NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[elusive]

KC, I'm reading this game on USMB (http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/o ... 038/page-8) - Is there a way to ISO you on it?

[House]

KC, I'm reading this game on USMB (http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/o ... 038/page-8) - Is there a way to ISO you on it?

Click Search. Type her name, click "Find all by member" (or some such).

It's easy once you get started.

[Klingoncelt]

KC, I'm reading this game on USMB (http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/o ... 038/page-8) - Is there a way to ISO you on it?

Click Search. Type her name, click "Find all by member" (or some such).

It's easy once you get started.

I've never had any luck at all with that site's search functions.

[Klingoncelt]

Rubicon is like that person or star or thing that makes you think everything is going to be okay. <3

KlingonCelt, I'm looking at your recent Newbie town game right now and trying to find other most recent scum games.

Can you give a sense of where your reads are right now? Beyond the Nero thing, what are your thoughts on the state of the game?

I was in Mastin's Hilariously Unbalanced 2.

There were 3 Scumteams and a red herring team. I was the Hippie Scumteam Fruit Vendor.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60385

Our Scum PT:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60322

[Klingoncelt]

Can you give a sense of where your reads are right now? Beyond the Nero thing, what are your thoughts on the state of the game?

I think the game's falling apart.

Usually D1 ends with a Townie getting lynched, and on Day 2 an ambitious player or two generally jump(s) in to lead the way.

Your Townbloc is very weak, you're the only one really working hard. (I do think Grin and Rubicon are Town, however.)

Basically we need more input from more players. Myself, House, Nero, and Ricastle throwing poop at each other isn't advancing the game at all.

But we don't have much else going on by way of conversation in here.

[elusive]

I think people don't understand town block, its still early on and anyway {}.

I'm waiting for Ricastle to provide a solid case on why he's voting you. A rational and calm one.

Also looked at another game of your's on here KC, and you can be good as town in terms of hunting. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Nero and House and that spectacle.

Others need to post more and reads.

Bellaphant, you question people voting KC which is why I said soft defending. What do you think about her wagon and the people on it?

[Ricastle]

I'm waiting for Ricastle to provide a solid case on why he's voting you. A rational and calm one.

This is the last time I will do this for you. If the following doesn't count as 'rational and calm' then you can get out of here.

Klingon FoSed Nero on the basis that he has a chance of being scum, and seemingly nothing more. (1245) She then went on to make out Nero was obsessing over it, which was suddenly the reason she was FoSing him? (1358) And then after some pressing from me & Nero she says that the reason she was suspecting Nero was because she didn't like how he dragged on the argument with House and was obsessing over him. (1377) After Nero then asked why she wasn't also FoSing House for it, she said she actually was FoSing House. However, it seems like the only reason for that is that her and House scumread eachother every game; even when she thinks House is town. (1384) (1387) (1475) This proves that it's not to be taken seriously, and was nothing more than an excuse used to avoid explaining why she isn't FoSing House over his obsession of Nero and dragging out the argument, of which they both did equally. After I called her out on all this she made some absurd threats which certainly does not look like town behaviour. (1391)

Long story short, Klingon panned suspicion onto Nero for no reason, used the subsequent events to try and justify it, and continuously avoided giving any further reasoning. When she did give reasoning, it was undermined instantly, and when she couldn't defend it, she devolved into OMGUSing and strawmanning until elusive showed up with an ACTUAL chainsaw.

Oh, and for non-recent events, we have 755, 881, 889, and 923 all in conjunction. She starts by attacking me on the basis that the townbloc is obvtown, then opportunistically jumping on "obvtown" Grib when he makes an obvious joke post, and for a time is apparently fine with lynching both me and Grib, despite the reason for her suspecting me being that Grib is obvtown. She immediately retracts her hasty read when I press her on it.

[Rubicon]

Grib, on a scale from 1-10 confidence how confirmed town is davesaz? I had him as townish early on, but he's been coasting a lot day 2.

Players posting a lot day one and then starting to lurk is a firm scum tell.

