Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[Palkia]

fuck you i've done more in a page than you and your useless walls could ever achieve

[Nikanor]

Jake from State Farm has been prodded.

Stop posting in annoying colours.

[TheReverend]

arceus is now a town read for me. I like the tone of his recent posts.

rune is still scummy. He seems way too happy that I spazzed and was forced to back off him. He's moaning at me for OMGUS'ing those who attack me, while he does exactly that when people attack him. The instant I back off him, suddenly I'm a town read. Where the hell did that come from? Just because I said I was distracted? I can make that up as scum when I get caught bullshitting reads. He's far too quick to accept my position.

Yeah I'm still scumreading rune.

[Rune]

Both Elyse and Dan thought I was scum and I did not attack them. I voted for dan at a later point for obviously different reasons. Several times recently I indicated I thought you could be town, and just didn't like your play. I called scum when you made an obvious mistake. I'm willing to believe it was a mistake for now unless you slip later. Your judgement is delayed, not called off. You also said you would post about it later, which I still expect

I am shocked you town read arceus. It's an obvious load of bs.

[Elyse]

55 wasn't directed toward you; it's a pre-emptive answer to anyone who might inquire as to why I voted Arceus for asking, but not you.

Why are you thinking about what other people will ask you?

Because I'm generally regarded as scummy no matter my alignment, I've gotten defensive over it.

Deal with it. Honestly people will think your scummy no matter your alignment in lots of games. Being super defensive about is only really needed if you truly are scum.

Basically this. Still not liking Brain at all.

I don't like how you're more concerned with how my posts reflect on your scumminess as opposed to how my posts reflect on my own alignment.

Like, you strike me as newb!scum who every time they see someone who has a post scumreading them is like OMG THIS PERSON IS SCUMREADING ME I AM GOING TO BE LYNCHED I BETTER DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Right now you're laying the groundwork for an RC!Vote, which is fine in general, RC always gets voted D1, but you're doing it not because you think RC is scum, but because you're concerned with self defence and your post essentially states that.

There's a slight chance you're just newb!town who is overly concerned with how they're perceived but right now you're my biggest scumread.

(so why am I voting BBT? figure it out.)

I realllly like this string from RC. I agree with most of it and it seems like town!RC. I don't like his Dannflor vote though, nor do I think Dannflor was calling RC not credible.

@Dan: Are you actually comparing my posting to PB right now? That seems to be overkill and extremely selective.

@RC - I am reading through your game where you hammer BBT. I immediately notice that your post count was lower to being with but the overall quality and level of interest in your posts was significantly greater there (at least in D1). Are you able to explain that?

That being said, I do see some immediate similarities between BBT's behaviour in each game, but I'm not willing to say that it is his scum playstyle as opposed to his general playstyle. You obviously would have a stronger opinion on this, that's just my initial comment.

It seems you are focusing too much on post length rather than content. PB and you both are fencesitting and giving out null reads, so it's not a stretch for Dannflor to compare your posting.

Yeah I must admit I laughed when elyse said she hopes this games isn't full of walls, then posts a wall.

It's not my fault!!!

Re: Dannflor's L-1 vote on Brain - I didn't notice it was L-1 either. I thought the switch onto Brain was kind of awkward, but I don't think he had ulterior motives by not saying "L-1".

I do not like Havoc's post at all. I want him to explain why he thinks one of RC/Rune is scum. It seems like a bullshit grouping to me and I don't like the (duh) next to PB. It makes it look like PB is an easy lynch.

From the discussion that you two were having on the previous page and on this one, I got the vibe that even if you didnt necessarily hate each other or love each other, you definitely were not working together as town should. This led me to think that one of you is mafia, and tbh the logic in your posts recently plus the fact that you called out dannflor makes you less scummy as well.

My town read on Dan was mostly from the fact that I think a mafia would be more careful not to put someone into L-1. Not much else to go on for me, as the rest of his reads didnt really reveal much, in my mind, as to his alignment.

Thanks! I think I will be doing this in the future for all my reads, makes things more organized.

Ehhhh. I don't like this justification much.

I don't like Arceus' initial catch up, but we'll see when he posts his overall thoughts.

@TheReverend
Rune is right in that you changed your BBT read after Arceus' post - not Rune's. You said one of Arceus/BBT is scum and then concluded it was Arceus. I am liking Rune more and more here.

You changed your stance on him after a post from Arceus, not from me. You're deflecting so hard here it's unbelievable.

ffs so it's me who's drinking stupid juice.

This is why I shouldn't check mafia when I'm with the family. I don't have my notes to refer to, and I'm doing other stuff (such as watching awful tv with my 5 y/o niece). Hence, I'm getting confused about my reads with you and arceus.

fwiw if I were scum then it's highly unlikely that I'd bother to tunnel you based on stupid when I have an excuse to not even bother posting.

So make of that what you will. Meanwhile, I'll reassess tomorrow when I'm at home and fully engaged.

pedit - is this a private joke? Is that a serious vote or is this your personal RVS? And were you aware of the VC when you made that vote?

