-1" game was rolefishing in its own way.

For the record, I'm back to disliking BBT's technique. If Mofo had realised he was at L-1 he probably would have roleclaimed. Claiming bulletproof on Day 1 means the mafia will never waste a shot trying to night kill him, which makes his power useless. If we'd gone around getting everybody up to L-1 to see how they reacted, we could have outed all of powerroles on Day 1 for no reason at all. I think it would be best if powerroles can keep it a secret until they have some information that can help the town.

[Argos]

Hard to get many strong inclinations from a single manic day of posting but I'll try to spew out some preliminary thoughts here

scummiest thing saad's done so far imo is claim that the ridiculous oxymoron vote he started out with was serious. Even a flighty eight year old isn't going to be pressured by that, let alone while everyone else is doing their random votes. Still, can't get over JUST how dumb it would be to decide to go after the person who had been aggressively fingering you for half the game so far. My read so far for him is "very confusing"

Plotinus seems to be genuinely speaking his mind without much filter which reads town to me, but their opening and closing of the first day spark some minor pings. Asking "did everyone get the role they wanted?" is pretty suspect and the hammer is of course more than unfortunate.

Wanderer seemed genuinely nervous about lynching early, was easily the strongest town read I had when first reading through the thread until I thought it was possible that she was overplaying it to secure town cred as that seemed to be most of her analysis on day one. Still leaning townish.

Want to hear more from Wyvernite.

Singersigner seems oddly quiet considering their IC role, but there's little reason to cite lack of activity this early.

Skold is in a similar situation, posts so far seem somewhat flighty but that could just be due to play-style or state of game.

What we really need is more conversation. Day 1 was obviously a clusterfuck, moving too fast to establish posting patterns and such to my likely. Let the scum bathe themselves in light rather than scatter away.

[Wanderer-nl]

@plotinus: I asked you why

you

thought mofo needed pressure. What I get from your 183 is an explanation on how you thought (and think) about BBT, that's not what I asked.
What was it that made you feel comfortable to sheep BBT's pressure-vote on mofo?

@Argos: Hi, nice to see you! Yeah so day 1 happened pretty quickly and I can understand you don't have any real reads so far.
Reading back, do you see any reason for mofo being under pressure like that?

I had expected singer, wyvernite and skold in by now as well but sadly they're still shimmering in absence (it's a dutch saying)

[Plotinus]

@Wanderer: I had to look over it again to remember, but I think this was the post that BBT made that influenced me the most to jump on mofo.

It would be a ballsy play to call anyone else like that. As far as your alignment, I am inclined to believe saad that you are town.

You're inclined to believe someone you're scum-reading?

What?

@Argos: Wanderer and I played our first newbie game together, and in that game, the scum unvoted to put someone at L-2, waited for someone to put them back at L-1, and then quickhammered every single day, and he managed to convince us all somehow that he was just chaotic-town instead of chaotic-scum. So I have every reason to believe that Wanderer was telling the truth about being nervous about lynching early. I realise you might not want to take my word for this yet when I'm not a townread of yours, but she's my strongest townread at the moment.

@singer: I'm getting two conflicting feelings about voting and maybe you could help me out as IC. On the one hand, our votes are our only tool in this game for putting pressure on people, and showing the rest of the town who are number 1 scumread is. Not voting people we say we're suspicious of shows a lack of commitment or wishywashiness, which is scummy. On the other hand, our votes can be used to lynch each other which ends the day early and cuts off conversation, so we need to be careful with them.

How sure should we be before we vote for somebody once we're out of RVS? Should we only vote if we'd be willing to lynch the person (regardless of where on the wagon we are, so even if we think we're the first vote, we should still only vote if we're okay with seeing that person lynched)?

22% was random chance on day 1, and today we have 28% chance of guessing correctly with random chance. I think we should be more sure than random chance before voting, but I'm not sure how much more sure. How much percent sure should we be before we vote? How much percent sure before we put someone at L-2? at L-1? before we state intent to hammer?

[Plotinus]

right, got sidetracked. To answer the rest of your question, Wanderer, I think that post of BBT's influenced me the most and I did have a slight scumread on mofo at that point. Maybe it wasn't a strong enough for voting, but we were just getting out of RVS so I wasn't very sure of any of my reads yet. When I'm not very sure of anything it's easy to convince me one way or the other, but when BBT picked at that post, the picking made sense to me, even though it wasn't something I would have noticed on my own.

[Wanderer-nl]

So 125 did nothing for you?

Day 1 wasn't because of early voting, it was because of carelessness. TWO people voted without checking/counting votes first. Shit happens, no need to apologize more, but don't blame early voting for it.

[Plotinus]

At the time, I thought BBT's point was better, 125 didn't convince me but it should have. Looking at it again, this quote from mofo jumps out at me: "I was planning to call you out no matter who you jumped to." it seemed like he was saying that he'd be suspicious of BBT no matter what.


