13p Normal [TM2015]

[DeltaWave]

If there is a town RB and if they really did block Mala then they shouldn't be outed. Just target someone else next time.

I'm not totally sure that I believe Mala's claim but I'm willing to wait for today. Mala has been a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in an eclair for me all day anyway.

Anyway Boon is an optimal lynch. I've already said my argument about his self-meta, which I find manipulative. If you know enough about your scum meta to relay that to another player, you know enough to act differently. It has literally no utility other than self-preservation, and it was at a time when Boon wasn't even at imminent risk of lynching. Town players usually don't go into self-pres mode until they're right about to be strung up. Town players are more concerned with spotting scum than they are with insisting on their towniness. Just in general, Boon is way more interested in manipulating how people see him than actually hunting down scum. I also see his post 991 (where he calls me "wishy-washy") as an excuse to just drop a vote and have it seem justified.

The only thing that cuts in favor of Boon is post 1372. He reiterates STD's point, how could Mala know that she was RB'ed instead of her target being protected? It's a good question but I don't think it's enough to excuse everything I just wrote above.

VOTE: Boon

[sthar8]

That's a hell of a lot more than one time. You have been overly defensive when questioned today, and openly abusive on anyone who dares disagree with you.

So I will ask you, why so defensive today?

the first two things you quoted are me responding to an argument in kind, and I wasn't the one who escalated it.

the third was a repeated question that i had already explicitly answered. which is... frustrating.

four was a flippant response to an obviously scummy strawman argument founded in ignoring context.

and the rest of them are all me responding to pie's obviously bad, obviously antitown plan. Where she's inexplicably ignoring the relevant discussion in the thread and her counterargument is 'because i said so.'

Am I being abrasive? yeah, and I'm justified. insulting? no more than you're being to me. defensive? I think you need to look that word up.

[pieguyn]

her counterargument is 'because i said so.'

no, my counterargument is that town RB should out because town RB outing is theoretically better - and *if* no town RB outs, we have a basically guaranteed scum lynch today as opposed to fucking around for a day. and you can say "lol, prs shouldn't out" all you want, but the thing is, it really is not that much of a loss - especially if it's something weak like a roleblocker and especially if it belongs to someone who isn't widely regarded as town. it is usually more useful to have the extra information on the table earlier rather than attempting to hold out with it

I don't really care to argue theory with you when you're probably going to disagree with everything I say regardless.

[Boonskiies]

My view of Boon's play this game has been him popping in at random times to say things and not really elaborating when asked.

I was pretty sure of Mala's guilt until the claim I actually did think Boon's defense of mala was due to them both potentially being scum. I haven't really updated that in my reads. I'm still not exactly sure where the town read on Mala comes from other than his team. I original thought his decision to defer to his team's reads to not lynch thor made him look town, considering he's doing it again wrt mala gives me a little pause.

But really there's not a lot of people I'd feel comfortable lynching today. Boon is one but I don't really have a reason or the time to make a great case (nor do I think there is a slam dunk to be had even if I did). I would compromise on people.

pedit: aw thanks

This is the most active I've been in a game this early in in weeks....

[pieguyn]

like, literally the only reason it might be better for town RB not to out is that if we *do* lynch scum today RB becomes op as shit with only 1 scum left

but even then you have the issue of how far it can get while still getting useful results, and what happens if it randomly gets killed without outing them (you can say "crumb" all you want, but scum are as likely to see it as town are, so it will likely to go shit after getting the first result anyway) - and since we have a bodyguard in the game, we can still do pretty well with it even if it claims

and I'd bet a fair amount that Mala is just lying here and it's all a moot point regardless

the only reason I'm not outright forcing this is bc it looks like a majority of players don't agree with me on principle on this. so, meh

[pieguyn]

there's also play reasons that factor into it due to how Thor happened D1 (ex: I'd probably quit this game if STD winds up being scum, I feel similarly about TH. I'm not quite at such a high level with jason, but I similarly feel jason is strongly town) - if you have a bunch of people who are strongly town already, you don't need to clear as many extra people on top of that in order to win.

and as I said I realize there's not much point in spending time talking about this, but the point is: it's not really as "anti-town" as you think and I'm not just ignoring you/SK talking about it

[pieguyn]

like, I don't intend to argue with you over this or anything

just please don't feel like I'm blatantly ignoring your posts. I'm not.

