NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[Xayzeck]

Sorry you rolled scum this game.

VOTE: Xayzeck

weird, I never recalled you ever expressing that you scumread me

are you sheeping someone because this seems a bit out of nowhere to me

[Xayzeck]

I've concluded that the Bella slot is town. I loved her intuition and thought progression - she seemed like she was genuinely sorting the game with every post. She also defended one of the only points against her uncountered (1360), and, more importantly, was scumreading KC, and now has a KC counterwagon building on her.

Isn't it funny how every counterwagonee to KC has been scumreading her? And isn't it funnier how Peace and KC have been on both those wagons?

Your reads are based on who scumreads KC or who KC scumreads. That's pretty bad, even if she's scum.

I skimmed your ISO for posts on Bellascum and the most substantial thing that stood out was how you interpreted some of her posts as lightbussing KC, and so if KC is scum then she would be scum too.

If I missed the mainbulk of Bellascum case please link it to me, I kinda think Bella is town just by skimming her ISO, the scummiest thing I could pick out would be her lack of following up(I'm not even sure if this is 100% true, I just skimmed), but it's not like her questions are entirely superficial and are thrown there to look like she's just scumhunting.

[RationalMadman]

Not sure but IF they are i'm certian they'd bus their death smei-clears bella.

So how does that validate a Bella vote over a Klingon one?

Because my townreads arevoting them and a null read is too who is being bw on.

[Ricastle]

But your actual reasoning for thinking Bella is scum entirely relies on Klingon being scum. Do you agree with the reasoning of those you are sheeping?

[Grib]

Oh, forgot to mention: I picked games that Xayzeck was a VT in (no PR games) since that's what Garmr claimed.

Pretty sure you picked a scumgame

Bluh, the first link is a scumgame; that's my bad.

I tried to pick more recent games since old ones are probably more out of date.

[elusive]

I'm also not a fan of him suddenly stating that he feels "meh" towards KlingonCelt. No, want to kill someone? Work yourself into a pristine fury and make it clear that their bones will gleam in the afterquake of your intensity.

And I hate it that you are ignoring my explanation and STILL not explaining why Ric's sk hunting was scummier today than it was yesterday.

I found Ricastle to be scummy on day one as well, see posts #247, #335, #381, #420. The dramatis personae was more active on day one and Ricastle wasn't the only player acting weird. Today, based on his weird Skold push and then weirder reaction to the flip he seems to be enmeshing himself more fully in a scummy suit. A few other people are still townreading him, but some of those like PeaceBringer have been acting strange as well and have moved to my scummy bin. Ricastle's reasoning is subpar among other issues I have with his play so therefore I'd like to see him on the noose.

So, Nero, will you be able to provide reasons for your town vs. scum reads now? The explanation can simply be about a post or reasoning they used that was really good.

[elusive]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61108 (scum)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60334 (town)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60635 (town)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60385 (Hippie is scum, right?)

Keep in mind I had to skim these games pretty hard in order to gather information at a decent pace.

So I looked at these games plus part of the KC one on USMB. Unless someone can make a coherent case on why they think she's scum, I'm not buying what's been "sold" so far on her. There is something slightly different here but I'm sure those with the ability to infer can figure out why that may or may not be the case. I don't like her Bellaphant vote though and want that reads list.

On Bella, she seemed to lean town before she replaced out, so agree with Xayzeck there. I read one scum game of hers (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6737175) and I feel like she's a lot more "nervous" as scum.

Yo Nero can you like post scumreads and I'll iso them

Why is so much of your ISO revolving around Nero? Why?

People who I don't have a strong read on: RationalMadman, davesaz, PointyBagelS, Boonskiies
People who are testing my patience: Nero, Creative

[Nero Cain]

Unless someone can make a coherent case on why they think she's scum, I'm not buying what's been "sold" so far on her

Like I said, being selective in your scumhunting is a scumtell. Yeah, its somewhat plausible that Celt is just bad town but its not like this case is some bizarre craziness like you and Peace are pushing it as. From my point of view, you guys are either scum that knows Celt is town or PB is echoing you so doesn't look as bad. Or you could just be wrong as shit or maybe Celt is the Peace buddy, idk.