Hm. Ok I guess. Still not liking how you can't keep your reads straight but at least you owned up to it rather than continue to bs.

TheRev is pretty solidly town. Can't say I agree 100% with his reads, but he ain't scum.

Why?

@Arceus
I think your case on Rune is pretty poor. I don't fault him for scumreading the people with the biggest wagons considering there are a large number of inactive people as well. His read progression makes sense as well and he's not voting for the main wagon all the time, especially considering Brain is really the only main wagon that has formed. BBT's early wagon was fluff. Your points are mainly invalid.

What are your thoughts on everyone else?

TheRev is pretty solidly town. Can't say I agree 100% with his reads, but he ain't scum.

I like you!

based solely on brain making two posts on this very page with an avatar and posting style distinctively different than mine

UNVOTE:

for a god you're dumb as fuck.

town, sure

but dumb.ass.fuck

Why is he town?

It looks to me like Arceus knew you were replacing Dannflor and just made that up so he could townread you.

I am wary of Brain's post 12, but this could very easily be a joke post on the first page, so I don't give too much thought to it immediately.

I think that Reverend's self vote on post 15 caused some interesting, dialogue, most notable in posts 18,30, and 33. The result of this for me is a very slight scumread / anti-town on BBT and the opinon that Reverend should be interesting to play with throughout this game - null read for now.

PB makes a poor point in 43 which gives me a slight scumread, but BBT responds well to it. PB then makes post 53 which seems overly aggressive, but then in 55 and 57 backtracks / clarifies, so I am more inclined to go with it not being a serious post.

I want to see more from RadiantCowbells, as so far the posts have seem very reactionary and not too analytical, but ultimately I don't have a read either way at this point.

I like Dannflor's post in 82 for the most part [including sarcasm] although I think he is intentionally ignoring some of my previous posts in which I already answered some of the questions he asked - this makes me feel like he could be trying to jump on a seemingly logical bandwagon and so I have a slight scumread. However, since multiple people have brought up the scumminess of discussing multiple scum-teams so early, I will be willing to drop my scumread given a decent explanation as to my mistakes / misunderstandings of optimal strategy so far.

I also like Dannflor's post in 85 as well, which makes me less confident in a scumread, but at this point there isn't exactly enough content for me to be particularly confident either way.

In general, I am happy with my vote for the moment as I believe it has potential to add to the discussion, but I will strongly consider changing it depending on how the next few pages go.

These bolded paragraphs are bad.
How can a scum read make a good point and help develop a sim read on someone else?
It's almost like, you weren't ever really scum reading him.
Also note how Rev's null.

I think it would be more scummy if Rune ignored something a scumread did that was townie or tried to twist it into something scummy. You know, kind of like what you're doing.

@Rune
Be careful using other players' ongoing games as reasons to see if they are active or not here.
Why would your read on me change to neutral if I didn't post today?
Why are you townreading TheReverend? You had a scumread on him in 271. I could see why you aren't scumreading him as much or even a null read after he explained he mixed you and Arceus up, but I don't see a townread on him from your perspective.

@PB
Explain your vote now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Arceus

His push on Rune is horrible, he never delivered the content he said he would, and his interactions with Palkia make me nervous. Their reciprocative townreads on each other are unfounded.

PB is also a good D1 lynch. Everyone seems to be scumreading him, but the's the kind of player that if I was his scumbuddy, I would totally bus him.

Havoc is probably scum too.

RC is my strongest townread. Rune has changed to weaker a townread. I was scumreading him, but I think he just had a bumpy start. He is obviously very involved in the game, actively scumhunting, and generally doing everything he can that is pro-town. Most of his scumminess can be attributed to being new.

P-edit: Uhh I don't really see that. I get your point about Rune's townread on you, but I don't like Arceus' tone at all and if you look at his arguments, they don't make sense.

[TheReverend]

P-edit: Uhh I don't really see that. I get your point about Rune's townread on you, but I don't like Arceus' tone at all and if you look at his arguments, they don't make sense.

I guess it doesn't help that I'm scumreading rune still. I mean if rune is scum, arceus looks a whole lot better. It could be blinkers that have me towning arceus. But his tone has a dinstinct air of idgaf, rather than someone who is trying to appease.

Of course rune looks better after the exchange with me. I derped, so it wasn't exactly difficult for him to get the upper hand in that little battle. That doesn't make him town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright.

VOTE: Havoc

Everything he does feels tactical and insincere.

I stand by my scumread on Dannflor, I townread PB, I'm neutral to rune now.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake from State Farm has been prodded.

no I wasn't as I have no PM from you.

I will try and catch up tomorrow

[Rune]

@Elyse

I don't see why I shouldn't use overall site activity relative to in-game activity as a mild indicator of lurking, but I'll keep it in mind and let you know I'm not putting too much weight into it in my reads. I just think it's relevant to point out.

My read on you would change to neutral if you hadn't posted today because you have exactly 6 posts to this point, none of which have given me a scumread (in fact, the opposite). But if I can't trust you to post when you say you will post when you have almost no posts to begin with, I refuse to reward you with a townread. Obviously if you came back tomorrow and gave a reasonable excuse for not posting when you said you would and I believed you, that would be ok too.