[SleepyKrew]

@Bins
Why were you scumreading Mala after D1?

[Malakittens]

Sigh, I was getting ready for mafia and then my mom just started talking about Little Grey, so I'm not exactly happy anymore, more sad because ~reasons~. So my next set of replies will be swift.

Trojan, you're right. It's entirely possible Jason and Thor cross bussed and both fakeclaimed power roles right before deadline. But I'm not really entertaining that on Day 2. Maybe later in the game if all of my scum reads flip town and we're completely stuck, it's something I'd look at. But for right now, I'm considering Jason obvtown and nowhere near my lynch pool. Pie makes a pretty good point about him not being counterclaimed too.

So. Mala's claim. Hmm. In a normal setup where there can't be a SK, that's actually a very provable claim. That is, unless scum keep RBing her or she claims as much. I dunno. Pie, what do you think?

I'm not sure I like this. We aren't even sure Pie is town, chances of her being town are high, but she's not confirmed. I don't like the fact you needed her thoughts before making your own.

Why would you shoot me D:

Because I really don't see you as town. I'll shoot you again tonight if I live.

I think SK is likely town

This was less than 2 hours before the D1 deadline btw

I mean there was a scum flip and I hadn't had that information during the two hours before deadline. You were looking a bit town then, but after the thor-scum flip you looked scummier. Of all the people on the Thor wagon it made more sense for you to be the scum partner bussing. Things that others said/interacted didn't make sense as them being scum. The only other possibility for scum on the Thor-wagon is Egg.

My current theory is that scum Mala forgot that she only started pushing me D2

Lolno.

If the flip D1 was town, I probably wouldn't have shot at all during the night, however, I was trying to kill someone who I thought was likely scum on the Thor-wagon.

@Mala - does being role blocked use up the shot. Or since it was blocked, do you still have this shot.

While my team agrees the actual shot number is not important, it is important to know if it is 1 shot or more than 1 shot.

I still have the shot, which is why I was sure that I was rb'd and not SK being a BP. If he was a BP and sucked my shot I wouldn't have gotten it back.

It's more than 1 shot.

I think SK is likely town

This was less than 2 hours before the D1 deadline btw

well shit, I agree on something with SK, looking further into it

I usually don't crumb Vig roles because of ~history~. I did crumb opening of D2 I wanted to sort SK but it didn't go as planned, but other than that no. I didn't crumbthis game.

Oh and I was trying to sort out SK last night, but my rereading didn't bring anything productive.

from town right before end of D1, to reading to sort... to a vig attempt N1.

What changed between the final hours of D1, your re-read to 'sort' SK but couldn't get anything productive, to the submission of a kill on someone you couldn't 'sort' with a re-read and then attampted to kill.

Work us through the process of being town, to a vig target.

Well the post before day ended was not having the information of a scum flip. I didn't really know how to word, "Hey guys I tried shooting SK, but failed because I was highly likely RB'd". I mean I am known to be really cocky and arrogant after I shoot (correctly) and it becomes obnoxiously apparent I'm a vig. I usually don't let people know I'm shooting a top scum read, I usually go after my third scum read or someone in my null pile if I'm confident they are scum. I have had a recent completed game where I was town and someone said "hey mala thoughts on lynching this person?" this person I knew was 100% scum and I was "like nah they aren't on my lynch pile today, so move on we aren't lynching there", vigged them during the night and they flipped scum.

[Save The Dragons]

This is the most active I've been in a game this early in in weeks....

I'm not trying to be confirm biasy or rude, but this post was useless in the wake of everything that's going on and really doesn't defend against the fact that you pop in and say weird things and disappear when you pop in to say something weird and disappear as your defense to the fact that you don't pop in and say weird things and disappear.

[Bins]

@Bins
Why were you scumreading Mala after D1?

i'm not? well, kind of. i don't like her position on the thor wagon at all. from what i have of "reads", she is on the lower half.

i'm also heavily going off Vyse's reads since i'm definitely not going to get good reads before DL - like i'm heading to bed now and will be up in the morning to see the wagon. which is why i just wanted to make clear that in between Delta/Mala... Mala looked worse.

