Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 11-15

Against my better judgment, I'm still giggling over this post. I probably wouldn't have bothered noting this if I had found something else to point up until now, but all these lists of who-would-be-what-roles aren't interesting me very much at the present.

ABR has just said the thing I was wondering about. Interested in why Yos seemed leery to even bother with the White House Liaison.

[Kinetic]

White house liaison, imho, is useless or at very least not especially important. Seriously, we should have used State Department in the beginning because it had an investigation type ability similar to the FBIs. I think some people read the White House thing and pigeon holed it before even reading everything.

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 16-20

Guardian piques my curiosity in this post. Why is OTM in the "don't trust" section? How did CTD suddenly get to the "knows what he is doing and is probably town section"? I was under the impression that he thought everybody who acted as if they didn't get role PMs were town, which would include OTM, and that his two biggest suspects were Yos2 and CTD. I might have to reread the posts surrounding this, because I can't offhand remember him expressing direct suspicion of OTM until this post (since his last list before this had OTM as a Cryptologist), but both of these placements look very off in accordance to his words throughout the game.

I take it this is the positions Yos2 assigned at the beginning of the game? I'll assume as much, though I wish Pooks had just posted it in-thread so anybody reading the game could know where things stand.

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 21-25

Important question. OTM, have you changed your protection away from Xdaamno since 586/588 post (I have noticed Xdaamno has died as protown during my reading)? Also, would you mind extrapolating on this post? Early game, you called ABR your effective 'mason buddy', and now you are telling Xdaamno not to "have his mind made up already". Could you explain why you feel these situations are different?

[ibaesha]

^^ PJ makes Ibby look lazy.

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 26-30

Your still there, protecting either me or SpamBot. You should switch targets every hour. What do you think ?

Bad

bad

bad

. I don't know if ABR knew this, but I have talked with Pooky and this is the absolute

worst

thing a bodyguard can do in this game. From my understanding, if the scum and a bodyguard target the same person in the same hour, whoever sent in the action first takes precedence. That might be somewhat incorrect, but at the very least, if somebody sent in the action on an

hour

before the other, they take precedence. Hard to explain in words, so here's what would happen in this strategy:

Hour One

Bodyguard: Protect X
Mafia: Target X

Hour Two

Bodyguard: Protect Y
Mafia: [Processing Kill]

Hour Three

Bodyguard: Protect X
Mafia: [Processing Kill]

Hour Four

Bodyguard: Protect Y
Mafia: Kill goes through on X

Now, the problem is – even if the Bodyguard decided to continue protecting X during Hour 4, the Mafia kill would

still

go through on X – because their kill was sent on X before the bodyguard last protected X. In other words, switching who the bodyguard protects just means they cannot protect

anybody

, since it takes multiple turns to kill In order for a bodyguard protection to work, they have to be in that position and protect that person before and up until the point of the mafia kill.

We might want clarification on this, but this is my understanding of the mechanic.

[petroleumjelly]

Bah, forget that. I was under the impression that all roles went through a "processing" stage, but apparently the scum can send in the kill whenever they want, but their target will not die until the allotted hour. So long as the bodyguard sends in their target before the mafia sends in their final target, they will be protected and bodyguard will die. So basically, if the bodyguard switches targets every Hour, so long as the mafia sends in their kill an Hour before their allotted time, the bodyguard will be undermined. So it's still a bad plan, but for slightly different reasons.

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 31-35

With the knowledge of the computer hacking and order sending, ABR's posts 791 to 795 almost look like a last-minute confirmation that switching EyceKing [me] from my job would indeed disrupt the pressuring of the FBI.

FoS: Albert B. Rampage

, the timing of this discussion does not sit well with me.

I will have to read the exchange from posts [868] to [875] have me confused enough that I am noting it specifically so that I will go back and read it again once I get a better grasp on who was doing what.