[Nero Cain]

So, Nero, will you be able to provide reasons for your town vs. scum reads now? The explanation can simply be about a post or reasoning they used that was really good.

Maybe, I've already explained my scumreads. I think this is one of the problems I have with you, you seem very distant from the game at times. I mean you'll come in and post things that don't exactly make sense-its almost like you are playing another game than I am.

Maybe I'm just a little salty that you are treating me as scum when I've done nothing scummy so it looks a lil' chainsawish so I'm a little

But Xay/Peace and House are deff scum. And in my mind that leaves you, Celt and Bagels as the most likely scum. Already talked about you and Celt. Bagels mostly for having House as null which I think alot of scum list their buddies as null sometimes, its not very strong though. I'm agreeing that Castles skhunting was strange and sure, maybe it comes from scum but I think it would have been scummier if there were a sk in this game, wich I guess is still possible but both kills would have to be stopped last night and I feel its somewhat unlikely.

[Creative]

Elusive

Spoiler:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61108 (scum)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60334 (town)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60635 (town)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60385 (Hippie is scum, right?)

Keep in mind I had to skim these games pretty hard in order to gather information at a decent pace.

So I looked at these games plus part of the KC one on USMB. Unless someone can make a coherent case on why they think she's scum, I'm not buying what's been "sold" so far on her. There is something slightly different here but I'm sure those with the ability to infer can figure out why that may or may not be the case. I don't like her Bellaphant vote though and want that reads list.

On Bella, she seemed to lean town before she replaced out, so agree with Xayzeck there. I read one scum game of hers (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6737175) and I feel like she's a lot more "nervous" as scum.

Yo Nero can you like post scumreads and I'll iso them

Why is so much of your ISO revolving around Nero? Why?

People who I don't have a strong read on: RationalMadman, davesaz, PointyBagelS, Boonskiies
People who are testing my patience: Nero, Creative

That's your problem, not mine, i really don´t care for your threats.

[Creative]

Sorry you rolled scum this game.

VOTE: Xayzeck

weird, I never recalled you ever expressing that you scumread me

are you sheeping someone because this seems a bit out of nowhere to me

You have lurked a lot, i agreed with the points made on you, some people tried to discredit what was being pointed out and you hadn´t adressed those, i still think the way you answered to the pressure is weak.
Your last posts gravitate between explanations for being a lurker and asking other people things wich seems deflective.

Can you post something about where are u at on the game, like comments on interactions, readlists, that kinda of stuff?

[Grib]

Xayzeck, you're basically scumreading Boon for the exact same thing you're doing. That's something you didn't respond to that I'd say is a little important.

[PointYBagelS]

I want to hear from others on what they think of the argument me and Pointy are having so far and weigh in with their opinions.

Does his reply make you think he's townier?

Not really, although this is kinda meta, I feel a town person would really claw into every single point I made, not single out some and leave out others.

Another thing is I feel like his reason for voting me is made up, the closest thing he had in his post that voted me was I wasn't scum hunting at the time.

From an outside perspective i can see that.

His other points though I really don't like.

A lot of your points are very repetitive, I didn't feel the need to write the same reply multiple times. It doesn't help my opinion of you that you expected me to individually reply to a bunch of points that all said basically the same thing.

Also it appears we are using different definitions of meta, you are using it to refer to "the" metagame, whereas I have been using it to refer to a person's metagame. I don't really have an issue with the kind of reasoning you appear to dislike. "town acts like this, scum acts like that" is pretty much the foundation of scumhunting. What don't you like about this concept?

Anyway it's obvious vamp isn't getting lynched today. I'll move to a different scumread with how close we are to deadline.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xayzeck

[elusive]

So, Nero, will you be able to provide reasons for your town vs. scum reads now? The explanation can simply be about a post or reasoning they used that was really good.

