NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[Creative]

I read strongly

Nero

as town for the interactions of this page.

[Creative]

oops, previous page now!

[Klingoncelt]

He's WKing Nero.

Not really. I think the problem is that your posts about Nero don't make sense. Someone calling you out for not making sense isn't white-knighting, even if they are attacking your read on another player.

The "case" is that I scumread Nero but not House, when in fact I always scumread House.

That isn't a good summary of his case on you. Would you respond to 1561 point by point?

In this game I'm not scumreading House as much as I am Nero. I have Nero ever so slightly

leaning

scum. But they're both grey.

My experience with Nero says he very often gets into 1v1s with other players when he's town. Confident reads are his playstyle.

Because he wants to avoid suspicion when I flip Town.

...This doesn't make a lot of sense either.

But does this mean you think Bellaphant is mafia?

"Someone calling you out for not making sense isn't white-knighting, even if they are attacking your read on another player."

The problem is that mine was a soft read.

Nero and Ricastle both made a HUGE mountain out of a molehill.

In any other game what I typed would have been ignored or considered fluff. I can't fucking believe everyone is taking my look at nero so fucking seriously.

Maybe if I were jumping up and down screaming for his lynch based on next to nothing, yeah, sure I could see a case there, but right now all I see are Ricastle and Nero making noise around me.


"But does this mean you think Bellaphant is mafia?"

Yes, I do, actually. Something's off about him.

House can tell you that when I get that "something's off" feeling, I'm almost always right.

[Nero Cain]

So then why are you not pushing that "somethings off" feeling?

[Vampirate]

Alright, I guess I should explain my read on PointyBagelS: Keep in mind, my wagon was pretty much the consensus agreed upon lynch before House showed up.

I still think House is scummy

, but there's an obvious scum among us and it isn't House.

This game seems like it is stalling a little bit. I realize it is still early in the day, but my gut wants to say that scum is demotivated by the night kill and has become less involved in the game because of it. This leaves 2 people as standing out as scummy for being a bit less active than they were on day 1. Xayzeck and Vampirate. Arguably Rubicon can be considered a part of this group as well, but his few posts today seem pretty town-ish so I doubt he's scum. This is obviously not a legitimate way to scumread, but it is a good place to start, I think.

I've now reread both of their ISOs, and it is

pretty clear that Vampirate is scum

.

Vampirate seems to have legitimately scumread 2 people, Skold and Xayzeck

(plus Ricastle, to an extent).

Despite calling Xayzeck out for being anti-town, he never changes his vote.

While I understand the worry that Xayzeck might be an easy mislynch due to his lurkiness,

I don't understand why a town-Vampirate wouldn't think the same of Skold

,

who also lurked through most of his wagon

. This double standard to me implies that he's not legitimately scumreading anyone, and is just putting up appearances.

Additionally, Vampirate has done very little, if any, actual scumhunting. He's asked questions but nothing really substantial. Mostly he's just asked people to clarify what they were saying.

So we have someone who reaches questionable conclusions, has not scumhunted,

replaced in for someone who was already scummy

, is borderline lurking. If quacks like a duck...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vampirate

Alright, so let's review some facts here. As stated, because of Jbomber's questionable posts before my arrival I was the must lynch before House showed up.

Now, lets review the bold shall we.

Bold 1. Pointy thinks House is scummy

Bold 2. Pointy thinks i'm sure scum. (this implies both of House and I are probably on a scum team)

Bold 3. I've stated time and time again, I found Xay to be anti-town, I never said scummy. Everyone should know the reason why I voted Skold by now, survival, that's it. In Bold 3, Pointy is straight out lying. Also, i'm laughing at how Pointy thinks I LEGIT scum read both Skold and Xay.

Bold 4. If I find someone anti-town, does it mean I find them scummy? If I don't find someone scummy, why vote for them?

Bold 5. Using meta to back up an argument in which is the first time we were in the same game. Using meta for starting an argument is bad imo, but that's my opinion.

Bold 6. Skold was pretty outspoken actually, in fact it was Skolds really outgoing behavoir that got him lynched. Another lie. Double Standard huh.

Bold 7. Oh hey i'm scumhunting you and using actual facts, you're using assumtions and lies. YMMV.

Bold 8. Do I sense you are trying to use Jbomber to make me an easy lynch there?

Also going to quote these 2 parts, cause it's gold

Vampirate seems to have legitimately scumread 2 people

This double standard to me implies that he's not legitimately scumreading anyone

What?

And the result here?

A vote on me, you make the call.

Anyways there's MORE

You never said you were scumreading Xay

, but in 991

you did say that Xayzeck was doing something anti town. Admittedly anti town is not scummy

but they go hand in hand

.

As for house, I'm still null-scum reading him

,

but at the very least he acted in a way that isn't impossible for town.

I'm absolutely also scumreading Xay, for many of the same reason. Don't think that just because you're the one I voted for means he's off the hook. If people would rather wagon him I'd probably switch, but at the moment I am finding you scummier.