[petroleumjelly]

Pages 36-40

OTM actually mentions something here I agree with – I was wondering why CDB was acting so frantic about 'reading the first post', because saying 'I didn't get a PM' doesn't give away any information whatsoever, since (from what I understand) all townspeople didn't get a PM to start off the game – i.e. all townspeople

are

townies, and they only gain abilities by being assigned them by the director.

At the very least, if Yos2 is scum and faked the hacking, from my understanding the scum nightkill fits the time-frame. If the scum had killed at the end of Hour 4 (on the only "speculation" Pooky would accept as feasible), they could not kill again until Hour 8. I assume a hack would work the same way – if the kill had occured Hour 7, I would hope the town would be after Yos2 immediately. Note: the Guardian/Yos2 debate kinda goes over this. I doubt scum could both hack and nightkill at the same time – that would be utterly disgusting.

I am still getting confused with how "Hours" work, and when roles can do stuff. *shakes fist*

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Regardless of his alignment, I think he is playing badly – I don't understand how his suspicions have progressed at all, nor do I agree with his reasoning very often. Some posts from him seem good, and other ones just leave me wondering what the heck he was thinking while writing them. Also, friendly advice: stop saying "I'm a townie" all the time. It is just annoying, and that's about the only purpose it serves.

[petroleumjelly]

And these last pages have me confused. I haven't been paying close attention to who has been doing what during what hours, so I will need to read pretty much all of 41-present again. I'll have to take notes specifically for what people have claimed to be doing what hours and whether or not things conflict before I can comment on it with any sort of confidence.

I would also like to see Yos in the office - preferably such that I can talk to him on AIM. I've claimed all my actions (except for what I'm doing Hour 8), but I think I can get caught up on the game and get myself straight if I can squeeze the Director directly.

[Kinetic]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Regardless of his alignment, I think he is playing badly – I don't understand how his suspicions have progressed at all, nor do I agree with his reasoning very often. Some posts from him seem good, and other ones just leave me wondering what the heck he was thinking while writing them. Also, friendly advice: stop saying "I'm a townie" all the time. It is just annoying, and that's about the only purpose it serves.

You hit the nail on the head there imo. He seems to make radical leaps with little to no basis, and what he does give isn't very substantial. He also expects that everyone should disregard any behavior he puts forth that seems suspicious because he considers himself a confirmed townie yet the facts don't line up.

Either way, at this point we're at the deadline. If I am reading this correctly we have three real life days (or less) before we lose a game lynch.

There seems to be a choice here, FA or Guardian, and I cannot fathom the argument against FA except that he has an interesting play style. At the very least his play style isn't needlessly disruptive like Albert's.

Maybe the main reason I don't find FA scummy is because I have extensive experience in RPing in forums in other settings, and in this game it just adds more to the flavor. Pooky is going all out on ever mod post and I like to think that FA is adding to that flavor.

[petroleumjelly]

From what I understand, the argument against FA is only partly based on his role-playing. I don't find it scummy on it's own - if you care to read Verbose 2 Mafia [large themed game], I role-played the whole time as a Satanic Nun, who was a Mason for the town. But I

also

stayed on topic in that game, and worked in the role-playing around what I actually had to say, whereas many of FA's comments just to be for the sake of role-playing and "how can you be suspicious of

me?

".

The main bone with FA was ChannelDelibird's early post, where he seems frantic on "not giving away power roles". But that doesn't make sense - I think all townspeople are just "townies", and only get abilities from the assigned roles. Therefore, all townspeople didn't get a role PM - so saying as much isn't giving anything away. All this is indicative that CDB has a higher chance than normal to have received a role PM, which implicates that he is scum.

[Kinetic]

PJ- Although OTM brought that up earlier, I didn't quite see it that way... hmmm. However I think what CDB might have been doing was saying not to do what Guardian or Xdaa did (by saying the didn't get PMs) because it would give the mafia the idea to either say that too or to lurk until prodded and come back with a convenient 'town' excuse. (Which is, imo, what Guardian did after he saw Xdaamno do it)

And I think if that is the only thing against him, the case against Guardian is much stronger.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I call bullshit on UA.