Forget I said that part.

please explain you sitting back, making comments, pushing things forward but not really engaging- too much 1v1 is an excuse...

Agreed.

bellaphant is cautious scum, asking a few probing questions here and there to look like she's scumhunting, but not doing anything to stick her neck out or drive the game forward.

Also the way she buddied up to Ricastle for asking people to consolidate on a wagon looked very suspicious to me.

Rubicon is like that person or star or thing that makes you think everything is going to be okay. <3

hey!
Sorry for lurking so much in the game you invited me to play.

I feel like my townread on you is probably correct. Which players should I be looking more closely at? Ricastle?

[Rubicon]

I'm going to read the fuck out of your case right now, ricastle.

[Rubicon]

Hm. I kind of like it.

KC, please reply to Ricastle's case on you. And explain why you haven't already.

[Rubicon]

Why don't you explain the case rationally without sounding like a bit crazed?

Klingon FoSed Nero on the basis that he has a chance of being scum, and seemingly nothing more. (1245) She then went on to make out Nero was obsessing over it, which was suddenly the reason she was FoSing him? (1358) And then after some pressing from me & Nero she says that the reason she was suspecting Nero was because she didn't like how he dragged on the argument with House and was obsessing over him. (1377) After Nero then asked why she wasn't also FoSing House for it, she said she actually was FoSing House. However, it seems like the only reason for that is that her and House scumread eachother every game; even when she thinks House is town. (1384) (1387) (1475) This proves that it's not to be taken seriously, and was nothing more than an excuse used to avoid explaining why she isn't FoSing House over his obsession of Nero and dragging out the argument, of which they both did equally. After I called her out on all this she made some absurd threats which certainly does not look like town behaviour. (1391)

Long story short, Klingon panned suspicion onto Nero for no reason, used the subsequent events to try and justify it, and continuously avoided giving any further reasoning. When she did give reasoning, it was undermined instantly, and when she couldn't defend it, she devolved into OMGUSing and strawmanning until elusive showed up with an ACTUAL chainsaw.

Oh, and for non-recent events, we have 755, 881, 889, and 923 all in conjunction. She starts by attacking me on the basis that the townbloc is obvtown, then opportunistically jumping on "obvtown" Grib when he makes an obvious joke post, and for a time is apparently fine with lynching both me and Grib, despite the reason for her suspecting me being that Grib is obvtown. She immediately retracts her hasty read when I press her on it.

I guess this has been talked about to death by now, but that original reason for FoS-ing Nero still doesn't make much sense to me. And the sequence of posts listed in the last paragraph above... I really don't understand the progression there.

And

I'm wary of someone automatically accepting the "town block" as obvious town - the reasoning for it being town could apply to me (would I risk it as scum?) but from KC's perspective that shouldn't make the other two obvious town.

[Rubicon]

1245 and 755 seem incongruous. One is excessively paranoid, the other is excessively trusting.

[Rubicon]

@nero, 321 is a LOT of scum-reads. Apart from the mostly in actives, can you talk to me about klingoncelt?

@house, talk to me about your read on ricastle and klingoncelt?

re:kc, her posts over the last page or so have also seemed really off.She's pinging hard for me. Thanks.

I'm up for it.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Anyways, how do people feel about my exchange between PointYBagelS and myself in post 1259 and 1265?

Eh, I dunno how I feel about this vote. Your quote post doesn't really show progression in your thoughts: maybe you should summarise your case?

KC: Reading through, some of her posts didn't read right: I was unsure if this was just tone, but her posting around the second half of the 30s was really pinging for me. After the lynch, when pressure started, she seems to be flailing. I've read her scum-link (providing the link seems towny, but could be a double bluff) and she seems to be having a bit more fun as scum? But that could be game specific, and her lack of strong reads here is pretty terrible

My pet theory is that these posts are an attempt at distancing and light bussing.

It started early, like distancing would.

Despite this suspicion, all her questions are directed toward others

about

KC, instead of toward KC herself.

