Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Aronis]

Pagetop!

[Gammagooey]

And if you need any more insights, doesn't hesitate to ask!

why do you think singer and bulba are scum?

[Aronis]

Well my Bulba read hasn't really changed at all because he hasn't posted that much recently. [and if he did, titus probably drowned it out]

As far as singer goes, I had thought she was ungenuine earlier and making up reads, but recently my read on her hasn't been that solid.

[fferyllt]

Fferylt also endorsed the TSO wagon with a lot of force, so Fferylt supporting this wagon is not exactly the biggest vote of confidence. I actually really disagree with Fferylt on a lot of her reads/positions this game. I also think that she is doing a poor job of leading this town. I fear we are headed into a dark tunnel with no escape as long as Fferylt is at the helm. I think this is a function of the fact that Fferylt is an IC right now, which tends to skew perceptions of not only the IC itself, but also the other people in the game. No one really is trying to critically discuss the game with Fferylt so when shitty ideas like the TSO wagon are proposed no one is around to say "No, that is actually a shitty idea".

I actually find it disconcerting that we do not have much more interaction from Fferylt's teammates about this game given the fact that they are ALL DEAD. I would expect they would want to funnel all of their thoughts into the game through her given her confirmed town status. But that is a topic for another time. I know I have been neglecting my own teammates' games.

When I read this post on my phone I thought tth had made it.

You are one of my strongest town reads. I'm reaching out to players who disagree with me on stuff and trying to figure out why.

And I've been pretty happy that our reads have been on a steady trajectory of convergence, so I'm curious which reads you feel we differ on.

I'm not posting our current thoughts yet because they haven't completely gelled. We're getting there, though.

[fferyllt]

speaking of tth, I have reached out to you repeatedly. Please engage me. I've got some questions for you over the last few pages, some of which I've asked more than once.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 83 (Major Day 1, VC 45)

(5)

Titus:

Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Untrod Tripod [L-5]
(4)

Aronis:

Gammagooey, Shadoweh, TellTaleHeart, Titus
(2)

singersigner:

mastin2, Aronis
(2)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(1)

Untrod Tripod:

Oversoul
(1)

Shadoweh:

singersigner

(3)

Not Voting:

Formerfish, DeasVail, Bulbazak

With 18 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[Gammagooey]

Well my Bulba read hasn't really changed at all because he hasn't posted that much recently. [and if he did, titus probably drowned it out]

As far as singer goes, I had thought she was ungenuine earlier and making up reads, but recently my read on her hasn't been that solid.

I don't think you ever went into what you were scumreading bulba for, anything earlier in the game?

VOTE: CDB

[Untrod Tripod]

hand and feet inside the wagon, gamma

[fferyllt]

oversoul I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

[Oversoul]

Uh, what, fferyllt?

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't see anything that's faked at all. Mastina's good scum, but you can't fake my wavelength.

Narrow, self-centered, and superficial

[fferyllt]

Uh, what, fferyllt?

What's your read of UT?

[fferyllt]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

[TellTaleHeart]

speaking of tth, I have reached out to you repeatedly. Please engage me. I've got some questions for you over the last few pages, some of which I've asked more than once.

The only one I see is about Esp and I don't think it's a very promising lead because when I looked over his activity, it wasn't as bad as I remember it being. I could pull individual quotes, but that wouldn't be a very good use of time I don't have anyway.

[TellTaleHeart]

ETL, Anti, and I are going to hammer some stuff out tonight.
UNVOTE: until then. ETL's already giving me a town meta read on Aronis.

[Titus]

VOTE: UT

Yeehaw! Let's do it.

TTH, everyone's reads are self-centered. Nothing about my Mastina read is superficial. So I'm not going to take that as an insult.

[singersigner]

With so many people relying on meta, someone somewhere is bound to be wrong. What happened to actually scum-hunting...

Also, the wagons I could get behind at this point are Shadoweh, CDB, AD, (probably Titus but it kind of makes me sick now), UT, and...meh, I dunno...I feel like I'm townreading everyone. -_-

[Gammagooey]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

siiiigh

why

[Titus]

Singer, let's see. Tomorrow for FFery's sake, if we can work out our differences. I liked your recent posting. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on Shadoweh, but can you talk a bit more on CDB. That read I'm kinda iffy on. Just put it point by point.

[Untrod Tripod]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

siiiigh

why

being fferylt is butthurt anyone would dare to second guess her or her wonderful children's reads

[fferyllt]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

siiiigh

why

hold that thought.

I'll either explain or retract in a bit.

[ActionDan]

ActionDan, is this the comment you're referring to? This is the comment that you are asking "Why"?

I didn't answer your why question because I don't think I ever said I had a gut scum read on Espeonage, or at least I can't remember it now and I can't find it in my ISO either. What I am trying to communicate with that bolded comment is that I don't have a read on Espeonage and I would rather go with a wagon where I at least have some basis for a read (my initial gut scum reads). Espeonage has lived comfortably in null land in my perspective of this game. He is a blind spot that I still have not been able to properly address.

I asked in general (from a theoretical perspective) if the move from gut scum read to disliking the wagon would *necessarily* be bad a thing because I don't think I actually did what you think I did in that post. Clearly something about that transition is causing you concern - what is it?