What are your thoughts on Xay right now?

Bold 9. LOL, you just admitted right there you lied and are backing it up with shit.

Bold 10. You are just helping my argument here.

Bold 11. Trying to dig our way out froma previous lie are we?

Bold 12. Null-scum, sounds very grey, no clear statement here.

Bold 13. Ok so House HARD defending me is not impossible for town, but if I do it, oh no, it's impossible for Vamp to be town, Vamp is certain scum, uh huh.

Bold 14. I already gave my thoughts on Xay before, anti-town atm, grey area, not enough to just vote over some other people i'm legit scum reading.

Klingon seemed to be digging herself into a bit of a hole but Nero did the same a few pages ago and I still think he's town.

I'll give you that Klingon doesn't seem to be "easy lynch" material like Skold was so I'm less inclined to think she's town there.

However, the fact that the wagon popped up after you got 2 votes makes me wonder if it is scum driven. This is especially because you and Ricastle were the ones to push it.

1333 also looks like you are trying to cast me as scum simply because I am voting you.

Ricastle is looking scummier by the minute, and I might change my vote, but regardless of his alignment your hard defense of him does not make me think you're town.

Ricastle was sk hunting, trying to undermine a townbloc, and part of 2 separate counterwagons to you though. I think we may have found a scumteam. I dont like calling a scumteam before a flip, but the sheer amount of interaction between you two makes me more ok with it.

Bold 15. Oh hey, so if I think she's digging a bit of a hole and find her suspicious, does that mean i'm scumhunting? Or am I not doing that legitimately enough? Also, you are plain and simply using Nero to make KC look towny here.

Bold 16. Ok, so now you're making the scum team Ricastle and myself? What happened to House? Oh no, you're null-scum reading him last time I checked. I'll get to Bold 16 later.

Bold 17. No, I find you scummy from all the bolds I did, not that you voted me, but WHY you voted me.

Bold 18. Again, my hard defense is scummy, but House hard defense....hmmmm null-scum.

Bold 19. Again, House started the whole counter wagon thing, you find Ricaslte's and myself scummy interations, but House is still Null-scum? Oh because it's possible for town. So you're implying it isn't possible for one of or both of Ricasltle and myself to be town?


There's more.

I'm pretty null on house.

Bold 20. Oh so House magically went from scummy to null-scum to just null, I wonder why.

You had barely posted, House was defending jbomber, who had also barely posted. I thought he was scummy but I can understand why house wouldn't.

House was defending me, more than he was defending jBomber, i'll bring up House posts to back this up if you'd like, also House is STILL defending me.

I'd also like to point out that I opened the day by voting house.

And this is relevant how?

I find you and ricastle to be much scummier right now.

Well ok, your case still doesn't make sense and smells of lies and corruption.

but Nero did the same a few pages

What whole did I dig myself?

You might want to answer Nero's question here, also you're using someone else to justify another's scummy behavoir.

You got into a rather long semantic argument with house that didn't make you look too good. It arguably obscured/prevented actual discussion.

This is the only thing I agree on, Nero's and House arguments are Anti-Townish, IT STILL DOESN'T GIVE A GOOD REASON TO FoS OVER IT!



And now finally my conclusion.


House defended me pretty much as soon as he came in and is still defending me now got the lynch changed from myself to Skold, Ricastle changed his vote sometime in there.

Now people are clumping Ricastle and myself as part of a scum team because i'm hard defending house. Fine I get it.

Here's the thing, House started the whole counter wagon thing and he went from scummy to null scum to just null very quickly.

The reason?

@ PointyBagelS: Serious question, do you think House is scum? He was directly the person who hard defended me on Day 1 and got the wagon from jbomber/myself changed to Skold.

Because this question right here just fucks up his case against me.


If Ricastle and myself are part of a scum team, why is House not under suspicion, even now, why is House Null here? House STILL thinks i'm Town, and I can prove it easily.

You are telling me that Pointy thinks me defending Ricaslte is super suspicious yet House, who defended me, called me town, got the actual wagon to lynch changed from myself to Skold, and is still defending me, oh he's null, or null-scum. Why? Because it's possible for it to be townish behavoir.

You make the call on this.


Other ways to take it?

You might think Ricastle, Vamp and House are all scum and blatently changed the vote from myself to Skold, kinda sounds really reckless for scum don't you think and really convenient for town.

You might think House is town and he just really thinks i'm town as well, great, super, so why the bias then? Why is it towny for one scenario but scummy for another?

[Vampirate]

On a lighter note people

Bella = Female
Klingoncelt = Female
Elusive = Female
Vampirate = Male

How hard is it to look at the pronouns?

Now back to arguing.

[elusive]

[elusive]

Rubicon It's confusing, the people I think are scummy others find un-scummy.

So, I looked at Klingoncelt in ISO and I don't find her as scummy as others are seeing her.