Upon reflection I'm not sure I explained how my reads were meant to be read well enough. I labeled the last section as "townish" not "town" and specified at the end that I really am looking at D1 lynch candidates. I mentioned several times beforehand my reluctance to scumread Rev, but if he was going to blatantly manipulate my words like that, it seemed like an easy tell. However, I think it is perfectly plausible that he just made a mistake, since he owned up to it really quickly as you mentioned. Since in general his playstyle here is wildly aggressive and without great logic (as evidenced by his admitting that he has blinders for arceus despite the obvious ridiculousness of his posts against me), I think it isn't too hard to imagine this is a mistake he could have realistically made. That being said, it is also possible he is hiding as scum behind poor town play, but I don't think he is a good D1 lynch candidate at all, so I'd rather put him borderline town.

You'll also notice that my neutral reads are really people who I don't have a read on (I did specify it was largely a category for people who I had little or no information on). It might have been appropriate to put them in a separate section instead of in the middle between scum and town (I did that to keep convention, but I expected the meaning to be clear based on the people in it)

I really like my top 3 scumreads though right now, and I like the order that they are in. Generally I don't like to commit to associative reads D1 but Arceus jumping in so soon after Dan scumslips and replaces out really seems to me to be his way of trying to bring the attention off of Dan/Palkia, by attacking me without having to defend Dan and thus he thinks he will avoid showing his association. Otherwise, it would have been optimal for Arceus to simply lie low, which would have been easy. I think Palkia's annoying play right now gives absolutely no reason to consider any other lynch candidate without strong evidence. You probably stand a decent chance of convincing me that Arceus is a good lynch, and I'll definitely consider it, but I'm hoping that his posts improve quickly or at least make more contextual sense.

@Rev

Can you see why this could hurt the town? Just because someone agrees with your points, doesn't make them town. Just because they disagree, doesn't make them scum. Arceus' argument is poor, regardless of my alignment. Admitting the possibility of having blinkers on makes me sad, because it is an easy way for you to avoid being read. It is definitely not pro-town to have 'blinkers'.

You're right that our exchange does not make me town. Your 'derp' should reflect poorly on the town's perception of you, not positively on its perception of me. So I think you missed the point there.

[Rune]

@RC

Your vote was already on Havoc and he hasn't posted since you voted for him in post 254, but I guess you feel really really strongly about it [or did you meant to vote for someone else?]

Why do you townread PB?

[RadiantCowbells]

I honestly don't remember voting him.

[RadiantCowbells]

haha I must have originally done that vote when I was plastered, forgotten about it, then reread the same posts from him and thought he was scum again.

[Prolapsed Brain]

But if I can't trust you to post when you say you will post when you have almost no posts to begin with, I refuse to reward you with a townread.

wtf

Seriously What. The. Fuck.

Also,

unvote

VOTE: Rune

...for the highly telling scumslip in that same post.

[Rune]

@RC,

Seriously, why do you townread PB?

[Rune]

@MOD: Would it be unreasonable to request that vote counts (or at least links to them) are edited into one of your intro posts? (preferably #0 or #3)

[TheDudeAbides]

I really should have gone vla. Anyway, I should be able to read in 24 hours.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

164 - Elyse, why did you choose to vote Rune over PB?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

179 - Oh dear. I assure you you will not read me correctly based on meta. Especially after just one game.

187 - RC, Rune is your biggest scum read, you were voting me and now you're voting Dannflor. You seem to think you have found the entire scum team already. Why are you not voting your biggest scum read?

This attack on Dannflor is weak; based on semantics which is more commonly used by scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

214/215 - Remember these two posts RC when you see I'm town. Remember what I just told you at the end of the game we just finished as well.

You'll see I was right.

You think you can meta read me based on one game? There are players who use meta almost exclusively to read people and still cannot read me correctly.

You haven't noticed jack shit. You scum read my play-style and personality and not what is actually alignment indicative. The sooner you realise this, the better.

[TheReverend]

If I'm townreading rune, then he's happy with me. If I'm scumreading him, he's not. He's not looking for scum. He's trying to stay alive.

[Rune]

If you're scumreading me for obviously terrible reasons and misrepresentation of facts, I am unhappy with you. Otherwise I wish your play was better but lean town. I've repeated this many times.

[TheReverend]

Ok. I'm still unconvinced by your sincerity.

[RadiantCowbells]

BBT, chill that insecurity of yours.

Just because I caught you in one game, doesn't make you a bad player.

You'll see I was right.

You'll see I don't care.

The main reason I voted you today was because I don't feel like playing with you when you're acting like this.

Continue to act like this and I'll just policy you without worrying about town/scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Havoc voterino pls.

[RadiantCowbells]

Havoc (4 posts, poor-ish reads, and not a great defence of them - lurking as he is more active in another game now)

So Rune, consider switching your vote to Havoc with me?

Radioactive

Is that me?


As non-consecutive non-odd non-even non-night non-day cop, I can confirm that PB is town and we should all get to lynching Havoc.