Yes that was the post. I didn't catch the "s" in "reads" I guess since I interpreted that as distancing yourself from a gut scum read on him. If that wasn't the case then I would be concerned because changing reads on a player without explanation is convenient for scum since usually it's not questioned. That said, I still am not sure why you'd hate a wagon on a null player. Most people would feel "whatever" about it.

[ActionDan]

given the quickness and ease compared to the resistance on these main three.

This isn't true for my wagon. I am absolutely sure I was realistically 1-off from a lynch before I started posting

[Oversoul]

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

Agreed 100%.

And don't sweat it, Fferyllt. Happens to everyone.

You are saying "Uncouth is a bad example of my scumplay" and "I play every game the same way". This is contradictory. By your own admission, you play every game the same way, regardless of alignment. ANY example of ANY of your play would then reflect on play. Sure, you could say that this is null, but what you are saying right now appears to me that there IS a difference between 1) your scum play, or else why try to fight on this point and 2) your play across alignments, again, why else would you try to fight this point.

it can still be shitty when you replace into a more-or-less confirmed scum slot late in the game. it cuts of a lot of your options. yeah my tone and approach are pretty much the same, but if you want to know how I would approach something you should pick a game where I am more able to manipulate the gamestate to my faction's advantage. take a look at MS Fantasy Camp 2 if you're into the whole meta thing (which it kind of seems like you are). I'm saying if you want to do some kind of tonal analysis or whatever it gives you a *really* narrow view of my approach as scum because my course was more or less set before I replaced in

I must not be properly explaining why I view this as a contradiction. I'm not interested in your meta, UT. I am interested in you saying X, then saying Y, (which have two completely different conclusions on the same subject) and trying to assert that both opposite conclusions are true.

That said, the contradiction aspect of my post was only one part of it. I completely disproved your defense about moving your vote, and yet you don't address that?

also calling for votes on someone else when you've stated that you want to look at a 1-in-3 group of people of different is pretty ineffective planning and just looks like you're trying to say things you think people want to hear and give yourself license to plop down a vote on one of the big wagons and make it look like some kind of principled stance

and no it's not the list of players, it's that you're putting on airs about it and trying to paint yourself as some kind of leader

you're not

you're just someone saying what literally everyone wants to hear. you've expressed an interest in voting for at least one of everyone's scumreads.

I'm not impressed

1. I am trying to consolidate votes so that a lynch can be properly achieved.
2. I am simultaneously trying to consolidate information about the popular wagons that people

still

have grumblings about (AD, Esp, Singer).

I've already stated that I think Singer is town and I think have made it abundantly clear that I want your lynch above all else UT. It is a principled stance. There is a massive amount of malaise in this game and so many people are trying to do their own thing, all unsuccessfully. Sure, some are trying to form a townbloc but they are doing it with the wrong players and for the wrong reasons.

There are too many low impact players in this game and the few high impact players are not doing what they should be doing in cultivating discussion or useful wagons. I'm trying to bring life back into this game because clearly, judging by the TSO wagon, everyone just wants to be rid of this day.

UT, tell me where I expressed an interest in voting "for at least one of everyone's scumreads". Me telling everyone that these specific people should be the ones voted is not saying I think these people are scum. It is trying to get shit done in the face of people like you who just want complain about the length of the day and vote anything that comes close to lynch.

We are NOT going to waste our second lynch on another person like TSO. This means that Aronis is off the table for lynch today.
The only people that we should be discussing for lynch are ActionDan, Espeonage, Singersigner, Titus, and Untrod Tripod.

"We're only lynching between these people because

I'm

scumreading them."
Titus, and now you?

Excuse me, this goes out to everyone in this game: Who the fuck do you people think you are?

I think pretty much everyone is in need of some form of ego check here.

Again, that isn't what I am saying. I'm not scumreading all of those people. I literally called Singer town in one of my previous posts. Wagon analysis in the context of who votes for who, when, and against what sort competing counter wagons is one of the most useful pieces of information in Mafia.

And to answer your question, I am the hero this town needs.
What is your opinion of UT?

Yes that was the post. I didn't catch the "s" in "reads" I guess since I interpreted that as distancing yourself from a gut scum read on him. If that wasn't the case then I would be concerned because changing reads on a player without explanation is convenient for scum since usually it's not questioned. That said, I still am not sure why you'd hate a wagon on a null player. Most people would feel "whatever" about it.

I hated Espeonage's wagon because of who was on it, not because it was on Espeonage specifically. If it had been Singer with those same people voting I would have hated it just the same. At the time of that post, both UT and CDB were on the wagon and they were my first two main scumreads in this game.

So yeah I don't care if I'm annoying Oversoul by posting. I'm going to try to make this a quality post to explain to you why Mastina is obvious town from my perspective.

More posts like 3474! That was awesome and it is the only thing I'm looking for really.

[Oversoul]

given the quickness and ease compared to the resistance on these main three.

This isn't true for my wagon. I am absolutely sure I was realistically 1-off from a lynch before I started posting

Fair. This gives me an idea though...