Maybe, I've already explained my scumreads. I think this is one of the problems I have with you, you seem very distant from the game at times. I mean you'll come in and post things that don't exactly make sense-its almost like you are playing another game than I am.

Maybe I'm just a little salty that you are treating me as scum when I've done nothing scummy so it looks a lil' chainsawish so I'm a little

But Xay/Peace and House are deff scum. And in my mind that leaves you, Celt and Bagels as the most likely scum. Already talked about you and Celt. Bagels mostly for having House as null which I think alot of scum list their buddies as null sometimes, its not very strong though. I'm agreeing that Castles skhunting was strange and sure, maybe it comes from scum but I think it would have been scummier if there were a sk in this game, wich I guess is still possible but both kills would have to be stopped last night and I feel its somewhat unlikely.

1. It's true I'm a little distant in this game, I'm tired of drama, being involved in drama etc. There's also the fact that some of the people I'm trying to question are AWOL or not really posting. My ire against lurkers and the obstinate has been drained by other worlds so the apocaplyptic one is safe I guess from wrath for now.

2. I feel that certain flips in this game will yield more info then others:
a. Nero -> House, Boonskiies, Klingoncelt, Ricastle
b. House -> Nero, Klingoncelt, Grib,
c. Klingoncelt -> Nero, House, Bellaphant, Ricastle, etc
d. Vampirate -> Ricastle, PeaceBringer
e. Ricastle -> elusive, Grib, Klingoncelt, House, Nero, etc

Also, I just don't agree with Ricastle that there wasn't reason to FOS you over the Boon and then House things. I found those to be weird then and now. I also don't know what your follow up on Boon (based on his few posts) has been. You went from trying to murder his little llama into a fur coat to what? Then there's House who's been kind of mellow and you're hard scumreading him and Xayzeck (who Grib is also reading as scum), and PeaceBringer but I don't see a concerted effort to take them down or to make mafia life difficult for them.

I don't have a strong read on House but he's also wily but if I were scumreading him or trying to figure him out more, I'd be pushing more buttons there.

Things I still need to do: Meta dive Ricastle (he was in one of the Bella games too), and ISO Xayzeck and see how Grib's case on him stands. Generally, I'm biased against lurker and they severely hamper my enjoyment of a game and this game has one too many either lurkers or replaces ++.

Nero, once or if my drama well revives itself - then you'll know what salt is. For realz.

[elusive]

But Xay/Peace and House are deff scum. And in my mind that leaves you, Celt and Bagels as the most likely scum. Already talked about you and Celt. Bagels mostly for having House as null which I think alot of scum list their buddies as null sometimes, its not very strong though. I'm agreeing that Castles skhunting was strange and sure, maybe it comes from scum but I think it would have been scummier if there were a sk in this game, wich I guess is still possible but both kills would have to be stopped last night and I feel its somewhat unlikely.

Just to clarify your strongest scum reads are: Xayzeck, PeaceBringer, and House.
Most likely scum are: Klingoncelt, PointyBagels, and me with Pointy being a sort of lean scum rather then full on scum.

As for setup speculation, the reasons we may or may not have had no kills could be many. SK, if a lurker, might have forgotten to put their kill in (I've seen this happen). Or both mafia and sk tried to kill the same target who is BP. Or "..." Or "..."

I'm not a fan of setup spec unless concrete information. It's even possible that Ricastle or whoever the SK may be chose to NK to mess with town. A lot is possible in this wide world.

My scumhunting often involved behavior or mindsets. When I can see a townie mindset or trajectory that person reads townie to me and when I can't then scummy. It's not foolproof but then few things are.

[House]

Xayzeck, you're basically scumreading Boon for the exact same thing you're doing. That's something you didn't respond to that I'd say is a little important.

Eh, I've done that as town before. It's easy to do because one knows their own role but they don't know that of others.