Yes, it was carelessness, and that's separate from early voting. The earliness is why my feelings about everyone were still weak, in hindsight perhaps too weak to justify voting at all.

I guess I figured (sheeping BBT) that we'd get him up to L-1 and he'd squirm like saad did and then we'd be able to compare them with each other.

Skold, how are you doing? Who are you townreading at the moment?

[saad]

UNVOTE:

[saad]

i wish to ask the moderator a game related question

[Wanderer-nl]

You can send him a pm if you think you can't ask in thread.

[Plotinus]

If you do wish to ask in thread, be sure to bold it so the moderator will know you are talking to him. Asking privately is fine too though.

[saad]

i'll ask here, in this thread.

[Argos]

At the time, I thought BBT's point was better, 125 didn't convince me but it should have. Looking at it again, this quote from mofo jumps out at me: "I was planning to call you out no matter who you jumped to." it seemed like he was saying that he'd be suspicious of BBT no matter what.


Yes, it was carelessness, and that's separate from early voting. The earliness is why my feelings about everyone were still weak, in hindsight perhaps too weak to justify voting at all.

I guess I figured (sheeping BBT) that we'd get him up to L-1 and he'd squirm like saad did and then we'd be able to compare them with each other.

Skold, how are you doing? Who are you townreading at the moment?

The problem is what exactly did we get from saad squirming? A vanilla townie claim? I may be missing some theory point but the idea of cornering everyone one by one and threatening them with a lynch if they don't claim good for town at all as I think it's more likely for a power role to reveal themselves under pressure than scum just going "ok I'm scum."

[Argos]

At the time, I thought BBT's point was better, 125 didn't convince me but it should have. Looking at it again, this quote from mofo jumps out at me: "I was planning to call you out no matter who you jumped to." it seemed like he was saying that he'd be suspicious of BBT no matter what.


Yes, it was carelessness, and that's separate from early voting. The earliness is why my feelings about everyone were still weak, in hindsight perhaps too weak to justify voting at all.

I guess I figured (sheeping BBT) that we'd get him up to L-1 and he'd squirm like saad did and then we'd be able to compare them with each other.

Skold, how are you doing? Who are you townreading at the moment?

The problem is what exactly did we get from saad squirming? A vanilla townie claim? I may be missing some theory point but the idea of cornering everyone one by one and threatening them with a lynch if they don't claim good for town at all as I think it's more likely for a power role to reveal themselves under pressure than scum just going "ok I'm scum."

"I don't find the idea of cornering everyone one by one and threatening them with a lynch good for town at all" sorry, kind of confusing the way I wrote it at first.

[singersigner]

So I decided to get drunk last night instead of playing this game. I trusted you guys wouldn't make the same mistake.

I'm currently reading up so if I don't give thoughts within the hour...I guess there's not really a threat in there, is there. >_>

[Wanderer-nl]

At the time, I thought BBT's point was better, 125 didn't convince me but it should have. Looking at it again, this quote from mofo jumps out at me: "I was planning to call you out no matter who you jumped to." it seemed like he was saying that he'd be suspicious of BBT no matter what.


Yes, it was carelessness, and that's separate from early voting. The earliness is why my feelings about everyone were still weak, in hindsight perhaps too weak to justify voting at all.

I guess I figured (sheeping BBT) that we'd get him up to L-1 and he'd squirm like saad did and then we'd be able to compare them with each other.

Skold, how are you doing? Who are you townreading at the moment?

The problem is what exactly did we get from saad squirming? A vanilla townie claim? I may be missing some theory point but the idea of cornering everyone one by one and threatening them with a lynch if they don't claim good for town at all as I think it's more likely for a power role to reveal themselves under pressure than scum just going "ok I'm scum."

"I don't find the idea of cornering everyone one by one and threatening them with a lynch good for town at all" sorry, kind of confusing the way I wrote it at first.

There was literally only a little over an hour between saad's claim and plotinus' unexpected hammer on mofo. There never was time to get something decent out of saad.

[Plotinus]

@Argos That's what I think now too. When BBT was doing it it seemed like BBT knew what they were doing but I no longer think it was a good idea. The last paragraph of 183 is my current opinion on this technique. The post you quoted was an attempt to remember what I was thinking at the time at Wanderer's request.

What we got out of saad was not all that convincing, most people seemed to be dropping it not because they believed the claim but just because they wanted to focus on other people too.

Slight town lean on argos for now because I like his contributions so far. I am trying not to townlean him just because of that metaphor at the end of 182 because I know writing evocatively is not indicative of alignment but it's probably influencing my townlean anyway. He also hasn't said anything yet that I disagree with, which is also not alignment indicative but it's nice.