She was suspicious or felt something off about Nero. So have I actually because he went after Boonskiies the lurksack of all ages and either 1) He really thought Boon was scum or 2) It was a test wagon. Either way where did all that effort and excessive focus go today? Then he went after House and engaged in another dance to the death except that neither is wagoned (as in the case of Nero vs. Boon).

I also don't find Ricastle's case to be very strong. In fact it relies pretty much on KC not being able to explain clearly why she finds Nero weird. I read his case three times to make sure I could look at it objectively (and negate the frothing) and I still don't find it interesting. The fact that he isn't asking her anything else is also weird. Like why not ask her for her reads or what her thoughts are on specific players?

Like KC, what is your read of Bellaphant? What about Vampirate?

Bellaphant does soft-defend KlingonCelt although I have to look at her in ISO a little more carefully later this week.

Looking over at the wagons, certain people strike me off but Kitz pinged me as different day one and her replace hasn't done anything so:

VOTE: RationalMadman]/v]

Hi there, need to hear more from you. A lot more.

Creative, want to expand and let town into your thoughts overall?

Vampirate, I looked at about half of your case before feeling sleepy. I just want to clarify that PointyBagels pointed out that Skold was lurking once he was wagoned - he pretty much stopped talking afterwards so that point is actually to him and he's correct. I'll parse through the rest later.

[elusive]

VOTE: RationalMadman

[elusive]

Actually, House what is your read on KC and why?

[Boonskiies]

I never pushed Nero; there was no Nero vs Boon. I think he's town. Nero's one of my strongest town reads.

House v Nero is TvT.

[Boonskiies]

I didn't think Kitz did anything to be scummy really. Kitz is who House, replaced, correct? Foxy girl? Yeah. I made a joke comment about her being scum, but that was it.

[Boonskiies]

Hmm, nope. Rational is who replaced Kitz. What's a Rational? I look up now.

[Boonskiies]

Actually, House what is your read on KC and why?

Hmm...why do you want his read on Klingon? You're voting Rational.

(trying to throw myself into the game, bear with me...haha).

[Klingoncelt]

So then why are you not pushing that "somethings off" feeling?

Okay, I can do that.

VOTE: Bellephant

[Ricastle]

As has been said repeatedly, he and I have a history. We own it. Deal.

This is why I am voting you.

I'll ask again. Is there anything House has actually done in this game to make you scumread him or is it entirely based on your history?

[Ricastle]

"Someone calling you out for not making sense isn't white-knighting, even if they are attacking your read on another player."

The problem is that mine was a soft read.

Nero and Ricastle both made a HUGE mountain out of a molehill.

In any other game what I typed would have been ignored or considered fluff. I can't fucking believe everyone is taking my look at nero so fucking seriously.

Maybe if I were jumping up and down screaming for his lynch based on next to nothing, yeah, sure I could see a case there, but right now all I see are Ricastle and Nero making noise around me.

You outright said you FoSed Nero. How is that not to be taken seriously?

Can you explain the significant difference between pushing for a lynch based on nothing and FoSing based on nothing, and why one is acceptable while the other is not?

[Ricastle]

Boon, why is Rubicon scum?

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

Klingoncelt

(5):

Boonskiies, Vampirate, Ricastle, Nero Cain, Rubicon

Bellaphant

(2):

PeaceBringer, Klingoncelt

RationalMadman

(2):

Errantparabola, elusive

Vampirate

(1):

PointYBagelS

PeaceBringer

(1):

Grib

Nero Cain

(1):

House

Not Voting

(5):

Bellaphant, davesaz, RationalMadman, Creative, Xayzeck

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-06 11:00:00)

[Klingoncelt]

As has been said repeatedly, he and I have a history. We own it. Deal.

This is why I am voting you.

I'll ask again. Is there anything House has actually done in this game to make you scumread him or is it entirely based on your history?

I answered that. History.




And with that I'm done with Nero and Ricastle. Their insipid tunneling makes this Townie lose interest in the game.

If someone else has questions I'll be happy to answer.

[Ricastle]

I answered that. History.

Then you've proven my point.

[elusive]

No, Ricastle you seem to be missing the point that's obvious.

Repeating the same weak statement doesn't make it true.

Why are you calling KC out for her personal history with House and not Nero for his nonsense with Boon or then House?

Haye you meta-ed KC, as you mentioned you did for Grib, and what did you notice?

[Ricastle]

And not reading my posts doesn't make you understand them. I have already provided answers to both those questions.

[elusive]

I read your post where you stated you only care about meta when its being used to excuse player actions. I am reading your posts and find them to be inconsistent. In this case, where KC is saying that she has 1 vs 1 with House and a different relationship with him as a player that seems antagonistic why haven't you read any of her games to confirm if this is true.

Next, I suggest that you remand your tone, I've been being a lot calmer because Rubicon is in this game and he gives off auras of peace but you've reached the end of the line and the grace period has ended.

[elusive]

Do a meta dive on KC or ask her or House for links to games and tell me what you see, Ricastle.