Many of us have already cast our suspicious on FA. Yos, you have to put both me and FA in field agent roles.

[UltimaAvalon]

I call bullshit on UA.

My. What a compelling and all-doubt-removing rebuttal. Care to let us know why, after all the sense you've made lately, why I'm the one who spews cow feces from various orifices?

[Albert B. Rampage]

It is fairly certain that all the late-comers are town.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm. Interesting.

Do we want to try to make someone else FBI liason, or might we be better off just sticking with the roles that do something every hour, the SIA's and field agents, and thus are harder to disrupt?

[Yosarian2]

ABR has just said the thing I was wondering about. Interested in why Yos seemed leery to even bother with the White House Liaison.

Eh...not leery, perhaps, but out of all the roles I assigned that seemed like the weakest, in that it didn't really do anything by itself and basically could only in an ideal situation get us at most 2 extra FBI investigations, and a role that only gets 2 investigations all game is probably weaker then the other roles. Not a bad role, but it seemed kind of borderline to me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yos, you should put both me and FA in field agent roles to lesson everyone's suspicions.

[UltimaAvalon]

How does putting people in the Field Agent Position lessen suspicion?

Well, we must either lynch Eyceking or Albert, and Albert is much scummier to me I think
But wait. Albert is a Field Agent.
Oh is he? Hmm. That lowers his suspicion level dramatically. Lets lynch Eyceking
"Hooray!"

Ya....doesn't work that way.

Also, no, it isn't 100% certain that all 3 of us are town. I'm sure scum was quite overjoyed to find one or two people to latch on after the first prods were given out, and the three latecomers announced their arrivals

[Albert B. Rampage]

The most suspicious player would be in deputy director, and the remaining suspicious characters are to be put in field agent work where they can't falsify information.

[Yosarian2]

Pages 21-25

Important question. OTM, have you changed your protection away from Xdaamno since 586/588 post (I have noticed Xdaamno has died as protown during my reading)? Also, would you mind extrapolating on this post? Early game, you called ABR your effective 'mason buddy', and now you are telling Xdaamno not to "have his mind made up already". Could you explain why you feel these situations are different?

I don't mean to answer for OTM, but I've discussed this with him in private, and I can tell you that (assuming he's told me the truth) it's changed a couple of times since then, PJ.

First, after Yogurt was lynched and we only had 2 field agents, I said in the thread that OTM should pick one of the 2 cops (either the counter-intellegence cop or the FBI liason) and protect him; the theory was that at least that way the scum wouldn't know which cop was protected. He told me by PM that he was protecting the counter-intel person at this point.

Later, during hour 5, after the switch had happened, there was really no point in OTM continuing to protect either cop (as they weren't even cops anymore), so I told him by PM that if he wanted to go out and use the other field agent ability to investigate some site in DC, that that would be a good time to do it.

I haven't talked to him since then, and I'm not sure what he's been doing since then.

Oh, and sure, PJ, I'd be glad to talk to you in private.

PJ, I'd like to see you in my office, please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Switch PetroleumJelly and Kinetic to me and FA.

[Guardian]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Regardless of his alignment, I think he is playing badly

Me too

I don't understand how his suspicions have progressed at all, nor do I agree with his reasoning very often.

Yeah I agree with like half of that.

Some posts from him seem good, and other ones just leave me wondering what the heck he was thinking while writing them.

True.

Also, friendly advice: stop saying "I'm a townie" all the time.

But it is fun, and true .

It is just annoying, and that's about the only purpose it serves.

No, no -- I'm telling you my alignment. That is very important in mafia. .

[Off the Mark]

I haven't talked to him since then, and I'm not sure what he's been doing since then.

hey mod read this post

I've been continuing to investigate sites. I am behind on my results though, I should have a result from the MCI Center by now, but I haven't gotten the email from Pooky.

Hour 5 I investigated the White House, where I am fairly certain there is no bomb.

Hour 6 I investigated the Library of Congres - nothing there.

Hour 7 I investigated the MCI Center - still waiting for result.