[Grib]

I still think he should have addressed it.

[Ricastle]

Also, I just don't agree with Ricastle that there wasn't reason to FOS you over the Boon and then House things. I found those to be weird then and now.

That's not what I said...Klingon FoSed Nero for a specific angle House was equally guilty of. She accepts this, as is evident in 1384, and used custom as an excuse to get out of it. It's bottom-line selective scumhunting.

Who is your top choice for lynch right now? Because it doesn't appear to be Xayzeck.

Things I still need to do: Meta dive Ricastle

Good luck with that, bub.

[Klingoncelt]

...

So I looked at these games plus part of the KC one on USMB. Unless someone can make a coherent case on why they think she's scum, I'm not buying what's been "sold" so far on her. There is something slightly different here but I'm sure those with the ability to infer can figure out why that may or may not be the case. I don't like her Bellaphant vote though and want that reads list.

The reads list will have to wait until Saturday or Sunday.

I can read along with the games and participate minimally, but I won't be able to do any real focusing until I'm back from V/LA next weekend.

[Klingoncelt]

Oh - and I unvoted at least until Belle's replaced.

[Vampirate]

This is a reply to 1654. I'm not quoting it because of how long it is.

Responses:

4: They tend to go hand in hand
5: You call me a liar and then say something like this with no hint of irony? There is no meta in my argument against you.
6: As elusive said, once the skold wagon started he posted like twice.
8: If you do then you are wrong.
9: do you know what the word "appears" means?
15: Sure you're scumhunting now, after I called you on not doing it.


On House:
I didn't like the Skold wagon and I've made no secret of it. House led the skold wagon. He's on my potential scum list for that, but right now he's not really triggering my scum radar for other reasons.

House hard defending your slot was more of a vehicle to push his own wagon, while your hard defense of Ricastle was solely to stop the wagon. These are not the same thing like you claim they are.

I want a response to 5. That is a complete and blatant lie. Why are you trying to construe a hypothetical statement as meta?

Well here's the thing.

4. There's a difference, and voting someone just because they are acting anti-town is bad town play imo
5.

I don't understand why a town-Vampirate wouldn't think the same of Skold, who also lurked through most of his wagon.

It's implied here you know town-Vampirate's meta, that's the way I took it anyways.

6. Skold's wagon didn't really pick up traction until Skold voted House. And Skold stood out like a sore thumb in his posts at the time. Did Skold lurk, yes but it wasn't the reason why he had a wagon to begin with.

8. This is a blank statement as you'd say the same thing regardless of what alignment you have i'm assuming.

9. And I made it crystal clear at the time when I was reading Xay I had him as anti-town, not scum.

15. As to if I was scumhunting or not at the time I can see how someone not me could view this.


Also, what I still don't get is you're using someone I voted for (Skold) to use it as a reason of why i'm scummy for not doing the same to others. I voted Skold for survival, thus wasn't scumreading him but wanted to stay alive, I didn't vote him for his behavior or lurkiness.

Xay i've already discussed, though I admit, I may need to read him more.

As for your opinion that House did his to start his wagon and I did mine to stop a wagon i'll repeat what you said in response to Bold 8.

"If you do then you are wrong."

[Grib]

Last I checked, there were 17 of us alive. Where is everyone?

[Ricastle]

I'm at the gallows waiting for Klingon to arrive.

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

Xayzeck

(5):

Nero Cain, Grib, davesaz, Creative, PointYBagelS

Klingoncelt

(3):

Boonskiies, Vampirate, Ricastle

Bellaphant

(2):

Rubicon, RationalMadman

RationalMadman

(2):

Errantparabola, elusive

Nero Cain

(1):

House

elusive

(1):

PeaceBringer

Not Voting

(3):

Bellaphant, Xayzeck, Klingoncelt

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-05-06 11:00:00)

[Shinobi]

Boonskiies has been prodded. This will be his final prod.