[Boonskiies]

This is the most active I've been in a game this early in in weeks....

I'm not trying to be confirm biasy or rude, but this post was useless in the wake of everything that's going on and really doesn't defend against the fact that you pop in and say weird things and disappear when you pop in to say something weird and disappear as your defense to the fact that you don't pop in and say weird things and disappear.

Point? Not alignment indicative. Thanks for confirming that. And showing you're pushing for the exact reasoning anyways.

[Boonskiies]

When I have something to say, I'll say it. A lot of times I don't have anything to say, yet I still want to post.

[Malakittens]

@Bins
Why were you scumreading Mala after D1?

i'm not? well, kind of. i don't like her position on the thor wagon at all. from what i have of "reads", she is on the lower half.

i'm also heavily going off Vyse's reads since i'm definitely not going to get good reads before DL - like i'm heading to bed now and will be up in the morning to see the wagon. which is why i just wanted to make clear that in between Delta/Mala... Mala looked worse.

It would be great if you actually looked at the most recent posts and commented on that.

I have claimed, you sort of have made no comments on it, nor have you read what Pie v STD v Sthar8 that's going on right now.

[Trojan Horse]

Wow. Lots of things happen while I'm at work, apparently.

I've caught up, and I'm assembling my thoughts. I don't believe Mala's claim, and I'm probably going to vote for her.

Details in a moment...

[Malakittens]

Sigh, I really don't see this play on boon's coming from scum. He's being too cocky for scum and from games it just seems like his playstyle makes him more likely mislynchable bait. :\ Maybe I'm indifferent because I met him during Titus' meet and I seem to be able to read people better after playing with them in F2F because I understand what their thought processes are during then. I mean I used F2F meta in the past and it was totally right (on Singer and Titus in past games).

[Bins]

i don't know how to feel about the claim. i usually don't. i don't think it's going to stop my read on you if i have two days to catch up and pick between two wagons.

i saw people getting mad and i nope'd out because i don't want to deal with it right now when i'm already busy enough. i might just sheep STD. pie looks town. and sthar was town to Vyse but he's more null town to me.

[Bins]

i might just sheep STD. pie looks town. and sthar was town to Vyse but he's more null town to me.

these are, like most of my reads, very weak/not confident.

[Save The Dragons]

Roleblocker is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that blocked X-Shot roles are not refunded

I still have the shot, which is why I was sure that I was rb'd and not SK being a BP.

...uh

VOTE: Mala

[Save The Dragons]

Point? Not alignment indicative. Thanks for confirming that. And showing you're pushing for the exact reasoning anyways.

Spoiler:

[Malakittens]

That's saying if it was in fact a RB'r. I was just thinking it was a RB'r, but yeah I got my shot back so w/e

I don't really care anymore. This game is too fucking hardheaded for their own good. I really only stayed in this fucking game because of the role I got, not because of the players, not because of the mod, not because of normals.. If I wanted out I could have easily let Iec replace me when my cat died, I could have. I thought about it, but I decided to stick in w/ this game and my other games.

[pieguyn]

GJ STD

[Malakittens]

i don't know how to feel about the claim. i usually don't. i don't think it's going to stop my read on you if i have two days to catch up and pick between two wagons.

i saw people getting mad and i nope'd out because i don't want to deal with it right now when i'm already busy enough. i might just sheep STD. pie looks town. and sthar was town to Vyse but he's more null town to me.

that's the thing you don't have two days to catch up.

the deadline is in 14 fucking hours, 14 hours and your slot has been a non-conformity for the whole game. This game literally hasn't been a pleasurable experience. We have lurkers who decide to just coast, we have those who are not even playing for the most part and we have people who decides that strongarming lynches are the greatest things possible.

[sthar8]

VOTE: mala works for me

pie, you can't say that you don't care what my opinion is and then tell me to not feel like you're ignoring me. And I'm terrified that we're going into tomorrow with you having basically no scumreads but still not agreeing to reexamine your play even if you're right.

[Save The Dragons]

*hug Mala*