Additionally she has never voted KC even now as a wagon is building.

[davesaz]

Dave's brain can't come to the forum right now, it's fully engaged with a work issue.

[Klingoncelt]

Hm. I kind of like it.

KC, please reply to Ricastle's case on you. And explain why you haven't already.

He has no case.

He's WKing Nero.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House. In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

Ricastle, however, has gone into my Scum pile.

[Klingoncelt]

Despite this suspicion, all her questions are directed toward others

about

KC, instead of toward KC herself.

Additionally she has never voted KC even now as a wagon is building.

Because he wants to avoid suspicion when I flip Town.

[Klingoncelt]

KC, I'm reading this game on USMB (http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/o ... 038/page-8) - Is there a way to ISO you on it?

Just a quick note on that one - I was very sick while playing and not at my best. Or even at mediocre. I sucked in that game.

[Ricastle]

He has no case.

He's WKing Nero.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House. In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

Ricastle, however, has gone into my Scum pile.

lmao. Bullshit at its finest.

Why is your scumread on House justified pertaining to THIS game?

[Nero Cain]

He's WKing Nero.

no

TBF to KC, its not some cray cray line of logic for her to be always suspicious of House.

but....this remains to be the problem, she scum read me b/c I believed that House was scum. Yet that applies to EVERYONE in this game that was confident in their read, including House who was confident that Skold would flip scum. It is both selective and vague AND she has not explained WHY it is scummier for me to be confident on a read and its not a scumtell for anyone else.

Things Nero needs to do:

Explain why House is scum.
Explain his reads list that I did a few pages ago.

I've just been really lazy though but so far I am perfectly ok with a KC lynch.

[Klingoncelt]

He has no case.

He's WKing Nero.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House. In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

Ricastle, however, has gone into my Scum pile.

lmao. Bullshit at its finest.

Why is your scumread on House justified pertaining to THIS game?

As has been said repeatedly, he and I have a history. We own it. Deal.

[Klingoncelt]

He's WKing Nero.

no

TBF to KC, its not some cray cray line of logic for her to be always suspicious of House.

but....this remains to be the problem, she scum read me b/c I believed that House was scum. Yet that applies to EVERYONE in this game that was confident in their read, including House who was confident that Skold would flip scum. It is both selective and vague AND she has not explained WHY it is scummier for me to be confident on a read and its not a scumtell for anyone else.

Things Nero needs to do:

Explain why House is scum.
Explain his reads list that I did a few pages ago.

I've just been really lazy though but so far I am perfectly ok with a KC lynch.

If I thought you were making a case against House it would bug me as much. Like maybe 1% less.

But you went on and on and on with the argument, just like you're going on and on and on arguing with me.

It smells like flail.

[Klingoncelt]

*

would not

bug me as much.

[Rubicon]

He's WKing Nero.

Not really. I think the problem is that your posts about Nero don't make sense. Someone calling you out for not making sense isn't white-knighting, even if they are attacking your read on another player.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House.

That isn't a good summary of his case on you. Would you respond to 1561 point by point?

In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

My experience with Nero says he very often gets into 1v1s with other players when he's town. Confident reads are his playstyle.

Because he wants to avoid suspicion when I flip Town.

...This doesn't make a lot of sense either.

But does this mean you think Bellaphant is mafia?

[Nero Cain]

@celt-How else do you expect to read people if you don't poke and prod at their inconsistencies? Its possible that House is just not very good or does scummy things to pad his scum meta but I really don't feel like "OMG NERO IS CONFIDENT IN HIS SCUM READ...THAT'S SO SCUMMY!" is very good reasoning b/c again...IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE. And now you are changing the narrative that you didn't like how long the argument went on and that I was "flailing"

I'm ok with you dying.

[Grib]

Grib, on a scale from 1-10 confidence how confirmed town is davesaz? I had him as townish early on, but he's been coasting a lot day 2.

Players posting a lot day one and then starting to lurk is a firm scum tell.

Forget I said that part.

10